Why did House destroy Vault 21?

[Zorbe]

Maybe obsidian never got around to finishing vault 21 and had to come up with a semi plausible explanation for why you cant explore the whole thing.

There's a thought.

I think the expression is universal, but i don't know how you say it in english. Is it "Divide to better reign" or "divide and rule".

"Divide and conquer" is the usual translation.

Yeah, you have another good point, although it seems to me that if they weren't willing to rebel over their home being destroyed, what would it take? But I think you're right. Like Yamu said, they had little to offer him, not enough to justify the risk they posed, however small it may be.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

He just wanted to repopulate his lovely Vegas. Intelligent and radiation-free members of Vault 21 were best people for it. It's pretty well presented in the game.

But that's not who ended up repopulating Vegas. The Families were recruited from local tribes. AFAIK, we only meet three people from Vault 21, and only two stayed in the Vegas area.

That's what I'm saying. That would have been a great plan. He could have recruited the Vault 21 dwellers to run the Casinos instead, allowed them to live in the vault during its downtime, and used the Vault's facilities and expertise to provide medical services to visitors. He has plans for technological development, why wouldn't he recruit some of the vault's scientists and engineers?

Instead, he banished all that talent into the wasteland. I just can't fathom his reason for doing so.

Erm, almost all of them are there (in Vegas) not in wasteland, but you just don't see them in-game...
Again I need to quote Avellone words about game logic? ehh...

They're there. It's game logic. You don't see them for the same reason NCR is only three maps, only has 1 councilor/senator, and only about 40-50 people in its city limits. That's why the Chop Shop in Reno exists, why the bum outside of NCR offers to watch a car for you before you show up in one, and a reason that NCR built a garage in Shady Sands. So to explain "game logic" in this instance, there's nothing precious about building a car of your own if you can steal one – or if somebody else in town has one. Or in the words of one designer (me), "there's no good reason why a PC would want to undertake a fucking huge Fed Ex quest to rebuild one if they can jack one from the locals."

http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/fallout.gamepedia.com/a/a3/Ranger_at_New_Vegas_entrance.jpg
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/fallout.gamepedia.com/f/f7/FNV_concept_art_Vegas_Skyline.jpg

And the Strip in the canon approach isn't just 3 casinos because you only see it in-game... probably most of it population are former Vault Dwellers.

 

[Zorbe]

So, what is your assumption that almost all of them are in Vegas based on?

We see two individuals from Vault 21 in Vegas, one in Goodsprings who had a wife. So we see 50% in Vegas, 50% outside.

If what you say is true, then what was the point of destroying the Vault? He didn't use them to run the casinos. He didn't elminate a potential threat if they're still there. In fact, in your interpretation, he went out of his way to ensure they were angry at him.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

If what you say is true, then what was the point of destroying the Vault?

It was said in-game.
He didn't wanted to have Vault Dwellers IN vault, but in Vegas + he used all tech from it. Then he used concrete because there was risk of Vault Dwellers going back to Vault instead of living in Vegas/around it.

So, what is your assumption that almost all of them are in Vegas based on?

agoraphobia

 

[Zorbe]

Agoraphobia didn't stop Doc Mitchell and his wife from leaving.

If you have information concerning the answer to the question I asked in the OP, please share it. Don't just say you have it.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Agoraphobia didn't stop Doc Mitchell and his wife from leaving.

If you have information concerning the answer to the question I asked in the OP, please share it. Don't just say you have it.

And stopped Sarah and her brother. Even 50% would be a lot for House...
(not even mentioning that for almost all his life Mitchell and his wife were very close to Vegas/in Vegas, only at the old age deciding to go to California so it gives almost 100%...)

Using your logic, if you don't see all Vault Dwellers in wasteland, they are not there.

Also, why Dwellers should be angry for destroying Vault? They lost bet, they accepted it like perfect gamblers should. ; ) That one is already perfectly said-in game. Otherwise, they would just ignore entire bet with House and wouldn't open the Vault. ;p

 

[Zorbe]

I'm basing my assumptions on what we see in the game, what we're told in the game, and what makes sense.

If you know something I don't, then you're being extremely obnoxious by hinting at it rather than saying it. Otherwise, you're making assumptions based on nothing. "What we see" might not be everything in the story, but just because we don't see something doesn't mean it happened.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

I'm basing my assumptions on what we see in the game, what we're told in the game, and what makes sense.

If you know something I don't, then you're being extremely obnoxious by hinting at it rather than saying it. Otherwise, you're making assumptions based on nothing. "What we see" might not be everything in the story, but just because we don't see something doesn't mean it happened.

All your posts on 1 page are assuming that Vault Dwellers went into wasteland... but there are 0 indications for it... while version with Dwellers being in Vegas makes sense, otherwise House would be an idiot... and as we all know, he isn't. Why Obsidian would create such hole in bethesda-style?

