what a shame, what a shame...

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Fallout is the 24th, *after* *Thomb* *Raider*! After Thomb Raider!!! Eeek!!

~Dr. W95
the Super-Puper Admin
 
RE: No shit

"Who controls the past, controls the future.
Who controls the present, controls the past."

Man... Command & Conquer (the original one) was one of the best games I played in my whole life...

It's very sad, but, good games (almost) always finish having their horizon expanded to new ultra-shit like FPS, and such.

Hope that would not happen with Fallout...
 
RE: No shit

>1-I WILL buy C&C Renegade (unless
>it will really suck).

Westwood has still not figured out how to balance the units well. Or learned anything.

Tiberium Sun really blew, and it was supposed to be really good.

I'll wait and see if RA2 does well. If not, then Westwood has lost completely. Total Annhiliation had better balance and playability than Tiberium Sun, even though it was released a few years before.
 
Get over it!

He was dead since Tiberian Dawn! And Red Alert's story STANK - expecially the part about USSR and Stalin. It was also a little improvement over units and gameplay, but graphics were unchanged with the first C&C. I see big potential in RA2, however.


[p align=center]
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RE: Get over it!

No offense to anyone, but I think RA was a great potential turned into a heap of garbage.

The graphics were better, true. There was a bigger difference between sides, true.

The acting wasn't bad though, it was hideous. That bothered me more than it would if they just left out the movie sequences altogether. And it... I dunno, simply didn't have that "something". I'm not sure what, but I have a feeling like Interplay didn't make use of a fraction of what the whole idea, both in the background and gameplay sense, offered.

Quinch
 
Well hot damn!

>It's INGSOC! Signet Classic's "1984 (with
>a special preface byWalter Cronkite)",
>published in 1984 contains multiple
>mentions of Ingsoc, and nowhere
>it is Insoc!

Well hot damn, you're right. It's been a while since I've read that!

>Oh, and Comrade - you have
>Newspeak 11th edition dictionary, I
>need it doubleplusspeedwise :-)

Egads! The thought police!

-Xotor-

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RE: Well hot damn!

Hey, it seems that you are very well educated people, just by curiosity, what both (Xotor and APTYP) of you're studying?

Are you actually doing a career in an university or do you already have graduated?
 
RE: No shit

1. It's Tiberian Sun not Tiberium Sun
2. TS was not a total heap of crap, units ARE balanced. You would know if you took the time to play the damn game a few times on WOL
3. No other RTS game in history has managed to use cutscenese and FMVs as well as Westwood. (Voice of Darth Vader, guy from Terminator and magnificant 7 and shit loads of good looking CG worthy of being made into full length movies)
4. TA more balanced than TS? HAHA BS. TA must be the most un-balanced RTS game around. Krogoth for core? What about ARM? One Krogoth can destroy 3, 4 maybe even 5 ARM commanders. TA did have neat graphics. Now tell me why Cavedog is out of business and Westwood is growing?
5. Even if RA2 is utter crap retards will still buy it and keep WW alive, it won't be crap, its going to be the SAME.

As the old saying goes "If it ain't broke DON'T FIX IT"
 
RE: No shit

>1. It's Tiberian Sun not
>Tiberium Sun

Whatever.

>2. TS was not a
>total heap of crap, units
>ARE balanced. You would
>know if you took the
>time to play the damn
>game a few times on
>WOL

I have seen it played. You could make one single, easy to make cheap unit and break any defense. Just like the Grenadier tactic from back as far as C&C. In TA you can build defenses to prevent the same cheap "tactic" that EVERY SINGLE Westwood strategy game has suffered from.

>3. No other RTS game
>in history has managed to
>use cutscenese and FMVs as
>well as Westwood. (Voice of
>Darth Vader, guy from Terminator
>and magnificant 7 and shit
>loads of good looking CG
>worthy of being made into
>full length movies)

Um...wow. Cutscenes don't mean anything unless the game is any good. Hence why Diablo 2 was considered great upon first playing, but it gets old quickly. Not even out a month, and a lot of people consider it old hat. After years of gaming, you tend to ignore eye candy and focus on the game.

>4. TA more balanced than
>TS? HAHA BS. TA
>must be the most un-balanced
>RTS game around. TA did
>have neat graphics. Now
>tell me why Cavedog is
>out of business and Westwood
>is growing?

Try using the regular units, and the AI patch. Works just fine. And TS is still terribly unbalanced, as has any C&C/RA game since the invention of the Grenadier mob.

Yes, Westwood had an earlier game, and that appeals to all of the die-hards. Cavedog did a mistake with Kingdoms, but TA2 is on it's way.

Krogoth
>for core? What about ARM?
> One Krogoth can destroy
>3, 4 maybe even 5
>ARM commanders.

