Weapon progression a tad screwed in FO2?

Q

Question

First time out of the vault
Sadly....yes.

For instance,laser weaponry are for the most part completly useless.Though a laser pistol is pretty good for clearing out bishop/mordino casinos assuming you get the ammo from wiping out the salvatores.Otherwise a .223 is just plain better.

And laser rifles?LOL.By the time you get one you cant even shoot the mutants in the military base for any decent amount of damage.Or pretty much anything else in the game for that matter.

Plasma pistol?Why use one when i can use a plasma rifle?Actually why use a plasma rifle when i can use a pulse rifle?

Assault rifles/FN-Fals are also a joke,as they have really horrible damage.Shotguns are better than ARs in this game.Better damage,better ammo,burst mode as well........

And the XL7.....i never get it unless i really go out looking for it.And why would i want to?Its not that great at this point.

Needler pistol with AP ammo = nice damage,but since you either have to steal from the redding sheriff or screw up your caravan mission OR get it from myron,thats not a lot of choices.Should have allowed us to buy from vault city.With ammo at more locations.

P90 = erm why would i want to use this?

G11 = Eh a CAWS is faster to get and is better damage.

And armor as well...for instance you jump straight from combat armor to power armor to adv power armor assuming you go to sierra/MB/navarro in that order.You just dont get the chance to savour combat armor MK II or brotherhood armor.IIMHO you jump armor far too easy at this point.Earlier on,its the same....combat jacket?Most likely you already have metal armor MK II.Leather armor MK II?Why pick THAT over metal armor MK II?AC is almost useelss,even with good 30 AC anything in new reno can hit you with ease,since NPCs tend to run up pointblank and unload bursts into you.
 
FN FAL does nice damage. The ammo is way too rare to be of any use though. P90c is one of the best SMGs in the game. Why wouldn't you want one? One hander + fast shot + P90c = awesomeness (until Mr. Gauss of course). And the G11 eats through armor that any shotgun cannot even dream to do (because of the caseless ammo).

More rants:
Pulse Weapons: Why would you want this when the Gauss weapons do more damage. chew through armor easier, and require a useful skill?
 
This may be in the wrong forum but I'm not a mod and can't do shit about that :)

Anyway, I did always think the Assault rifle progression especially was messed up. It had no satisfying end, even though the FN FAL could be fitted with a night sight, and did decent damage, it still wasn't something you'd want to use on Enclave patrolmen with any regularity, and there was nothing much better. FN FAL HFPA did a little more damage and shot the entire magazine in one burst. WTF, over?

The Laser Rifle is a precision weapon. Shoot the eyes and you will crit. I've used one to take on Navarro base. Yes, I did it. Except I had 150 energy weapons, Sniper, Better Critical, More Criticals, Fast Shot, Living Anatomy, and some other shooting perks. By that time you're deadly with nearly anything though, so what I did wasn't that special.

P90 and the H&K submachineguns (in reality the H&K G11 is an assault rifle) are decent but not smashing; there are better weapons to use for small guns. P90 was supposed to use 9mm anyway.

Only thing I ever found to do with the pulse rifle was give it to Marcus. By the time you get it you'll have enough small guns to effectively wield the gauss weapons, even if you didn't dedicate yourself to small guns, since you can get it up to 91% with books, even more if you fiddle around a bit, and probably should be adding a few points to it as it's handy for anyone, even a Melee fighter, since you'll have to deal with runners, etc.
 
Question said:
why use a plasma rifle when i can use a pulse rifle?
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Assuming your Small Guns is underdeveloped and you're fighting a swarm of floaters, the Plasma Rifle is your best chance - note how resistant they are to electric damage

Question said:
.Shotguns are better than ARs in this game.Better damage,better ammo,burst mode as well.........
Click to expand...

Combat Shotguns.
 
In general thouhg pulse rifle > plasma rifle>laser rifle.Why?More damage.More damage = more damage with crits as well.If you can kill enclave troopers with laser rifle(meaning you routinely crit through their armor),you will do it better with plasma,and correspondingly,pulse rifle.

Gauss weapons are pretty good but i generally did not need -20 DR against enclave troopers.Eye crits,sniper perk,that says it all......

And floaters are just plain annoying.They have to be the one thing i cant kill 95% of the time with 2 eye crits in a row.Anyone got their resists?I think i used to use las rifles back when i first got FO2.

FN Fal.......not really.Sure,their ammo has well rather nice bonuses,but the damage isnt that good.Basically the only thing i could use it for was to guard the modoc brahmin at night with night sight.Otherwise...a combat shotgun and up just did better.And their ammo is hard to find.

GL11 : Weapons a tad too rare for me.DR also useless because by the time i get it i can hit eyes with 95% accuracy most of the time.

The thing that really pissed me off though was not being able to use plasma pistols effectively.I mean their model is pretty kickass.But i just couldnt gimp myself with a lower range,damaging plasma rifle.
 
A lot could have been done to improve weapon balance, yes. Assault Rifles and FN FALs were pointless. It doesn't make sense that a heavy revolver fired faster than a semi-automatic. The Salvatores were holding New Reno hostage with pea shooters. A few points though:

Fo1 had just as many useless weapons as Fo2, relatively speaking. You could acquire the best HtH weapon in the Hub and two of the best ranged weapons pretty much right away with the right stats (though you might have to wait a bit longer for extra ammo). Fo2 is much richer when it comes to weaponry and choices.

The P90c and HK G11 are two favourites, the P90c being Sulik's best weapon as well if you want to keep the caseless ammo to yourself (and don't mind him spraying your ass).

Of course weapon and armour progression is screwed up if you know where everything is and go there right away. What does that prove exactly?
 
MethidParadox said:
you should make a mod, fix it all
Click to expand...

