Weimar II: Electronic Bugallo

J

John Uskglass

Venerable Relic of the Wastes
Hung parliament looms in Germany
CDU leader Angela Merkel
Angela Merkel is hoping to step into Germany's driving seat
Germany's centre-right Christian Democrats, led by Angela Merkel, have failed to win a governing majority in Sunday's election, exit polls suggest.

They indicate that the Christian Democrats will be the largest party in what is likely to be a hung parliament.

Ms Merkel - who wants to introduce far-reaching reforms to revive a flagging economy - said she had a "clear mandate" to govern.

But she could be forced into a grand coalition with the Social Democrats.

Germany's ARD television puts with Christian Democrats in the lead with 36% of the vote - much worse than expected.

Their preferred coalition partner, the pro-business Free Democrats, did well with 10%, according to unofficial exit polls - but apparently not enough to secure a joint majority.

Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats are estimated to have won about 34% of votes.

Economic woes

The Social Democrats called the results a "personal defeat" for Ms Merkel and said Mr Schroeder should remain chancellor in a grand coalition.

The BBC's William Horsley in Berlin says weeks of tough talks lie ahead before Germany gets a new government.


Gerhard Schroeder votes with wife Doris Schroeder-Kopf

German voters' views
Analysis: Power struggle
Ms Merkel said she would "take up talks with all parties" except for the radical Left Party - implicitly acknowledging the possibility of a grand coalition.

The country's sluggish economy, high unemployment and foreign policy have been the election's main themes.

On the eve of polling, Ms Merkel condemned Mr Schroeder's economic record.

During his seven-year stint, Germany's jobless total has risen above five million, and remains at more than 11%, she said.

The CDU and SPD have been arguing ferociously over the nature of economic reforms they both say are necessary.

Mr Schroeder defended the labour and welfare changes he has set in motion, saying Mrs Merkel's proposals on tax and labour reform go too far.

He also recalled his opposition to the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 and criticised Mrs Merkel for visiting Washington in the run-up to the war.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4258376.stm

Well, that's it for Germany. I don't care what anyone says about American politics, I'd rather have 4 Bushes in a row then one Gethard. I mean, Jesus Christ, this is pathetic.
 
Yeah, nothing better than getting to choose between a grand total of two parties that differ only in irrelevant nuances. Real damn democratic.
 
Graz'zt said:
Yeah, nothing better than getting to choose between a grand total of two parties that differ only in irrelevant nuances. Real damn democratic.
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You know as much about the American democratic system as I do about C++.

The Democrats and the Republicans are pretty diffirent in several ways, but the best thing about our system is that it tends to be inherintly moderate, such that we don't get Communists getting 8% of the Vote or Socail Democrats staying in Power just to spite the most powerful nation on Earth.
 
John, the Left Party voters aren't Communists, they are a bunch of former SPD members who are pissed of by the pseudo-neo-liberal programm of the Social Democrats. Okay, and maybe a few Socialists, former PDS-voters.
You know, really Communists vote the MLPD (Marxist-Leninist Party of Germany), which is among the 3.9% of "other parties", together with the Party of Bible-Abiding Christians, NPD and other Nazis (and thus will not make it into the parliament). :wink:
 
Yeah, I know, but do you really expect me to not exaggerate to bring on flaming?

I'd call them Democratic Socialists, probably.

I'm curious MoK, what do you think the Social Democratic Party's purpose is any more? It's effectivley a vehicle to prolong Schroder's political life.

Also, what do you think the odds are of a Purple-Red-Green coalition?
 
Possible German coalition governments

Sunday, September 18, 2005 Posted: 1939 GMT (0339 HKT)



BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- With projections in the German election showing traditional center-right and center-left coalitions both falling short of a majority, the next government will have to be formed by a different combination.

If no majority government can be formed, a minority government could rule, but that has never happened on the national level in Germany.

