CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
That's the thread I posted to.
And the vast vast majority of responses were sarcastic.
Who else here LIKED Fallout 4?
- Thread starter Arenchac
- Start date
Carbon Dated and Proud
That's the thread I posted to.
And the vast vast majority of responses were sarcastic.
a721402
Played FPS for decades still suck at it.
I honest believe player character act like the new kid in south park stick of truth is far more better than the commander shepard rip off in Fallout 4.
Even the player control character in stanley parable is a better character.
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TheChosen1
Moving Target
X: [SARCASTIC]That's the thread I posted to.
And the vast vast majority of responses were sarcastic.
Stick of Truth was not a roleplaying game...
a721402
Played FPS for decades still suck at it.
It have better writing, more RPG elements and more meaningful choices than a certain game was supposed to be a RPG though, and it's made by Obsidian.
CerberusGate
I should save my game in a whole new slot
Because he is an intelligent bastard and a Greek hero in a story told by someone to an ancient Greek audience. What's your point? Did you ignore my point about restrictions in RPGs as always?Odysseus kills 200 people in a single battle.
Yet in modern times, people hate Kratos (God of War 3 Kratos, mind you) even if he acts like a traditional Greek hero (powerful, larger than life but with plenty of personality flaws) while not a lot of people look to Greek heroes as inspirational figures (they are all dicks except for possibly Perseus). The value dissonance is glaring today and if the flaws are too glaring, the awesome would not be enough to cover for their horrific acts.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Yeah, I generally think Fallout should have more options to play the antihero and flawed hero. It's too binary I think. Part of why I like Robert House is that you can side with him because he's the last, best hope for humanity as the Nietzschean Superman meets Emperor Scientist the world needs or you can because he's going to pay you and you're a mercenary.
TheChosen1
Moving Target
"I think it's too binary"
Proceeds to say he likes House because he's the best hope for humanity despite NCR and Legion having their own merits
Proceeds to say he likes House because he's the best hope for humanity despite NCR and Legion having their own merits
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
"I think it's too binary"
Proceeds to say he likes House because he's the best hope for humanity despite NCR and Legion having their own merits
It's almost like I was using an example of what I wanted and the game could provide.
Weird.
The line has always been there since the first roleplaying game and the first adventure game.
First roleplaying game was Dungeons and Dragons (Pen and Paper) and so we can see what a roleplaying game is by looking at how it worked.
Then we can see through history what other RPGs share in common with the first and we can define what a RPG is by seeing what all of those games share in common. And no, controlling a character, leveling said character up or do quests are not the only things that make a RPG. Pretty much 99% of games have you controlling a character in some way, today most games have some kind of leveling up and/or quests, but that does not make a RPG, those are elements that were first encountered in roleplaying games, but are not what made that genre being a specific genre.
We also need to deconstruct all of the RPG genres too, because RPG has subgenres:
- cRPG
- Action RPG
- Tactical RPG
- jRPG
-The character or characters you roleplay use their own skills, strengths, abilities, weaknesses, and faults to interact with anything in the world. A RPG uses the character to interact with the game world, not the player. That is the fundamental rule of what a RPG is. From P&P to cRPG, Action RPG, Tactical RPG, jRPG, etc, It is always what they all have in common.
Your character(s) have stats and values and those are used in everything (usually using some kind of "dice roll" or RNG), from hitting the enemies to convincing someone that a lie is truth, from unlocking a locked door to sneak past enemies, etc.
People say that what is important in a RPG is good choices and story, a good and reactive world, believable characters, good combat system, action, dialogue, and whatever else people prefer, but that is still not what a RPG is. That is all what makes a good RPG for each of us, not what makes a RPG.
For example World of Darkness RPG system didn't have character levels, characters do not level up. World of Darkness is a RPG and has one of my favorite RPG systems ever (it is the same used in Vampire the Masquerade cRPGs too). So leveling up is not what a RPG is.
For example people say that a RPG needs quests. But quests are just objectives, and pretty much most games have objectives in one way or another. Quests are not what makes a RPG.
Etc.
Those things are not what makes the RPG genre but what enriches it instead.
TL,DR:
What all RPG genres and games have in common since the first one was created is: It's the characters stats and values that are used to interact with everything in the game world, not the player skill.
Sorry for derailing the thread... But I still don't understand why people keep making it sound like it's hard to know what a RPG is when it's the same it always was in any platform (computer/video games and P&P) and in any subgenre (cRPG, Tactical RPG, jRPG, Action RPG, etc)... Character stats are used for everything in the game, the players only decide how the character act while the rest is out of their control.
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CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
The line for me is simple.
"Do you have the option of making your own character and controlling his actions as well as decisions."
"Do you have the option of making your own character and controlling his actions as well as decisions."
Well the option of making your own character is again one of the things that enrich the RPG, not what is fundamental a part of the genre.
For example, we can't make our own character in the Action RPG "The Witcher" series and it is still a Action RPG, same goes for most Action RPGs (Diablo games for example), most jRPGs also do not allow to create a character and they are RPG (although of course they are a different genre, that is why they are called jRPGs).
Controlling his actions and decisions are part of RPG games, but again they are not what defines the genre. We can control the actions of most characters in other game genres too (platformers we can control where and when to move, jump, use special jumps/abilities, etc. FPS we can also control the character actions, fighting games and sports games are the same, etc). Also some RPG subgenres do not allow us to really decide much or anything at all except which direction we walk to and what items to use (yeah I am looking at you again jRPGs, also many Action RPGs and tactical RPGs lack a lot on that department and they are still RPG subgenres).