In a few weeks you can try a mod that fixes most of this. The FN FAL is now .308 and is a kick ass gun. Bozar is .50 caliber. Old .303s are very powerful too. And energy weapons are more balanced relative to conventional (ie lasers are not sucky anymore). Gun stats have been adjusted to match real guns, sounds are recordings from real guns, ammo stats have been adjusted. Oh but the critters you meet have double the hit points they used to have and more action points. Some of the random encounters will make you sweat like you used to when you first played fallout. And you won't know where to find those great weapons because it will be different every week. And those same old critters will likely be wielding different weapons next time you cross their path.
 
"You encounter a swarm of Mantis. The Mantis are wielding Bozar's. Maybe you should save the game in a new slot. Or run like hell. Or save the game in a new slot and then run like hell. Or you could try to take on 10 Mantis with 20 AP and Bozar's. Or you can just quite right away."

That would be fun. :P
 
dude_obj said:
MethidParadox said:
you should make a mod, fix it all
Click to expand...

In a few weeks you can try a mod that fixes most of this. The FN FAL is now .308 and is a kick ass gun. Bozar is .50 caliber. Old .303s are very powerful too. And energy weapons are more balanced relative to conventional (ie lasers are not sucky anymore). Gun stats have been adjusted to match real guns, sounds are recordings from real guns, ammo stats have been adjusted. Oh but the critters you meet have double the hit points they used to have and more action points. Some of the random encounters will make you sweat like you used to when you first played fallout. And you won't know where to find those great weapons because it will be different every week. And those same old critters will likely be wielding different weapons next time you cross their path.
Click to expand...

Where?!
 
It will be announced here on NMA, in the Fallout Modding/Hacking & Project Announcements forum.

No manti with bozars hehe. What happens with random encounters is: a script checks all 6 of the critters combat skills (small guns, melee, etc) and determines which is its highest skill. Then the script generates a weapon that both uses that skill, and that the character has proper attack animation for. It also generates ammo for that weapon. It then picks another random weapon that the critter can use and places it in its inventory. There is a chance that the critter will have stimpaks, small chance of other drugs, and a chance of a random item.
 
sounds really cool :)

But will you make guns armed encounters more rarely? You know it was pretty easy to wait on the farmers vs robber encounter for example so you could loot there bodys for the guns.
 
Oracle said:
But will you make guns armed encounters more rarely? You know it was pretty easy to wait on the farmers vs robber encounter for example so you could loot there bodys for the guns.
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The whole system will likely need to be tuned based on experience and feedback from the beta release.
The random weapon wielding during random encounters is only one part of the randomization. The game also will:

For containers, there will be no fixed or static loot (ie loot that was manually selected by designer and placed in container), unless that loot is a quest related item. Each container in an area map will basically do a roll to see if it contains loot. If it succeeds in that roll, it does another roll to determine what kind of loot it should have. This means loot will usually be in different places each time you play, and the loot will also be different items.

For critters on maps, many will have random weapons generated for them (like the random encounters) and most will also have a chance of having some loot (random item) in their inventory.

For stores, most of the items for sale will be randomly picked, although some logic is applied to make sure there is a progression towards better items in the latter part of the game. Also there is a set of common ammo that most stores will stock, while rare ammo must pass a roll to be stocked. The stores will empty their inventory every 4-10 days, so there is much more diversity in items overall.

As I said, some tuning will be needed. Is there too much loot showing up in containers or not enough? Are the stores stocking items at a good balance and progression throughout the game? Are the random weapons on critters making the game too easy or too hard etc. These things can be tuned as I get feedback from people. There is basically tables with the % chance of having loot or weapon, and % chance of having each type of specific item. These can be changed to tune the randomization.
 
Will the NPCs in random encounters carry more money than 6 chips each or something?Possibly something to make the ofrtune finder perk even 5% useful?
 
Question said:
Will the NPCs in random encounters carry more money than 6 chips each or something?
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Here is an example of a raider encounter, new script does:

Wield random weapon in highest combat skill category
Add a second random weapon to inventory
(both of the above make sure the critter has animations so they can use those weapons)

75% chance of having 1-25 coins
50% chance of having 1-2 stimpaks
25% chance of having 1 psycho drug
25% chance of having 1 jet drug

They are not all the same, many of them have 50% chance of random item, that item could be a flower or a bozar, but the odds of getting a weapon or armor are very low. Usually it will be a beer or pelt or food, but there is a chance for something really good

Question said:
Possibly something to make the ofrtune finder perk even 5% useful?
Click to expand...

I am contemplating enhancements that would use traits and perks in the randomization calculations. Perhaps higher luck will give you a modifier that will generate better items. Maybe high perception would allow you to find treasure on the ground that otherwise you won't even see. Fortune finder could be another modifier.
 
Perhaps they did that for a reason. Do realize they tried to make Fallout and its sequels as real as they could. Which means, if you think about it, that these armors would be scattered like they are. And perhaps they made the guns the way they did to encourage you to use the more powerful weapons. My pulse rifle is dorky lookin and if I walked down San Fran today with one, someone might think I'm gay. But the gun still kicks ass.

Anyway, I went a bit off. Back to the armor.

Remember that these places based on real ones. In the future some of them may becoem more militarized so it would, in fact, be easier to get the Power Armors easier than what it should be. If I went to the town over, do you think that they'd have a worse inventory than the town after that? No. They could even have a better selection. If I killed one guy with a pistol and his twin brother came after me, do you think he'd be harder? Slightly, but that's because of natural instincts and other reasons. But I could still drop him with a shot to head or heart. Makes more sense than you'd think.
 
But I take it you won't, luckily, find a Bozar at the first encounter involving critters that can use a Bozar...
 
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