We're there, Fallout's lowest point

[Cyberpunk88]

Yes I understand why this merchandise exists and that there are lots of people interested in it, I too own some. My biggest gripe with the merchandise is that it's barely related to in-game items but instead thing like candles and underwear (although that has changed a bit since Bethesda launched their new store) but most of all that there isn't any merch for games like Fallout 1/2 and New Vegas, even 3 barely got any. It's like they're pretending those games don't even exist.
As for the games themselves, seeing how Fallout 4 turned out and now 76, I just don't have any hope for 5 or other future games unless they give some outside studio another try, which'll probably never happen again..

 

[Atomkilla]

Yes I understand why this merchandise exists and that there are lots of people interested in it, I too own some. My biggest gripe with the merchandise is that it's barely related to in-game items but instead thing like candles and underwear (although that has changed a bit since Bethesda launched their new store) but most of all that there isn't any merch for games like Fallout 1/2 and New Vegas, even 3 barely got any. It's like they're pretending those games don't even exist.
As for the games themselves, seeing how Fallout 4 turned out and now 76, I just don't have any hope for 5 or other future games unless they give some outside studio another try, which'll probably never happen again..

IIRC there was merch for FNV. I recall NCR T-shirts. Might be something else, can't remember.
Fallout 3 had collectible bobbleheads, as well as a lunch box.
As far as F1/F2 goes, it's more or less given why there is no merch - they are old games, and while iconic among the older RPG crowd, are hardly popular among modern gamers which are the target audience of F4 and of this kind of merch. As a side note, F2 had little merch back in the day. Very little though, it wasn't as big as it is now.

As to why FNV and F3 are severely lacking in merch compared to F4 - it's because at the time those games were released Bethesda wasn't dabbling with merch a lot. They made a bigger move with Skyrim and later on with F4 in that direction. Prior to that, their collectible items were not a huge thing.

It should be noted that they retroactively capitalized on more iconic aspects of FO3 which are present in FO4. Portable nuke, T-45 Power Armor figure, Pip-Boy 3000 etc. Given FO3 introduced these, you have FO3 merch arguably.
It is true there is little merch based on stuff FNV introduced. We all could guess why, but at the end of the day, it would just be our suspicions, but no hard evidence, regardless of how well that suspicion is rooted.

At the end of the day, I don't think Bethesda is pretending older titles don't exist. They are just capitalizing on the success of the currently the most popular thing, and that is FO4 and upcoming FO76. Good business, nothing more.

 

[naossano]

It is to be expected. They care more about the new stuff that are still in the sale cycle, than the old stuff that provide marginal income. (still huge income, if you count their whole collection of old games but much much less income than the most recently made stuff)

If you want to get pissed, think about how they botched their Fallout anthology...

 

[Mr Fish]

What pisses me off is that each new merch is yet another cash grab, in lieu of developing a game that deserves additional content (or even additional content worth getting). It's irrelevant to say that we would be glad for it if the games were good, because that doesn't change what all this garbage really means. Their philosophy is to squeeze everything they can out of it; blood from a stone if possible. The franchise has only dark days ahead of it.

All merch is cashgrab.

And the people in charge of designing and creating bobbleheads are not the same as those in charge of developing games.

 

[NMLevesque]

All merch is cashgrab.

And the people in charge of designing and creating bobbleheads are not the same as those in charge of developing games.

That's a bald assertion, and I don't agree. Nor do I think you addressed the substance of what I wrote. Merch is a part of their overall approach to the franchise, which doesn't say anything good*. They can set it up in separate departments but that compartmentalization doesn't change the fact that A) it's the same company and B) they're still spending that much more on merch. Either it's profitable and they're still churning out shitty games, or it's not profitable and draining resources. Regardless, the games are getting shittier and the merchandizing is getting more extensive.

*It's all about money. The story means nothing. The lore is irrelevant. The world and it's characters don't matter.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I would buy a branded Fallout (any #) Mr.Handy hovering RC drone.

 

[Atomkilla]

That's a bald assertion, and I don't agree. Nor do I think you addressed the substance of what I wrote. Merch is a part of their overall approach to the franchise, which doesn't say anything good*. They can set it up in separate departments but that compartmentalization doesn't change the fact that A) it's the same company and B) they're still spending that much more on merch. Either it's profitable and they're still churning out shitty games, or it's not profitable and draining resources. Regardless, the games are getting shittier and the merchandizing is getting more extensive.

*It's all about money. The story means nothing. The lore is irrelevant. The world and it's characters don't matter.

