What Josh Sawyer wants from Fallout 4

[WorstUsernameEver]

During the course of what I imagine was a longer Skype interview on Pillars of Eternity, Eurogamer asked Fallout: New Vegas' project director Josh Sawyer what he wants to see in Fallout 4. Mods, slightly more challenging mechanics and choices that aren't black and white, it turns out:

"Fallout games are best when the choices are - and this applies to role-playing games in general, but Fallout is a more desperate world - more agonising. They feel more appropriate to the post-apocalyptic genre. So I hope that whatever twists and turns the story takes, it's more nuanced than a black-and-white choice."

[...]

"Also, you see that in the Road Warrior [Mad Max] films; Max, even when he wins, just goes on being a wanderer. There's that kind of bitter-sweet victory in the difficult choices that people make. Regardless of what the setting is, I would hope that that is a big part of the storytelling of it."

The same thing extends to the mechanics he'd like to see in Fallout 4.

"A lot of stuff I did in New Vegas was to try and make choices feel more impactful and meaningful and to challenge the player," he said. "Some people want to go through the wasteland like a tourist, which is fine - they don't really want it to be super-difficult. They want it to be interesting and engaging, and they want to see a lot of neat stuff and go through a cool story. And that's cool.

"Personally I like things to be a little more challenging," he added, "and there's a segment of players that also want [that]. I don't have any doubt in this."​

 

[naossano]

What players want is him on board. (with Chris, Tim & Co)

 

[TorontoReign]

What players want is him on board. (with Chris, Tim & Co)

Posted three times for a triple threat of truth!

 

[naossano]

I refreshed three times because internet refused to load NMA again. (and still refused when i forfeited)

 

[Atomkilla]

I refreshed three times because internet refused to load NMA again. (and still refused when i forfeited)

I've been having a similar problem too, and only on NMA. Clearing cache & cookies didn't seem to work.
I guess I should open a thread in the Vault-Tec Repair Services section, but I'm too lazy.


On topic, JES is right, as usual, and I have to agree with him. However, this is hardly anything new and has been said many times before, in this or that way.
As far as being moddable, you can be sure Beth will deliver in that aspect, but the aspect of a complex and "agonizing" choices which have natural consequences and repercussions resulting in bittersweet outcome which isn't forced upon the player (as in, YOU need to go to that radioactive chamber) is something I hope, but sincerely doubt will happen. Quite in the same way I hope, but doubt, Obsidian will have another shot at the franchise.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

No biggie, I figured that was what happened and deleted the other duplicate messages.

 

[valcik]

"Some people want to go through the wasteland like a tourist, which is fine - they don't really want it to be super-difficult. They want it to be interesting and engaging, and they want to see a lot of neat stuff and go through a cool story. And that's cool.

With all due respect, I simply can't agree with Josh here.
What I do expect from a post-apocalyptic setting is a struggling for survival in a harsh environment and non-functional society full of desperate existences. Just visit some country devastated by conventional war and you'll see that this is not the right place for tourism.

"Personally I like things to be a little more challenging," he added, "and there's a segment of players that also want [that]. I don't have any doubt in this."

That's it.

 

[Gnarles Bronson]

While there definitely are players that want more challenge, I think a lot of the new wave players don't.

I met a dude a while back who said he liked fallout, but only fallout 3. I asked why he didn't like new vegas and he said "it was too hard."

 

[Geech]

While there definitely are players that want more challenge, I think a lot of the new wave players don't.

I met a dude a while back who said he liked fallout, but only fallout 3. I asked why he didn't like new vegas and he said "it was too hard."

That's pretty shocking, because New Vegas was not a challenging game. That was probably my biggest knock against it.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

That's pretty shocking, because New Vegas was not a challenging game. That was probably my biggest knock against it.

Well, to be fair, it was definitely harder than FO3.

 

[woo1108]

Todays, too many people are too lazy to think thinking "about what should I do?" is too hard.
even jrpgs which are poor copy of real rpgs let player to find out "what should I do?" by themselves.
but beth add whole walkthrough in game so player don't have to( actually can't) think their own method to beat the game.

