Yazman
It Wandered In From the Wastes
We know that yeah but not everybody dives into the lore as deeply as we do.. the Fallout Bible tells us a lot but there's not much in the actual game to tell us otherwise, besides one or two quotes.
Why do so many people hate the Shi/Hubologists?
- Thread starter Yazman
- Start date
It Wandered In From the Wastes
We know that yeah but not everybody dives into the lore as deeply as we do.. the Fallout Bible tells us a lot but there's not much in the actual game to tell us otherwise, besides one or two quotes.
When I first came across San Fran I would say I was rather indifferent. I liked the hubologists simply because it gave me a good laugh, plus blowing away Tom Cruz and Niki Goldman was fun. In all honesty my favorite place in San Fran was the old tanker simply because it felt more falloutish; a old rusting hulk of a ship inhabited for squatters - perfect. They really could of pulled off the whole rotting ship city in Fallout 3 alot better then they did, but thats a topic for another day.
I have no problem giving credit to Bethesda when it's due, especially if it's in one of the vanishingly few places where their intent seems to overlap that of the original designers': I actually agree that Rivet City was the superior ship to be on. As much as I loved the concept of the original tanker, the execution (and the actual vagrants) stuck out as badly as anything else in the game. (Well, anything else OUTSIDE San Fran, anyway.)
San Fran in general just kind of felt like the designers got lazy towards the end of the game. All of it's quests were self-encapsulated save for the ONE that had you travel a piddling distance up the coast, and there weren't any quests from the outside world that involved it at all. None of the three factions, as detailed by others in this thread, could really justify their continued existence (even within the flexible logic of the setting), their backstories were full of holes, and the flavor was just out-of-tune with every other location in the game. Even New Reno made an effort to hold on to some of that "frontier" flavor. The Shi, on the other hand, came completely from left field, and the Hubologists were literally a joke. Those two factions were basically just placeholders put there so you'd have someone to jockey for fuel with. Any group of people could've taken their place and it wouldn't have affected the rest of the game at all. To make two such utterly surreal and replaceable factions the narrative linchpin in the home stretch of your journey is, frankly, inexcusable design.
San Fran in general just kind of felt like the designers got lazy towards the end of the game. All of it's quests were self-encapsulated save for the ONE that had you travel a piddling distance up the coast, and there weren't any quests from the outside world that involved it at all. None of the three factions, as detailed by others in this thread, could really justify their continued existence (even within the flexible logic of the setting), their backstories were full of holes, and the flavor was just out-of-tune with every other location in the game. Even New Reno made an effort to hold on to some of that "frontier" flavor. The Shi, on the other hand, came completely from left field, and the Hubologists were literally a joke. Those two factions were basically just placeholders put there so you'd have someone to jockey for fuel with. Any group of people could've taken their place and it wouldn't have affected the rest of the game at all. To make two such utterly surreal and replaceable factions the narrative linchpin in the home stretch of your journey is, frankly, inexcusable design.
Hell, speaking of empty, they didn't even bother to place a single item on any of the (non-shop) shelves in Chinatown. Just another example of them phoning it in by the time they got to the end.
Agreeing Rivet City was the better rusted hulk? Nay nay, I said the reverse, mind you I spent perhaps fifteen minutes in Rivet City and I can acctually quite see where you're coming from. Regardless we can agree that San Fran needed work, but come on, blowing away a alternate reality Tom Cruise? You had to of atleast enjoyed that, haha.
I don't really care about blowing away Tom Cruise.
If they had left San Fran out, Fallout 2 would have been much better. A (non kung-fu) Shi settlement and the tanker to the Enclave was plenty. I think they just wanted to cram more content in there. The Hubologists have no place in the game.
I like the communist Shi idea. It would have made them unique in contrast to the "every man for himself" wasteland. There could have been some smart, philosophical quests come out of it.
The Shi could have had a little bit of kung-fu, I'll concede.
If they had left San Fran out, Fallout 2 would have been much better. A (non kung-fu) Shi settlement and the tanker to the Enclave was plenty. I think they just wanted to cram more content in there. The Hubologists have no place in the game.
I like the communist Shi idea. It would have made them unique in contrast to the "every man for himself" wasteland. There could have been some smart, philosophical quests come out of it.
The Shi could have had a little bit of kung-fu, I'll concede.
Rev. Layle
A Smooth-Skin
Blowing away a Tom Cruise-alike was not that memorable.
I don't care for San Fran - just a ripoff of Scientology and elements from Big Trouble in Little China and a bad stereotype of orientals.