You honestly think merch production is a huge drain of resources in game development?
For one, the budget that the publisher affords for merch is separate from the one that is afforded to game development. Not to mention that merch budget is far lesser than actual game budget.

And hell yeah, merch is affordable. It's good business and it's practical. But it's nowhere as profitable as, you know, actual games.

Bottom line is merch has nothing to do with game development. There is little to no relation. Separate teams, separate goals, separate budgets. Hell, even different comopanies develop merch. The only thing they share with the game studio are certain assets.

Assuming there is a correlation between merch quality and quantity with games quality is just wrong. Case in point - Bethesda made shitty games before they started cashing in on merch. It is a fact that their games are getting shittier over time, but merch has nothing to do with it.

 

[NMLevesque]

You honestly think merch production is a huge drain of resources in game development?

That's not what I said. I brought it up as part of a dichotomy for illustrative purposes. Obviously they are making even more money now, and are making ever shittier games. All I'm saying is that their approach to the franchise as a whole is their approach to the franchise as a whole. It's literally tautological. What we can understand about part of their approach speaks to the whole.

For one, the budget that the publisher affords for merch is separate from the one that is afforded to game development.

I never indicated otherwise.

 

[Einhanderc7]

@Atomkilla I'm not sure where you're getting your information to assume that a developer/publisher doesn't include merchandise into their budget for a game.

Typically when a company is setting a budget for any project they determine the specific amounts based on the project as a whole so that later they can review it's profitability. Assuming that merchandise doesn't factor into the overall budget of a game is simply factually wrong.

When a business begins a project they will outline the total budget for the game, from there it gets split into specific categories and so on. Normally a budget for a project for a video game will outline the overhead, 3rd party assets, marketing, expected over time, etc... The point being is the total budget is being split, and in some cases is far more well endowed for some categories than others.

In Bethesda's case they spend a great deal on marketing, specifically merchandise falls under the umbrella of allotted funds for marketing. Bear in mind that marketing includes anything and everything to get the word out to fans. From merchandise, interviews, promotional videos, etc...

Currently a lot of publishers have been over inflating their marketing budgets and slimming down the cost of actual product. Which is why a lot of modern games are plagued by massive issues, limited game play, and just overall poor product quality.

The only time merchandise is not a budgetary concern is when it's an after the fact business implementation such as a 3rd party requesting the license to produce and market goods related to the brand. In this case the brand's owner does not spend a dime on merchandise, but instead is paid by a 3rd party for the rights as well royalties.

 

[naossano]

But isn't the merchandising there to promot the IP as a whole ?
Is Shelter part of Fo4\Fo76 budget or as a way to keep the franchise alive so it get more profit later for the separate entries ?

 

[Brad M]

Fallout trading cards are much less insulting than the huge piss Fallout 3 and 4 took on the series. At least the cards are not connected to the games and they don't oversimplify and dumb down the series like Fallout 3 and 4 did.

This. Taking away isometric style of Fallout felt like somebody just took a huge shit on Interplay's/Black Isle's chest. Don't get me wrong, I liked them, but they didn't feel like Fallout to me as of Fallout 3+. Interesting that OP's favourites were 2 of the last 3 that came out, and that this is the ultimate low? Not sure that I agree. Mainstream popularity is what it is, and underground Fallout is no longer.. Take it in strides I suppose, I'm still happy that there are new Fallout games coming out.

 

[Norzan]

What's ironic is that a lot of people called Fallout 3 the lowest point in the series and the defendants of the game were saying those people "were living in the past" or "series needs to evolve" or some other bullshit to try to shut down any criticism, now those same defendants come to the internet saying Fallout 76 is the lowest point in the series and Fallout 3 and 4 are actually "great".

How fucking hilarious now that a lot of the defendants of Fallout 3 and 4 are crying foul at Fallout 76, when a lot of people did the same for Fallout 3 and 4. Guess we should start saying for them to "stop living in the past" or that Fallout 76 is "the evolution of the series".

 

[Einhanderc7]

"Why can't we just have nice things?"
"Because there is no such thing as integrity in the game industry anymore that's why."
"That's a bit defeatist isn't it?"
"No that's just reality when profit margins dictate an individual's life rather than the skill in their craft."
"Valid point."

I have a great idea in which we all can band together and make our own Fallout game, and get away with it without using parody law to protect us.

Here's a recent precedence:
Pubg vs. Fortnite - basically the same game, but not. There are a lot of these floating about that could be referenced.

In this case all we would have to do is acquire an engine, a team, and construct a universe similar, but not the same as the Fallout universe. Tada, a completely unique intellectual property that Bethesda can't do anything about.