I see what you mean and I am not trying to say you're wrong or trying to argue, I am trying to show that it is easy to distinguish what a RPG game is because we have all the factors lay out in the open for us.
Your line is what enriches a RPG for you, because those things exist in many other genre of games and not always exist in RPG games.
Sorry, I am not a native english speaker and do suffer from some mental issues so I tend to communicate by writing in a weird and many times confusing ways. I hope I can be understood in these posts.
Cool. Just like every MMORPGRGHRC in human history I suppose.
Doing some menial tasks that no NPC cares about is NOT role playing. It's pretending. You pretend to be a farmer, miner, woodcuter, what ever. Those animations are already there anyway, because NPCs follow those so they're not just standing around, so allowing the player to do it, is hardly anything special these days. The 20 year old Gothic alreay allowed as much for the player, but that is not what made Gothic an excelent RPG for me. It just made the world more believable.
Here is some actuall role playing, just so as you know what we're talking about:
Depending on your answers and aperence, Lynette will treat you differently, even throwing you out. FOr example, if you come to her with your vault suit, she will be a lot more positive in her responses.
Or playing a low intelligence character, leads to different dialog and NPC reactions.
And Fallout 1 and 2 have many more such examples.
Did you ever had any of such experiences in Skyrim? Because as far as Skyrim goes, you can have 100 or 0 in certain skills, you can still do everything for everyone, where they always treat you the same way. Skyrim is not an RPG in my opinion, it is a theme park with joy rides that have no conection to each other. You go from Windhelm to Markath, do every shit you want, and if you fuck up, do not worry, the NPCs that matter, can't be killed anyway and if you come back after a few days later certainly everyone might have 'forgotten' about your killing spree in town. Or just pay a fine ... or what ever. And when you reached the status of a demi god not even that matters anymore. You can kill every single NPCs - that is not immortal ... - in Solitude and the Jarl of Windhelm will still make you super-awesome-duper-hero of his town after you kill a dragon.
Scrap that! Skyrim has role playing, it allows you to play a psychopath:
But that is pretty much all there is to it. Killing, Looting, rinse and repeat ...
cordelionreaver
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
So basically any game with a create a character? This includes wrestling games, some of the Soul Caliber games, and a few FPS.
Would you consider Planescape Torment a rpg? You don't create a character in it.
So you can roleplay by not actually playing the game. Meh.
That's a very superficial way to look at it.
It's akin to saying that to get from A to Be you have to move. But that has no real meaning to what we're discussing, because the kind of role playing we are talking about here, is very specific. If you extend it like that you could argue that CoD is almost as good of an role playing game like Skyrim, simply because the game gives you so many 'choices' in which way to kill the enemy. Do you take the assault rifle? The Sniper or no the knive! So many choices. However, those choices mean very little to role playing, if the NPCs and the game world shows no reaction and changes. In other words, a certain amount of limitation is actually required. You can't be Hitler and Mahatma Ghandi at the same time with the physike of a young Arnold Schwarzenegger and the mind of Steven Hawking, or display huge changes in your behaviour without people reacting accordingly. That's neither realistic nor believable. But in Skyrim you can do just that. And the NPCs won't care.
And that is, simply put, because Skyrim is an open world adventure game, and not an role playing game. It's not even a sand box game in my opinion. It really all comes down to, go there, kill stuff, collect loot.
I never said that this can't be fun though. I spend lots of hours in Skyrim, and I will probably do it again at some point, till it bores me again.
That's ok! No one here will seriously tell you what you should like - or dislike. But then maybe RPGs simply are not the kind of game for you. And I mean this not as insult. See, there are certain foods I don't like, but I would never tell the people that enjoy those foods, that their food should be changed to acomodate my taste.
But this is exactly what Bethesda did with Fallout. They took something like a Filet Mignon with a very specific recipe, and changed it in a generic fast food burger. That's certainly awesome for those that absoloutely love fast food. But it is shit for anyone who's looking for the old recipe.
The moment you're craving a certain experience, it certainly matters, and I can garantue you, it does for you as well, just probably not with games. See, I played a lot of good games over the years. But when I want to play a really great real time strategy game, then I am not turning to Battlefield 1942 but Command & Conquer 1. I am sure you could create a great C&C first person shooter, which simply blows your mind away. But if I want to play a C&C strategy game, with harvesting resources and base building, it would be a shitty choice. I mean if I asked you, if you know some really awesome adventure game like Monkey Island, would you tell me, Dude, man play CoD! - Is it an adventure game? - Hell no! But it's a great game!
That's why you have genres. For example, if the next season of Game of Thrones would play in space, with ships and light sabers simply because some marketing guy said, hey! Star Wars is sellig millions people like lightsabers and star ships! But they keept the same writing and characters, I would be pretty pissed. Because GoT is not Sci-Fi.
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TheChosen1
Moving Target
Don't give yourself so much credit, kid. Your presence here is barely noticed.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Yes, congratulations, you've proven to all of us that we are simply nostalgic. We all thought that we had valid reasons to prefer the older games, but you proved it was 100% nostalgia.
cordelionreaver
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Who are you talking to? I don't see anyone.