TheAmericanHedgehog
First time out of the vault
My goal with asking this question is to learn. Was The Master right? Did humanity have it's chance and mess it up? Could he have united all of humanity under one banner?
Was The Master right?
- Thread starter TheAmericanHedgehog
- Start date
First time out of the vault
PhantomGrenadier
First time out of the vault
No, he was a tyrant who subverted our self evident liberty and morality. He was just another utopian lunatic who deserved to lose.
Throatpunch
Banned
No because mutants didn't have cocks.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I quote Master Mold to refute the Master.
"THAT IS ILLOGICAL, MUTANTS ARE HUMANS."
The Master's plan would only work if he was controlling all of humanity/Super Mutants with his psychic powers forever. That was the "peace" of Super Mutant kind. Also, plenty of Super Mutants were Harry or Lily not Marcus or the Lieutenant. It was a stupid plan and stupider than Dick Richardson's by far.
His might have actually worked.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Good intentions, but it was never going to work. Even if the mutants weren't sterile or stupid the rest of mankind wouldn't go along with it. Pushed hard enough and people will fight back.
Not to mention, even if the Master HAD succeeded in his plan, the Enclave would likely have wiped them all out at Mariposa and killed them all eventually anyway.
EDIT: Though I suppose if the Master managed to find all the unopened Vaults the Enclave's FEV plan probably would never be developed.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Honestly, I think any argument which includes, "Give birth to the Master Race" should automatically be discounted.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Honestly I think the Master's idea of "If everyone is the same, there'll be no fighting over differences" is understandable. But in reality that cannot happen. Even if all the wastelanders are turned into mutants who's to say there won't be sub-factions that emerge and decide to rebel against the Unity?
Throatpunch
Banned
@CT Phipps I'd say his and Dick Richardsons were equally stupid.
The Enclave already had a pretty shallow gene pool and if he effectively killed everyone in the known world with FEV, I expect the incest on the oil rig would get so bad they'd all be centaurs after a few decades.
The Enclave already had a pretty shallow gene pool and if he effectively killed everyone in the known world with FEV, I expect the incest on the oil rig would get so bad they'd all be centaurs after a few decades.
I mean, no more sex would be a big driver. I want to get my dick wet you stupid blob of goo!
a721402
Perhaps tomorrow will be better.
You can still sex even you are sterile, you know.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Eh, there's still some Vaults around.
Of course, humanity has already gone through some nasty genetic bottlenecks. It's the least diverse race in the universe.
D
Deleted member 98605
Guest
Theoretically, yes, his plan would had worked.
In practice, like a lot of Utopian ideologies, it falls flat. Everyone needs to be on board, or it doesn't work. Everyone needs to have the same ideals and same cultural-social mindset for Anarchism, Communism, or Socialism; otherwise the differences chew away at the ideal. Everyone in Anarchism needs to forgo violence and coercion and the social hierarchical structure that Humanity has had before Humanity. Everyone in Communism needs to agree that everyone is roughly equal and deserving of the basics *and* has to agree to provide and help each other on that general basis, and nothing else, along with a whole lot of optimism and self regulation. Everyone in Socialism needs to be on board with the general premise either in Classical to work for the involvement of the evolution of fourth state into the fifth state or in more general Socialism the social control of the means of production and the replacement of general Capitalism with such things - EVERYONE needs to be onboard for these three, because opposition presents a influence which will chew against the ideology and the operation, even if minor and over time, and this includes OUTSIDE influence because the world is and always has been connected, even by continuous middlemen
The dream of the Master could not realistically and tangibly work because eventually, he would either stretch himself too thin or face opposition from a counter faction which can fight him. Both of which already happened in half a state, much less the region, much less the old United States, much less the continent and much less the world or the whole of Humanity. On the pragmatic side, the Master - along with many other Utopian ideals - simply fall flat because, of not shitting you, logistics and human agency of being sapient beings who don't fall in line 100%.
