What scares you?

"A largely apathetic and misinformed public racing headlong behind an ages-old, rubber-stamping, deficit-churning, red-tape generating, war-monging "In-God-We-Trust-But-We-Know-What's-Best-For-You" version of government that has only the faintest idea where it's leading the masses, who can only trust it to do so."

That's what scares me.
 
Lockout said:
"A largely apathetic and misinformed public racing headlong behind an ages-old, rubber-stamping, deficit-churning, red-tape generating, war-monging "In-God-We-Trust-But-We-Know-What's-Best-For-You" version of government that has only the faintest idea where it's leading the masses, who can only trust it to do so."

That's what scares me.
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Yes, republicans (especially young ones and under class, rural white republicans) often scare me too.
 
[PCE said:
el_Prez]
republicans (especially young ones and under class, rural white republicans)
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yep, thats me hehe.... almost.
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El Prez, don't sell yourself short.

You're more savvy than that.

I mean the basic rural, under class white republican fails to see that the Republican party has been selling them a bullshit story about family values and good religion while fucking them out of a better quality of life.

The GOP teases rural whites with tax cuts and how important it is to cut back in big government while forcing the costs on deficits onto the children of this underclass.

This happens while the GOP feeds big businesses that take jobs away from under-class white americans with generous tax schemes and denying the white under class public benefits that outweigh in value the minor taxes they individually receive.

Oh and give you record deficits to boot. Don't worry, it's the kids who have to pay.... How old are you, El Prez?

The average Joe Schmo doesn't see it because they have to work to make a living. They get their news from the local press, and the local press tries to keep things simple.

Occassionally someone comes out and says, "Hey why are our jobs so crappy, why are so many of losing work or not getting reeducated, or why is my quality of life less than what my parents had?"

But then the party says, "Yes, but we like religion and support family values, (unlike those heathen democrats who just want to give welfare to minorities). What, you want more benefits, you must want bigger government- fucking democratic liberal hippy."

Jerry Falwell has his own University with those values, tuition is close to 20K. Jimmy Swaggert owns a plantation, Pat Robertson owns a diamond mine. It's good business being a priest these days.

How can they get away with it?

Look at the 60s and 70s. With the exception of Eisenhower who was a war hero, the Republicans didn't win an election until Nixon for near 4 decades. The Republicans start to win when they start taking the South. And why, because they support segregation at the local level while Democrats (Kennedy and Johnson) are looking to spread civil rights. Ever compare the quality of life of most Blacks in the South as elsewhere?

Remember, a century and a half ago, the South was mobilized to fight a civil war on the notion of "State's Rights" which most southern soldiers probably didn't understand, but which basically secured the positions of privilege of who- big plantation, slave owners. Most southerners didn't even own slaves, but someone came up with a slogan and the South went war.

Sorry for the rant bro. But it pisses me off. THe fucking Republicans have been pulling the wool over the eyes of the average poor-middle class white person with a story of family values and religion, while the GOP fucks them in the ass with lower quality of life.

People got to wake up.

Ignorance- I fucking hate that.
 
Truth is i'm not really anything. I know politics are important but i have too much shit going on my personal life to pay to much attension to what some assholes are doing to our country this time.

You know more about this shit than me, but as far as quality of life goes... my quality of life is fine. My parents are well off (although the do spend their money on stupid shit - house, furniture, Hondas) and they help me pay for whatever school my loans dont cover. I'm 19 years old and ive been working for about half of my life. But then again if i had everything handed to me i'd probably end up being one of those asshole kids that i can't stand.
 
I think you misunderstand a main reason many poorer whites vote Republican. When a person is a member of a group, they dislike the person who picks up no slack and gets money for it, hence the dislike of welfare. Alot of democrats talk about how we need to "strengthen the middle class", but how you do that by taxing people so you could have some sort of inane program to stop a non-exsistant problem like global warming is beyond me. You acually might have a point about it being in certain people's self interest to vote Democrat, but I think they are intellegent enought to make that descision.



The Republican party has only been dominated by wacko conservatives for a short time. Before, it was essentially a realistic Libertarian party in the days of Teddy and Lincoln. We are not all wacko religious fanatics, and despite the fact that I am quite religious, I think I can seperate that from polotics unlike some portions of this party.
 
CC- since about the 1960s you have seen the big shift between Democrats and the Republicans and much of this has to do with the South.

It used to be that the SOuth was the Democratic heartland, now it's Republican.

Why? Because much of that changed with the support of Kennedy of the civil rights movement and Johnson and the Great Society.

