Warcraft 3 or "I can't believe there isn't an old threa

The Vault Dweller

The Vault Dweller

always looking for water.
Yeah that's right I did a forum search and didn't find a thread about this...I am severely surprised, because...

OMG so awesome! I'm loving this for all the reasons I love Starcraft and there are too many to count.

I can't quite go into deep, unnecessary explanations so I'll offer some examples. Warcraft 2 had two sides and they were mostly identical units. Command and Conquer had two sides with half of the most of the units being of the same design, but with different stats. Then you had Starcraft...three sides and even more amazingly completely uncomparable differences in units. Now just the vastly different unit abilites made Starcraft awesome and the fact you had three sides instead of two made it what I thought was/is the best RTS ever. Then you've got Warcraft 3. I have four sides all with very different units. It's like Starcraft, but just some more.

Oh and that's not mentioning the added change in heroes. Before it was just gathering and fighting over spots with two resources, minerals and vespene in Starcraft and gold and wood in Warcraft. Now with heros and small encampments of neutral forces there are battles over treasure to boost your hero's abilities as well as fights over unique neutral locations such as mercenary camps, merchant shops, and fountains. Now it pays not just to have bases around resources, but also around neutral areas. This totally expands the usefulness of areas of the map that would otherwise be empty and only there to run through on your way to attack/defend a base.

I just finished the campaign for Warcraft 3 and have since played a few custom games versus the computer. It's hard the computer is very intelligent. I can't wait to play online as well. Not to mention I also have the expansion pack and all those new missions and units.

I'd also like to point out that I have a crap computer yet I can still get the game to run. I do have to turn off all optional graphics settings and set the ones I need to low, but the game still looks great and only slows down on large maps with many players. Just another reason to praise Blizzard.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
WC1, WC2, SC & BW were far superior to WC3 & the frozen throne. the only thing i really love about WC3 & TFT is the towerbuilding maps.
 
I liked WC3 to some extent. I hated the graphics though. And there was too much micromanagement in WC3 for me. Overall SC is a far better game.

Other RTSes I really liked are Age of Empires II (I really liked the unit system) and Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War.
 
I like WC1 the most. Probably because of hours of good memories, but might also be the awesome feeling it had. The orcs had something back then. Something dark and dangerous. Something that wanted to cleanse the lands from humans. Today... meh. It feels more like quests than total war among races. These things matter to me.
 
I was wondering why there would be so much fuss over Starcraft and not about Warcraft 3 and considered that people who would love either came across Starcraft first and became too obsessed with it to move on. That's probably why I can comparably find Warcraft 3 just as good yet can't seem to feel the same way about it.

There are some definite issues. Take the lower supply (90) and the upkeepd Mr. Pastorius mentions. Now mind you I really dislike it, but also like it at the same time. Now given if you harvest more resources and spend them faster you should have a larger force and thus should win. Having to pay a portion of your income to upkeep limits such resource gathering and spending. However I always thought in Starcraft that winning by making more workers and more unit production facilities was too easy since all of it is done on your own terms and never requires any change of plans. Perhaps I just feel that way since I did it often and I know I'm not too good and strategy games and was just exploiting a cheap trick. Thus with W3 upkeep costs puts greater emphasis on using your units wisely. Since you can't outgather and outproduce an opponent as easily you must more efficiently handle those units you have. Mind you I suck at this, but refuse to say it's a bad system since I've always known I'm the guy who only throws his units at the enemy since it's "easier than having the same and using them better" than my opponent.

One other way to look at it is that with upkeep you can win a resource war by staying in "no upkeep" and just defending. Now since your opponent will be willing to go into low or even high upkeep they'll have a much larger force than yours. However if you should use yours for strictly defense than you can survive with your force and defensive structures. Afterwards your opponent is forced to build another large force when they have very little money stockpiled due to high upkeep. You on the other hand have a huge stockpile since you maintained no upkeep. You'll produce more units faster then on and win. At least that's what happens when I win...and when I lose it's because my opponent trumped me with a much larger "high upkeep" force.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
While annoying I liked the upkeep system too. I often had enough units to go into low upkeep which is quite acceptable. You "only" loose 30% of the gold. The worst thing about the game is still the graphics. Why use 3D when StarCraft (and WarCraft II) looked *much* better?
 
Lord Elden said:
Why use 3D when StarCraft (and WarCraft II) looked *much* better?
Click to expand...
Because it's the new thing! You can even rotate the camera! L33t!!1!1!

Yeah, things like that bring me down too...
 
W3 broke my fallout addiction for over a year enough said. The storyline was pretty cool and custom multiplayer games made it fun to play after. I even played a fallout parody of W3 wouldn’t be surprised if someone from this community was responsible



Why use 3D when StarCraft (and WarCraft II) looked *much* better?
Click to expand...

W2 and starcraft looked better? Defiantly not, the zoom and rotating camera made cool angles for battle scenes.
 
