Weapon Jamming

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Josan12, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    So here's an idea i've had on my drawing board for ages, and i thought i'd throw it out there to see if anyone (especially sfall global script experts ;)) can think of a way it could be done fairly simply:

    When a ranged weapon is fired, there is a % chance of it jamming. Jammed weapons become un-usable (like a two-handed weapon when you have a crippled arm)
    They can be unjammed by a successful repair check on the weapon.

    That's it. Sounds simple - probably isn't :mrgreen:

    Thoughts?
     
  2. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    Sounds like a good concept – would it mean that the weapon would be useless until the combat finishes, remember we can’t use our repair skill during combat (something I always found odd)…or would it be a lost round until the weapon is un-jammed – somewhat like the critical miss.
     
  3. SkuLL

    SkuLL Chad McRealman Orderite

    Sep 6, 2009
    Depends how you expect the 'un-jamming' to work. I can think of two ways:

    1) Every time you try to spend AP shooting a jammed gun, a REPAIR check is made to see if you can. PASS = you shoot, FAIL = you don't shoot, wasting the AP.

    2) Gun is jammed until combat finished. Then you have to use REPAIR on yourself, to unjam all your weapons.

    3) Repairing a jammed gun in combat is done through another function that you can select by right-clicking on it, like so: SHOOT=4AP / SHOOT&AIM=5AP / RELOAD=2AP / UNJAM=2AP

    I'm not sure which of those can be done with the F2 engine. But jamming would be interesting to see - plenty of factors could affect it, from the weapon type to your skill with it and plain old luck...
     
  4. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    It would be jammed until the end of combat to keep things simple. And plus i don't know much about guns, but i suspect most jams can't really be cleared in the heat of a gunfight.

    To unjam the engine, i believe, would require the player to drop the gun on the floor, and then use repair on it.

    So - can anyone help with how to acheive this?
     
  5. Aphyosis

    Aphyosis Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    473
    Nov 4, 2009
    It depends on the jam i think.

    Some are as simple as opening the breach to remove the round/casing, whereas others require more extensive efforts.
     
  6. Darek

    Darek is currently unavailable

    Jan 7, 2008
    @ Josan,
    Wouldn't that require that every gun has a script? Then it's a big no-no. The too many items bug was never really fixed, just avoided.

    On the other hand, would it be possible to assign a "jammed" script to the gun you happen to have in your active inventory slot (the script render the gun useless for the remainder of the fight), and then remove it when it's fixed (or maybe have it automatically fixed and removed after the fight to avoid carrying around scripted items)?
     
  7. mor

    mor Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Jun 18, 2010
    there is already a critical failure that makes you lose all ammo, forcing you to waste time to reload.

    for the game purpose this exactly how a jams should be handled.
    usually it doenst take more time fix it than what is assigned to reloading/geting stuf from your backpack in the game.
    the only difference is how much ammo you should lose, which is usually only one or two bullets (varies on weapon type)
     
  8. Tony Brasco

    Tony Brasco First time out of the vault

    55
    Mar 11, 2010
    Firearms are very reliable these days. Jams are rare, although they can occur if the weapon is poorly maintained (not cleaned, or sand is allowed to get inside the gun etc), or if the user handles the weapon poorly (like I have done ;)). We can assume the Chosen One takes care of his/her weapons...

    Most jams are not really "repaired", you simply cock the weapon again, that is, do the reloading motion - takes a second or so. The offending cartridge or an empty casing drops to the ground, and the gun is then ready to go again (new cartridge is in the chamber), assuming of course, that there were still rounds left in the magazine.

    Stoppages can occur if a firearm is handled too "gently", for example when reloading, doing the reloading movement in a wrong way, the bullet does not enter the bullet chamber properly. When fired, I was able to get many stoppages on a real Glock 17 handgun that way in one training session, and that weapon can usually be fired thousands of times without stoppages. In some tests they even covered the weapon with sand, and it still worked like a charm.

    I had a cut in my finger, and thus had trouble cocking the weapon, and I was a newbie, so that explains at least a little bit :).

    If something breaks inside the gun (extremely rare), then it certainly cannot be repaired during combat. You need to disassemble the weapon, and field stripping can require a screwdriver or other tools, and perhaps a manual if you don't know the weapon. And it also requires concentration, possibly a spare part, something you can't deal with when someone is shooting at you :). Military weapons are usually simpler to open and maintain, as they (usually) don't need screwdrivers or other tools to open.

    But no, while I have some experience with firearms, I am not an expert in these matter either. Anyways, if this was implemented, the chance of a stoppage would have to be very low if realism is desired.
     
  9. mor

    mor Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Jun 18, 2010
    these days yes but i would assume that post apocalyptic weapons and magazines will be in far worse condition.

    so crappy mags, failure to feed/extract, double feeds, stuck casing in the chamber you name it.
    its can also misfire a dud or whatever its called in english, although this one never happened to me.


    btw any ideas how P90 handles such things ?
     
  10. Skiewolf

    Skiewolf First time out of the vault

    24
    Mar 31, 2010
    I think Tony got it right.
    It would be equal to adding a couple of new critical failure types and losing some AP and bullets at best.
     
  11. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    This is how i see it. But realism isn't my aim, and since FO is not really a realistic game i don't really want to get into a debate about modern firearms jamming. Ultimately i feel like it would add an element of interest and unpredictability into the game, and also bring down the power of small guns, which are already almost certainly the best weapons in the game.

    So - could a hook script be used for this purpose? Something like (in pseudo script) :

    IF weapon_attack == xyz weapon AND random variable == x THEN BEGIN
    flag_weapon_as_jammed
    end

    Any Thoughts on these technicalities?
     
  12. Riel88

    Riel88 First time out of the vault

    76
    Mar 30, 2010
    Weapon jamming + ammo rarity/weight & all the other features your working on will really give the player much more options to play the game. Not only combat wise by making for example melee, unarmed & throwing a much more atractive pick, also repair, outdoorsman, endurance & strength to just name a few will finally make their comeback into the game. (thinking of the sleep/food/water features).
    Damn ! Josan keep rocking on man !
     
  13. smilodom

    smilodom Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    344
    Apr 17, 2008
    I am always thinking to incorporate the using of the "T51b" manual?
    So that Power armour be liable to get damaged especially after heavy combat but also during a time limit..
     
  14. Tony Brasco

    Tony Brasco First time out of the vault

    55
    Mar 11, 2010
    But new weapons have certainly been made since the apocalypse, in all kinds of weapon shops. In fact, even in Fallout 1 you could meet someone who could cast bullets, and modify weapons. You need a weapon smith for that. And no one would go to a battle if they did not trust their weapons. And magazines are even easier to make than full weapons.

    Those misfires or duds are mainly problem with the ammo, not with the weapon.

    Anyways, if weapons are made from solid blueprints. they are not that unreliable. Since the original weapons are very reliable, why would the guns made from those blueprints be so unreliable? Manufacturing guns is simply not "atom-level" business like for example, making computer processors is. And they have made far more sophisticated machinery in the Fallout world already.

    Sorry if I am the "negative guy". Usually I am not. I just find it hard to believe that people would use a mod which would make the game more unrealistic than it currently is, or make less sense than current situation is. Jams are possible, but very rare and unlikely.