For Southerners this was betrayal and slowly you saw the allegiance shift to the Republicans.

When McCain was running in the primaries against Bush he was a viable candidate until the Southern primaries, and here his big mistake was saying that the Christian Right was fucking up the country. Makes you wonder why he would cut himself off at the knees like that, doesn't it?

It should also make you wonder why their is an alliance between the Christian Right (which represents a lot of Southern poor whites) and the Republican party (traditionally the party of big business).

And no, sadly, I don't think most Southern whites are realizing that the tax cuts that Bush is pushing generally favor the rich over the poor, them. They don't realize that in real figures what they lose in benefits far exceeds what they pay in taxes.

Why, because they don't have the time. Usually they are too busy working. They get a sound bite that says, tax cuts. They know that Bush has given a minor pay increase to the military, and the military is big in the South. This is what they think about.

And they don't realize that the costs of this is on the backs of their kids, and if they add it up, they are losing.

I mean you have seen some of the crazy shit that some folks have posted here about the seperation of church and state- big topic in the SOuth. Who the hell is pushing this idea?

This is where the democrats, if they play their cards right, could steal votes. But that's just wishful thinking.

Al Franken's one act play, The Waitress and the Lawyer, in his new book, is an excellent piece on the consequences of current tax policy. But I am willing to bet most poor southern whites will not read it.
 
Welsh, the Democratic party has pleanty of oppertunities, I would not say that the loss of the south is worse then the hegemony you have over African Americans and second generation Hispanics.

I also think that your remarks towards southerners where condesending, and, like Howard Dean's comments, hurt Southern Democrats more then anything else. I would say that they have chosen the Conservative Moralist issues that the current Republican party is strong on then anything the Democrats have; Race and Pretention and Services are just gravy.
 
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
Welsh, the Democratic party has pleanty of oppertunities, I would not say that the loss of the south is worse then the hegemony you have over African Americans and second generation Hispanics.

I also think that your remarks towards southerners where condesending, and, like Howard Dean's comments, hurt Southern Democrats more then anything else. I would say that they have chosen the Conservative Moralist issues that the current Republican party is strong on then anything the Democrats have; Race and Pretention and Services are just gravy.
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Well I did not mean to be condescending to Southerners, being that I live among these Southerners.

I also agree that the Democrats have blown their opportunities with African Americans and that, in fact, this has increased the marginalization of African AMericans. Hispanics, however, I think will go Republican with time.

But the point I think is valid. There is strong religious sentiment in the South. There is a reason that most of the televengilists speak with a Southern twange. It's also interesting to note the leanings of the Mormons, but not the Catholics (who tend to favor democrats).

Does this apply to all Southerners, no. I live in a Democratic oasis in the midst of a Republic state.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of Southerners. I teach a lot of their kids, but I also interact with lots of them. Yes, being a Southern Baptist is important, family values are important, and tax cuts sound great.

But if you drive through Virginia and other parts of the South, there are parts that have a quality of life not much better than some parts of the Third World. Really. I mean there aren't even fucking street lights on the major highways. And the state is bankrupt, thanks to the Republican governor that came before.

Compare - quality of education, level of race issues (especially how so many African Americans are put to death here in the South compared to Whites) the number of toxic waste dumps outside Black communitites that don't exist outside white.

Then talk to about some of the older folks and how they wax nostalgic about the good ole days, and how they went to all white schools. Let them talk about how important it is about family and tradition. Hell you go in some places and they still talk about the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression."

It's the Republicans who preach state's rights, state sovereignty. What do you think that means? It means selective targetting of public funds, and it means more autonomy with regard to segregation. People often vote with their feet. If they aren't getting the benefits they want or need, they go where they can get them. So a lot of these folks will move to places were there are more social services available- generally democrat controlled areas.

My point is simple, and it applies to people outside the South as well. -

There is a relationship between the Republican Party, big business and fundamentalist and evengelical Christian religion in which all benefit at the expense of the average person. The party sells tax cuts that benefit the wealthy more than the poor (and there are an awful lot of poor in the South), lower public services (why education blows in the South) and tax cuts while preaching family values.

This is the South. Fuck this is most of the country. CC- open your eyes.

End result- the average person is getting fucked by the Republicans who sell tax cuts which are lower in return than the public services the average person would have received. They get away with by selling family values which pulls the wool over the eyes of the average citizen who is either not given the information they need or doesn't have time to figure it out.

That's the problem with South and this country. Oh and add deficits that the next generation will have to answer for.
 
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