Oh, please. Then you have a pretty stupid ARM commander. Or you have the difficulty on Skirmish mode to "For brain-dead people".

>5. Even if RA2 is
>utter crap retards will still
>buy it and keep WW
>alive, it won't be crap,
>its going to be the
>SAME.
>
>As the old saying goes "If
>it ain't broke DON'T FIX
>IT"

There's another old saying. It's called "the same old shit, brand new look".
 
RE: No shit

"I have seen it played. "
WOW REALLY?

"Grenadier tactic from back as far as C&C"

Not in the 3 years that I’ve played Tiberian Dawn on WOL ladder (managed to make top 10 several occasions) have I see any idiot use a grenadier rush. Oh, I bet you saw someone doing that too?

You’re only defending TA (bout the cheap tactics thing) only because in CnC there's NO room for mistake (that or you suck and want to let loose on CnC). Average games on WOL take 2 minutes. It's much more fast paced than TA and it requires mass one unit type attacks. In TS you can't rush with one type of unit unless your opponent sucks. You can't get rid of rushing 100% that would take the realism out of a game, but TS managed to slow it down and balance it.

TA is a good game, too many useless units but still good, thanks to Chris Taylor. (no relation to the Chris Taylor working on BOS)

About the 3 to 4 commander thing vs. a Krogoth, I’ve used the Krogoth to take down 3 commanders but not at the same time, d-guns have very little effect and when the commanders blow up it too does little.
 
RE: No shit

>"I have seen it played. "
>
>WOW REALLY?
>

Yes, and I saw that person use the aformentioned one-unit mass rush. Not to mention that when you put 2 computer opponents together, Nod always wins. Even after the "patch". Explain.

>"Grenadier tactic from back as far
>as C&C"
>
>Not in the 3 years that
>I’ve played Tiberian Dawn on
>WOL ladder (managed to make
>top 10 several occasions) have
>I see any idiot use
>a grenadier rush. Oh,
>I bet you saw someone
>doing that too?

I've used that cheap tactic many times, and have used it effectively. A grenadier mob can and usaually WILL take out much of anything with a bit of backup.

>You’re only defending TA (bout the
>cheap tactics thing) only because
>in CnC there's NO room
>for mistake (that or you
>suck and want to let
>loose on CnC).

Actually no. Once I found out that the game was horribly unbalanced, even through to Tiberian Sun (especially Red Alert, which was a load of crap with it's unit 'balance fix') I really gave up on it. It was the seeing who could outrush the other in claiming resources and making masses of one unit, to be finished by a mass-march of death.

*yawn*

If you tried that in TA, the enemy would have one hell of an impressive pile of scrap metal sitting at the end of the range of their defense to reclaim at their leisure. Oddly enough, I'm not by far the only one who has found that the C&C franchise has been horribly unbalanced. Shit, take a look at RA and the unit balance there. The cruisers (I think) have those long-range guns, nullifying anyone who comes close. Plus the air power is lopsided and really gauche.

>Average
>games on WOL take 2
>minutes. It's much more
>fast paced than TA and
>it requires mass one unit
>type attacks. In TS
>you can't rush with one
>type of unit unless your
>opponent sucks.

Wait a second. First you are saying it requires "mass one unit type attacks", then you say that you "can't rush with one type of unit unless your opponent sucks". Either that is one hell of a contradiction, or everyone you have played against sucks.

>You can't
>get rid of rushing 100%
>that would take the realism
>out of a game, but
>TS managed to slow it
>down and balance it.

From what I have seen, read, and heard, and have taken a try at, bullshit.

>TA is a good game, too
>many useless units but still
>good, thanks to Chris Taylor.
>(no relation to the Chris
>Taylor working on BOS)

Those useless units have a purpose in coordination with all the other units. The prime tactic in C&C and on is to rush and kill. A Ben Stein "wow" there. In TA, rushing is a bit harder, and you have at least three "ways" of trying to destroy the opposition. Air, land, water. Plentiful units, for any number of uses. Submarines, ships, hovercraft, tanks, infantry, aircraft, etc. The list goes on.

You can't just build all land-type units and plan to win, or run the risk of the opponent making a good air force and strafing over your base and hamstringing it to be later cleaned out by the infantry and vehicles.

You can't build all sea vessels unless it's a water environ, as they don't all have the reach to go inland. And still, aircraft can fly quickly around them and bomb your base.

You can't build all aircraft, because they are really ineffective in comparasin to the sea and land units.

And if you think it's all "sea, air, land", then you are mistaken. The individual units have their own peculiarities.

TA players who go over to TS complain about "one-trick units", as it is favorite and effective to mob en masse with one or two unit kinds in C&C-games.

TS players whine that TA is horribly unbalanced when they are caught with their pants down when they neglect their air defense or land power, and as a result get bombed or walked over.