 

[Gnarles Bronson]

I think in FO3 you could just walk in any direction and mindlessly play; but like what the guy above me was saying, if you walk in the wrong direction in NV you run into deathclaws--you actually have to put some thought into what you're doing.

 

[naossano]

While there definitely are players that want more challenge, I think a lot of the new wave players don't.

I met a dude a while back who said he liked fallout, but only fallout 3. I asked why he didn't like new vegas and he said "it was too hard."

Maybe they don't know any better, or fear that they could be out of the new hype.
But wouldn't actually bother if the game was better.

 

[FearMonkey]

Todays, too many people are too lazy to think thinking "about what should I do?" is too hard.
even jrpgs which are poor copy of real rpgs let player to find out "what should I do?" by themselves.
but beth add whole walkthrough in game so player don't have to( actually can't) think their own method to beat the game.

There are exceptions to that. The boss fights in all three Final Fantasy XIII games were tough as nails. You had to prepare and make sure you had all the right stuff set up or you were toast.

Great games, by the way.

 

[woo1108]

I'm not talking about combat of RPG but about quest.
while RPGs were intended to let player to progress game with solving non-linear questline with logics,
jrpgs are intended to let player watch storys to progress game.
storys are linear feature and always have one answers.

actually, for combat, jrpg also did well I think.
boss fight of FFV(for japanese numbering) was quite interesting if I remember well.
and games like Fire emblem series are great combat game.

 

[Dionysus]

I don't really agree with the part about agonizing choices in the story. Fallout wasn't very morally ambiguous, and an obsession with moral ambiguity can damage a narrative if all of the choices are unappealing. For me, the most agonizing choices in Fallout were in character creation/leveling up.

I'm with him on everything else, though.

 

[Wastewander]

With all due respect, I simply can't agree with Josh here.
What I do expect from a post-apocalyptic setting is a struggling for survival in a harsh environment and non-functional society full of desperate existences. Just visit some country devastated by conventional war and you'll see that this is not the right place for tourism.

I don't know how you can disagree with that. The notion that some people are just looking for a good time, to enjoy a game without many, if any, difficulties is true. I've met people who play things on the easiest difficulty because they don't want "stress" over a game. The type of people who like being overpowered in order to breeze through the game as they wreck havoc with cool armor, etc.

 

[Lexx]

That's pretty shocking, because New Vegas was not a challenging game. That was probably my biggest knock against it.

Well, to be fair, it was definitely harder than FO3.

Only because you have to read / think more, imo.

Of course the game is hard if you run into Cazadores right at the start. A little creative thinking should help to avoid this, though. I feel that many players are unable to do this nowadays. Even I get problems with that here and there, because I am simply not used to it anymore. Super easy games around every corner and as soon as it's getting a little harder you are able to reduce the difficulty settings once more.

 

[valcik]

The notion that some people are just looking for a good time, to enjoy a game without many, if any, difficulties is true.

Of course it's true! Unlike Josh, I don't consider it fine or cool, just a little naive instead. There's The Neverhood or Fable: The Lost Chapters for those people, but Fallout? Or any post-apo game? How could anyone expect devastated world full of angry mutants or gangs of drugged rapists to be good place for tourism and friendly relationships, without difficulties?

 

[Wastewander]

Of course it's true! Unlike Josh, I don't consider it fine or cool, just a little naive instead. There's The Neverhood or Fable: The Lost Chapters for those people, but Fallout? Or any post-apo game? How could anyone expect devastated world full of angry mutants or gangs of drugged rapists to be good place for tourism and friendly relationships, without difficulties?

And I agree, as far as Fallout goes. Sawyer is merely point out what some people want out of the games. You were disagreeing with his whole statement as if it pertained particularly to you, or to how the games should be. That's not the case.

It's not about expectations, it's about escapism, and just having a good time without struggling too much to make progress in the game. What exactly is naive about some post-apocalyptic games being more accessible? Some games are just for fun, and thus likely to be more light-hearted; or to be more specific, not about exploring the ethics of a post-apocalyptic world, and that's okay.

The only thing naive about it is that Fallout, or more challenging games, should cater to those people by making things easier on the player. But that's a different issue.