 

[Zorbe]

The topic of the post is why House did what he did. If you have a theory that answers this question that involves residents staying in the area, tell us what it is. Don't assume we can read your mind.

I assumed most of them left because House is very exclusive about who stays on the strip, the only two people from the Vault we meet on the Strip are special cases. Sheldon was recruited for his talent, Sarah had to persuade House to let her run the hotel. Doc Mitchell and his wife left, we encounter in the wasteland.

Even taking conservation of detail into account, if Obsidian had meant for the population of Freeside to consist mainly of Vault 21 Dwellers, they suffered a HUGE failure to communicate that.

Do you not see any difference between the assumption that a population went somewhere you can't follow, and the assumption that a population is invisible? If Obsidian suddenly announced that 90% of the NCR troops had been super mutants the whole time, I think even you would question why you didn't meet a single one. Saying "Well, the troopers portrayed in game are the 10% that are human." would not be an acceptable excuse.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Do you not see any difference between the assumption that a population went somewhere you can't follow, and the assumption that a population is invisible?

The problem is, that you don't see any non-casinos/hotel/special buildings in the Strip, but in canon for sure there are a lot of them there. Royality of the Vegas isn't consisting of only 3 families, but some "normals" too. If not Vault Dwellers, then who? Families are just running casinos... they're not only inhibitants of the Strip.

Not without reason you have completely separate reputation for the Strip.

, the only two people from the Vault we meet on the Strip are special cases.

And why they're special cases?
.
.
.
Because they can have some interaction with the player! That's why.

For same reason we have Mitchell... because he is important for the player action.

Do you realize that you don't see ANY (wastelander/inhibitant of the strip) generic Vault Dweller from #21? Now it makes sense?

 

[Zorbe]

The problem is, that you don't see any non-casinos/hotel/special buildings in the Strip, but in canon for sure there are a lot of them there. Royality of the Vegas isn't consisting of only 3 families, but some "normals" too. If not Vault Dwellers, then who? Families are just running casinos... they're not only inhibitants of the Strip.

Not without reason you have completely separate reputation for the Strip.

Ok, cool. That's your theory. Is there any particular reason you couldn't have just said "I think that..." instead of being condescending and acting like it was so incredibly self-evident you'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise?

And why they're special cases?

I meant that they're special cases because there are reasons they would have stayed even if most people left. There was no special reason Doc Mitchell and his wife would have decided to roam the wastes.

Look, I'll admit that it's not clear-cut that everyone left. But you have no more reason to believe everyone stayed. We're both speculating, so I'd appreciate it if you'd drop this patronizing attitude.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Ok, so answers for you with evidences.

Why he destroyed Vault?
For tech.

Why he filled it with concrete? He just didn't wanted to have Dwellers there.

Sarah:

Mr. House has everything to do with Vault 21. He tried to get us out before he filled it with concrete.

Then youre asking, why he didn't used them for casinos. You already answered it.

He tells the courier he doesn't care how people live their live

+ small bonus.

I don't know! Maybe he didn't want anybody sneaking around down there.

 

[Mathius]

This thread has me confused. I thought all of the tribals who now run the casino were from families descendant of vault 21....That was the way I understood it and I thought that was the whole point.. they were all gamblers, so House just organized them to run his casinos and kicked the other's out (ie. filled the vault) for not supporting him.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I thought all of the tribals who now run the casino were from families descendant of vault 21.

Not sure where you got this idea from, since the in-game lore is pretty clear that Vault 21 was sealed up until House contacted them.

The Three Families were definitely not gamblers in their tribal days - listen to Benny or one of the Chairmen (either Swank or the guy who greets you in The Tops) talk about life pre-Houe and it's clear that they were living like any other band of raiders - i.e. references to gecko-skin garments and a brutal culture with trial by combat. No references to blackjack or roulette (maybe Russian roulette?).

House also fills you in on the tribal history of the Omertas (formerly the "Slither kin"), and we can surmise that the White Glove Society liked to eat their victims...

Also, it wouldn't make any sense if the tribals were the descendents of Vault 21 dwellers, since the former inhabitants of Vault 21 are still very much alive (Doc Mitchell, Sarah, Michelangelo, etc).

 

[fred2]

Is it ever stated what his motivation for doing so was? It's not like he needed the real estate, since he ended up leaving it there anyway. He tells the courier he doesn't care how people live their lives, so I don't think he thought he was doing it for their own good.

It seems kind of out of character for him to seize private property like that for no tangible benefit.

Because the vault was his achilles heel? striping it apart and filling the top level with concrete so it appears like there is nothing of value there is far better then placing a squad of Securitrons guarding the door.