I played WC3 quite a bit when it came out. It really is a fun game, if not quite as good as Starcraft. I don't play much anymore, and I only get on battlenet to play DOTA (Defense of the Ancients).
 
This game continues to impress me more and more. I have so much to say and also something contoversial.

There are numerous small things about Warcraft 3 I absolutely love since they're so necessary. The auto-casting for one. I remember playing Warcraft 2 and having to constantly order my Paladins to heal. Not only did this waste time since I had to do it many times through a mission, but also I often couldn't find and click on a unit quickly enough in the heat of battle to save them. The auto-casting not only means I don't have to find target since they do it automatically, but just as importantly if a unit needs to be healed a dozen times I don't have to spend a whole minute ordering them to do it over and over again. This leaves me time to actually manage my base and forces which is fun and necessary. I can't emphasize how much easier the game is to play with such a simple improvement.

Another thing is the extreme mission diversity. Now Warcraft 2 had base building missions. Starcraft had that and "commando" missions with limited forces as well as "defense" missions where you had to survive for a period of time. Warcraft 3 takes those and does stupendously creative things with them. There are so many I can't mention them all. I remember one mission where half the map was a path with your heroes and another half had your base. You had to keep the base intact while leading the heroes to get an artifact so they could return. Of course that's just two missions in one. How about the mission where you had to take Arthus and slaughter the zombified townspeople before a Demon took them into his forces? I've never played anything even close to that! I mean I've had "collection" missions, but those are just one's where the thing to collect is in a base and you need to build yours and destroy your enemies. This one had over 100 townsfolk as resources. You had a head start since the demon doesn't appear for a few minutes, but you have to fight the townsfolk to eliminate them. The demon may be late, but the townfold don't fight him...in fact they join his side and he can muster a force that will attack you! I'm also trying to complete a mission near the end of the Scourge campaign in the Frozen Throne where you have to control the four nodes all at once. You begin near one and your opponent begins near one and you have to both keep yours from him and get his. What about the "defense" mission based off of the Starcraft UMS maps? That was awesome...

As if making the game easier to play and more diverse wasn't enough the best possible thing they've done is also something I want to hate. It's the cunning and intelligence of the computer. In all the past RTS I've played the computer always played predictably and a little slow. Not here. Oh God no. The computer is always just a bit faster than me at building a base and force. The computer knows when to retreat and when to press the attack. It's SCARY how difficult it is. In fact it's the closest thing I've had to a computer being as difficult as a human player. I've led the computer to engage a small force then sprung two other one's from nearby paths in an ambush only to have the computer turn and run. In fact the computer only seems to either run from you if you outnumber it or attack you if you are outnumbered. The only exception is if they control one base and you attack it. They also have complete knowledge of all the special abilites and items. I remember how I was attacked undefended and a computer ally used a scroll of town portal to send it's hero and some units to my base. I had only thought of using it to save a hero who's almost dead by sending them to safe territory, but not as a means to protect a base!

I will say this and I hope it elicits a nice discussion;

I played Starcraft for years. The campaign twice through, numerous skirmishes versus the computer, some competitive games online, and countless UMS cooperative games that fans made.

Just considering the campaign and skirmish versus computer...I think Warcraft 3 is quite a bit better than Starcraft. I can only hope the fanbase is as large (probably not) so there will be just as many good fan-made maps online.

I will admit though that it seems all of Warcraft 3's goodness stems simply from the fact that Blizzard made it after Starcraft and hence had much more experience. In fact it really seems like Warcraft 3 is just an enhanced Starcraft just as Starcraft is an enhanced version of Warcraft 2. First the two races almost the same. Then three races completely different. Than five races completely different. Before all abilites had to be used now they do it automatically. Before missions were simple now they are incredibly diverse. It's probably just the people at Blizzard gaining experience from each game.

What do you think?

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

P.S.

I'm almost done with The Frozen Throne now. I have one more campaign.
 
Warcraft 3 /TFT has amazing multiplayer. Never really finished the Compaign. The multiplayer is just amazing. FUCK DOTA!(custom map, but Footmen vs Grunts rules!!)
 
Warcraft 3 brings alot of wonderful new innovations to the series, but like t has been said already, the graphics are kinda "meh".

I personally also don't like the cartoony art design (even more so than Warcraft 2). The other Warcraft games felt much more serious, now it feels like a kids game.

Its the same kinda thing that i experienced when playing Diablo 2. The gameplay was much improved (in most ways), but the mood and overall atmoshere took a serious hit.
 
I would like to point out that I've spent all of my gaming time in the past month on W3 and most of it online and half solo 1v1 the other half on custom maps mostly DOTA. I can't believe something like that was made by fans.

It's one of those things that's just good enough to be it's own game. Every game though with modding tools included and/or a large fan community has a few mods that are that good.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
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