Bear in mind the product cannot parody or reference the Fallout brand/franchise, nor could we try in any way pass the product off as made or affiliated with Bethesda's brands.

Literally the "product" could have almost all the same features/lore provided they look different, and are not overtly similar to the "other" product.

From there those that produce the "game" could effectively steal the market out from under Bethesda like Fortnite did to Pubg.

 

[Brad M]

"Why can't we just have nice things?"
"Because there is no such thing as integrity in the game industry anymore that's why."
"That's a bit defeatist isn't it?"
"No that's just reality when profit margins dictate an individual's life rather than the skill in their craft."
"Valid point."

I have a great idea in which we all can band together and make our own Fallout game, and get away with it without using parody law to protect us.

Here's a recent precedence:
Pubg vs. Fortnite - basically the same game, but not. There are a lot of these floating about that could be referenced.

In this case all we would have to do is acquire an engine, a team, and construct a universe similar, but not the same as the Fallout universe. Tada, a completely unique intellectual property that Bethesda can't do anything about.

Bear in mind the product cannot parody or reference the Fallout brand/franchise, nor could we try in any way pass the product off as made or affiliated with Bethesda's brands.

Literally the "product" could have almost all the same features/lore provided they look different, and are not overtly similar to the "other" product.

From there those that produce the "game" could effectively steal the market out from under Bethesda like Fortnite did to Pubg.

Sounds like Atom

 

[Gizmojunk]

I have a great idea in which we all can band together and make our own Fallout game, and get away with it without using parody law to protect us.

Here's a recent precedence:
Pubg vs. Fortnite - basically the same game, but not. There are a lot of these floating about that could be referenced.

In this case all we would have to do is acquire an engine, a team, and construct a universe similar, but not the same as the Fallout universe. Tada, a completely unique intellectual property that Bethesda can't do anything about.

Why not just use the FO:New Vegas engine for a total conversion, using the provided mod tools? They give you permission to use the IP.

 

[Mr Fish]

Cause one can't make cash money over a TC mod unless it is donations and even then there could probably be legal issues.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Cause one can't make cash money over a TC mod unless it is donations and even then there could probably be legal issues.

There would be legal issues over an Fallout themed media-player skin, not to mention a retail game. There is no profiting from Fallout without Bethesda's consent, and the only consent we'll ever get is to make a non-profit mod using their tools—because they have already consented to that.
The suggestion was made to avoid legal issues.

 

[RonPaul08]

At this point why even bother complaining? Don't get me wrong, I think the absolute shekel-grubbing that's been going on with regards to the Fallout Series has been terrible, but what's the point? People who bother to use forums like NMA aren't the target audience, people who played the Black Isle games aren't the audience. The people who eat this kind of shit up are the reason we've gotten here, it's like with Star Wars how Disney could shit on a plate and it would get eaten up if it had the Star Wars license attached to it.

This is where blind fanboying has gotten (and I hate using this word due to the positive connotations it has now, it's an insult plain and simple.) The new Fallout-anything isn't for people who enjoyed F1+2 and enjoy things like having to make difficult choices or live in a bleak atmosphere, the Fallout series is now marketing itself towards the Funko Pop crowd. The people who are going to pre-Order it just because it is Fallout, buy these cards just because it is Fallout, buy whatever just so they can inflate their "geek cred" and show off to people how cool and "non-mainstream" they are.

Fallout as it stands now, and arguably among many of its "fans" isn't the Fallout of yore. It's the shadow upon the cave wall, something that has a core of dedicated fans but due to it being a "historic monument in gaming's past" was dug up for Nostalgiabux and ended up becoming another flavor of the week for the "geek" crowd.

and forgive the edit, but at the end of the day that's what these cards and other things are. Meaningless pieces of junk that offer no new insight into the background lore, the world, or things that aren't already shown in other sources. It's just jerking off the uber-whales who have more money than sense or taste.

 

[Mr Fish]

There would be legal issues over an Fallout themed media-player skin, not to mention a retail game. There is no profiting from Fallout without Bethesda's consent, and the only consent we'll ever get is to make a non-profit mod using their tools—because they have already consented to that.
The suggestion was made to avoid legal issues.

Considering they sued Mojang or whatever over the the title "Scrolls" it wouldn't surprise me if they went suehappy over Schmallout...
I suppose legal issues are unavoidable lest you wanna use the mod tools they've already provided.

Then again, with their paid mods scheme it wouldn't surprise me if that will come to an end in the future too.

 

[Gizmojunk]

True... but this doesn't effect New Vegas, I'd think... or have they patch/damaged it recently?