In practice, like a lot of Utopian ideologies, it falls flat. Everyone needs to be on board, or it doesn't work. Everyone needs to have the same ideals and same cultural-social mindset for Anarchism, Communism, or Socialism; otherwise the differences chew away at the ideal. Everyone in Anarchism needs to forgo violence and coercion and the social hierarchical structure that Humanity has had before Humanity. Everyone in Communism needs to agree that everyone is roughly equal and deserving of the basics *and* has to agree to provide and help each other on that general basis, and nothing else, along with a whole lot of optimism and self regulation. Everyone in Socialism needs to be on board with the general premise either in Classical to work for the involvement of the evolution of fourth state into the fifth state or in more general Socialism the social control of the means of production and the replacement of general Capitalism with such things - EVERYONE needs to be onboard for these three, because opposition presents a influence which will chew against the ideology and the operation, even if minor and over time, and this includes OUTSIDE influence because the world is and always has been connected, even by continuous middlemen
The dream of the Master could not realistically and tangibly work because eventually, he would either stretch himself too thin or face opposition from a counter faction which can fight him. Both of which already happened in half a state, much less the region, much less the old United States, much less the continent and much less the world or the whole of Humanity. On the pragmatic side, the Master - along with many other Utopian ideals - simply fall flat because, of not shitting you, logistics and human agency of being sapient beings who don't fall in line 100%.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
whether we're a pure human or a supermutant... it's in our nature to destroy ourselves. it wouldn't have worked. even if they weren't sterile.
This, that's the idea of the iconic phrase "War, war never changes". No matter how much we try, it will always end in conflict.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
The Enclave plan wouldn't have worked if the master and the unity were still kicking. Or at least, not with the same means.
The FEV the Enclave acquired before Fallout 2 was created from a sample that they took from Mariposa, using Redding miners, that got themselves exposed to the patogen. They turned super-mutant and kicked the ass of the Enclave crew there. They barely escapted with the sample, suffering heavy casualty and one of them mutated to later become Frank Horrigan. Their asses were kicked by a bunch of miners turned super-mutants, that probably had no idea of what they had become, and many of them were probably dumb, as they were mere wastelanders, not pure humans.
So, had the Mariposa Military base still been active, with guys like Lou and Marcus at the leadership, tons of organized super-mutants, nightkins, robots, centaurs, floaters, and children of the Cathedral, the Enclave would have had much more problems to extract their sample, even if they had sent more troops. It is even likely that the Enclave would ultimately have lost the war agains't the unity, because they couldn't replenish their number, contrary to the super-mutants. (PS: Also, the super-mutants were supposed to kick the whole BOS ass in Fallout 1 if you waited too much to defeat them. There is a definite case of story and gameplay segregation with the super-mutants. They are supposed to be a bigger treat than their ingame stats, at least in the classic trilogy.)
Also, Lily is not an exemple of dumb super-mutants. Keene, Dog or God, Tabitha, Lily or Davison, were nightkin, smart super-mutants entrusted by the master to form an elite of spies. It was after centuries of overuse of stealthboys that they became schyzophrenics. But that condition didn't make them dumb either. They have personality issue, but still have the mental capacity to be cunning.
The FEV the Enclave acquired before Fallout 2 was created from a sample that they took from Mariposa, using Redding miners, that got themselves exposed to the patogen. They turned super-mutant and kicked the ass of the Enclave crew there. They barely escapted with the sample, suffering heavy casualty and one of them mutated to later become Frank Horrigan. Their asses were kicked by a bunch of miners turned super-mutants, that probably had no idea of what they had become, and many of them were probably dumb, as they were mere wastelanders, not pure humans.
So, had the Mariposa Military base still been active, with guys like Lou and Marcus at the leadership, tons of organized super-mutants, nightkins, robots, centaurs, floaters, and children of the Cathedral, the Enclave would have had much more problems to extract their sample, even if they had sent more troops. It is even likely that the Enclave would ultimately have lost the war agains't the unity, because they couldn't replenish their number, contrary to the super-mutants. (PS: Also, the super-mutants were supposed to kick the whole BOS ass in Fallout 1 if you waited too much to defeat them. There is a definite case of story and gameplay segregation with the super-mutants. They are supposed to be a bigger treat than their ingame stats, at least in the classic trilogy.)
Also, Lily is not an exemple of dumb super-mutants. Keene, Dog or God, Tabitha, Lily or Davison, were nightkin, smart super-mutants entrusted by the master to form an elite of spies. It was after centuries of overuse of stealthboys that they became schyzophrenics. But that condition didn't make them dumb either. They have personality issue, but still have the mental capacity to be cunning.
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