As far as the Kragoth, any self-respecting TA player would have a good defense to get rid of that easily before it even comes close to the Commander. With a good set of defenses, any unit can have the life expectancy of about 3 seconds when rushing.

You might know my style, of a porcupine. But the main trick with that is to have the opponent break themselves on your defenses and distract themselves while you take out their base or production units.

TA does rely on strategy more than TS.
 
RE: No shit

I've used that cheap tactic many times, and have used it effectively. A grenadier mob can and usually WILL take out much of anything with a bit of backup."

I'd like to see you try that on me someday.

"Actually no. Once I found out that the game was horribly unbalanced, even through to Tiberian Sun (especially Red Alert, which was a load of crap with it's unit 'balance fix') I really gave up on it. It was the seeing who could outrush the other in claiming resources and making masses of one unit, to be finished by a mass-march of death."

I haven't played RA enough to know that the units are un-balanced but I can tell you that the units in CnC ARE balanced, it all depends on the settings you choose.

For example , on Green Acres if you want to be NOD it would be wise to put the unit count at 5 or lower, putting it any higher could allow your opponent to stop a buggy/recon rush but if you want to be GDI you would probably set unit count to max in order to defend against a buggy rush, and most ppl can. Also most GDI players will set the tech level to 5 cuz Apache rushes are cheap and popular among newbies.

nuff bout that, plain and simple CnC is not unbalanced. If it was unbalanced it would not have sold 2 million+ units and wouldn't be in the World Guinness Book of Records (1999)

"If you tried that in TA, the enemy would have one hell of an impressive pile of scrap metal sitting at the end of the range of their defense to reclaim at their leisure. Oddly enough, I'm not by far the only one who has found that the C&C franchise has been horribly unbalanced. Shit, take a look at RA and the unit balance there. The cruisers (I think) have those long-range guns, nullifying anyone who comes close. Plus the air power is lopsided and really gauche."

Even though I've played TA more than you(probably) have played CnC, RA and TS combined I don't know EVERY SINGLE stat in the game to be 100% confident and counter your stance on TA's unit balance. But im positive that CnC, and TS ARE balanced. Heck, balanced enough for most ppl but I guess you make an exception. As I've said b4 I don't know enough bout RA to defend it but I have a hunch that its pretty damn balanced or else it wouldn't have received 9.5 from gamespot.

what else...

About TS not being dependant on rushing you said:

"From what I have seen, read, and heard, and have taken a try at, bullshit"

you haven't tried hard enough... I've played TS online mostly 4 player games bout 20+times and the only times I can remember being rushed was infantry in the first minute of the game, they crippled me but as they attacked my allie moved into their un defended base, the infantry rush didn't do much cept take out a few defenses. My allie and I went on to win that game. Rushing doesn't work, it takes a combination of tactics to win.

A popular tactic is the sub apc with Commando for NOD. You place 4 cyborgs and one cyborg commando in a sub apc and go for the con or any other important buildings. if you choose to turn of the multi engineer option you can send an APC full of engies and capture all the buildings you want. for gdi players usually try to send over a couple of disruptor tanks via carry alls early in the game. all of these tactics can be countered by any average commander.

"Wait a second. First you are saying it requires "mass one unit type attacks", then you say that you "can't rush with one type of unit unless your opponent sucks". Either that is one hell of a contradiction, or everyone you have played against sucks."

I was talking bout CnC. CnC requires one type unit rushes but that can also be countered by good commanders. In TS it's almost impossible to rush unless your playing on a small by small map with the original un patched version (which is only possible by modem since it makes you d/l the latest patch if you try to play online) using disc throwers. Now unless I've missed something its impossible to rush. Your best chance is at growing your base larger then your enemies and taking control of tiberium and crucial strategic regions such as bridges and such.

Im not trying to bad mouth TA cuz I love that game, I spread the word of TA (and burned a few copies) all through my school and I've even started a TA IP guild amongst my buddies (www.envy.nu/taguild)

TA, CnC, and TS are in my mind GREAT games. Some excel in certain areas. TA has great physics and graphics, I think CnC has got some of the most detailed sprites around, TS has got some good lighting but I was disappointed bout some aspects of the voxel engine. RA 2 is lookin good, ill probably buy it after it gets good reviews.

Who's gonna be working on TA2? cavedog is gone, GT has the rights to TA now... hope they dont fuck it up.

I'm tired, not even at my home computer...

im using my uncles piece o shit 120 with 40mb EDO ram and prolly a 1meg video card in pleasantville NJ. worst part is im on A O L

oh well , least im only here for 2 more weeks. damn, never seen so many white ppl b4 =P

oh and remember, Fallout is the best game in the world, don't let this talk about RTS games fool you =P
 
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