Here are four possible governments that could emerge:

Right and left: A "grand coalition" linkup between Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats and Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's center-left Social Democrats, with Merkel as chancellor, is a leading possibility. The same combination could be led by Schroeder if his party were to overtake Merkel's to become the strongest in parliament. The two sides have some policy overlap, with Merkel saying Schroeder's attempts at economic reform were good but didn't go far enough. Many think this coalition would mean deadlock that would postpone economic reform, with the Social Democrats' left-wing members and union allies thwarting Merkel's efforts to cut back on costly worker protections and social benefits.

All left wing: This coalition would comprise the Social Democrats and Greens -- who make up the current government -- plus the new Left Party, made up of former East German communists and renegade Social Democrats opposed to Schroeder's pro-business policies and cuts in jobless benefits. Schroeder immediately ruled out this possibility after the first projections, as did the Left Party, which has sharp policy differences with the Social Democrats.

Left with a bit of right: The current government of Social Democrats and Greens cuts a deal with the pro-business Free Democrats. Dubbed the "traffic light" for the party colors (red, green and yellow). It is one possibility for Schroeder to remain in office, but Free Democrat leader Guido Westerwelle said he would rather be in opposition than participate.

Right with a bit of left: Merkel's Christian Democrats join up with Free Democrats, whom they were unable to form a government alone with, and add the Greens. The Free Democrats and Greens are well-known foes, but it would give both the smaller parties the ability to be part of a ruling coalition.
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Oh God. Oh...oh....oh God. No. Please. No.

From CNN
 
I'm all for that all-left coalition. I think it would rock to have a few extreme left politicians in power.
 
Okay, here it comes again (I hope it will not disappear this time):


I'm curious MoK, what do you think the Social Democratic Party's purpose is any more? It's effectivley a vehicle to prolong Schroder's political life.
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No, it's just what it has been since 1863: A center/medium left democratic party, which adopted some liberal ideas. Schröder wants and tries vehemently to stay in power, but if he thinks he will be chancellor by all means for another period he's either blind or megalomaniac.
Schröder received a lot of criticism out of his own party, especially from the left wing (which led to the secession of the WASG which later became the Left Party together with the PDS).
His labour market reform is one of the most controversial act of German internal policy in the last 20 years.
Schröder is no "God King" of the Social Democratic Party like Stoiber is in Bavaria.

Also, what do you think the odds are of a Purple-Red-Green coalition?
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Seriously? None. It seems like SPD and CDU both got 222 seats in Bundestag, which means that neither a Red-Green coalition nor a Black-Yellow coalition (CDU-FDP) has any chance to reach the necessary 51%.
As for All-Left-Coalition: The Left Party said in forefront of the elections that there is no way of forming a government together with the SPD. Within the Left Party the SPD is seen as a traitor which goes whoring with neoliberalism, while most of the SPD members see the Left Party as... well... populist traitors.

I'm all for that all-left coalition. I think it would rock to have a few extreme left politicians in power.
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See above.

Also:
-The Greens are an environmental protection party with left/alternative tendencies, thus they will never work together with the conservatives.
-The liberals will not work together with the Social Democrats, forget about it, they did to much to climb into the conservatives' ass in the last 3 years.
-The Left Party and the CDU are ideological enemies.

Yeah, it looks like Angela will become the first female chancellor of Germany.

The only solution seems to be a Grand Coalition, and it will most likely be.
There was only one Grand Coalition in history, under Kurt Georg Kiesinger, chancellor from 1966 till 1969. It received a lot of criticism, but it achieved some important goals. The question is which party would be the commanding one in this case.
If Schröder insist on his chancellorship, I see some trouble approaching.

Also, do not forget: 200,000 people in Dresden haven't voted yet.
 
A benevolent artificial intelligence would be much more effective at running a country.

If that possibility were ever allowed, and due to the same petty imperfections which make humans so ineffective at governing themselves, it wouldn't be.

In any case, I think the American system could due with a bit of extremism. There would be the constant threat of extremist groups actually getting a place in the government, but that competition might prove to be good for the moderate parties.
 
No, I always said we should reconstitute the House of Hohenzollern and reinstall the Kaiser as head of state.

Ah, btw John: I got a little confused with the colours: What does blue mean in this context?
In Germany it is:
black - conservative
red - left
green - ...uh, quite obvious
yellow - liberal
 
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