While I think the setting is less out of place, than say, New Reno.... at least New Reno was entertaining and interesting. San Fran is just... *yawn*, like someone phoned that one in.
I don't care for San Fran - just a ripoff of Scientology and elements from Big Trouble in Little China and a bad stereotype of orientals.
While I think the setting is less out of place, than say, New Reno.... at least New Reno was entertaining and interesting. San Fran is just... *yawn*, like someone phoned that one in.
New Reno works as a post-apocalypse city, just not really one you'd expect in Fallout. And like you said, it's a fun place.
SF doesn't work as anything.
The tanker was kind of a WTF moment for me. The one working ship on the west coast is a friggin' billion ton oil tanker? The thing's hull hasn't rusted out in 150 years? Yeah right.
Hijacking a vertibird would have been a nice quest and more sensible alternative. It could have given Navarro a point aside from making talking Deathclaws.
Argh. I love the game but sheesh.
SF doesn't work as anything.
The tanker was kind of a WTF moment for me. The one working ship on the west coast is a friggin' billion ton oil tanker? The thing's hull hasn't rusted out in 150 years? Yeah right.
Hijacking a vertibird would have been a nice quest and more sensible alternative. It could have given Navarro a point aside from making talking Deathclaws.
Argh. I love the game but sheesh.
Chaito
Led Storm.
Josan12 said:I think when it comes to assessing versimillitude in a game, we gotta ask ourselves 'how did i feel when i very first encountered this aspect of the game' (in this case, the shi)
Well, when i first encountered them, it jarred me. I was enjoying ploughing through the awesome post-apocalyptic retro-future western style world, and most everything just 'seemed to fit'. Kind of like the oracle says in 'Matrix reloaded' - 'the programs that are doing what they're supposed to do you don't even notice'
As soon as i encountered the shi i felt like something was wrong, and the beautiful illusion the game was weaving for me was cracked a little.
Now, i could jump into the intellectual break-down of if the crew of a submarine has enough crew to start a town, how many people are required to make gene-pool healthy, what kind of society they would make etc. And good points they are.
But for me, the most important thing is how these 'added ingredients' taste. If they taste good they make me want to keep on eating. IMO, when BIS sprinkled in some 'gangland' mafia stuff in the form of New Reno, i lapped it up cos it tasted great and went with the rest of the meal. But they threw in a dash of Bruce-lee, kung fu, eastern culture it tasted bitter, like too much lemon juice, and put me off my food a little ....
I agree!!! but indeed i think sanfran was put there only to put the last quests of the game... the vertibird plans, the tanker, etc... but it is a city that smells like WTF.
UniversalWolf said:
No!!! when the enclave appears is the "OH MAN!! IS MORE THAN I JUST THOUGHT".... The Hubologist are crap, if you dont like them, you make them suffer very easily... the enclave is a harder enemy, that you have to disguise... You can beat them only beating Frank Horrigan and no one else, but it is harder to cleanup the hole navarro and enclave, and the best part.. you have quests as a "disguise" enclave patrol in navarro
.I like a lot the role of the enclave, in a part of the game, you see inmerse in a Mayor role that you didn´t seek... like the mutants in FO1, but this appears to be worse
and you can talk with them xDSorry for the bump, but I didn't want to make another thread. The opinions contained below are the sole property of Cheomesh, and are as mist -- of no value and easily destroyed. That said, let's have some fun.
I found the Shi a little strange at first, but I did kind of enjoy the city a little, if only for the hilarious Kung Fu stuff (currently running a hand to hand character). It was interesting that someone was attempting to science their way out of the world that they're in, though I couldn't quite reconcile a religious group and a highly scientific group being right next to each other.
I believe the longevity of a submarine crew is a moot point. We're apparently near China town, so I think (again, opinion, nothing we say here actually matters as it's not cannon) it went down a bit like this...
China was fighting a losing war, was low on resources, and probably strung out for morale. This sub cut ties with the old, oppressive regime (I personally know Chinese citizens who are *not* fans of how things are going down over there), and made for the closest area, probably to surrender -- best to live out the war as a POW than go home to a forsaken nation, where you are probably not going to be favored by anyone.
However, in Chinatown, they might have found sympathizers. They might also have simply bribed their way into being left be, parting out their sub etc. In time, maybe the citizens of Chinatown were attracted to this new influx of traditional culture, essentially Chinese citizens who were not even fans of their old regime, and wanted to bring back their interpretation of the "old ways". Kung fu kinda thing was probably fairly recent -- not a whole lot going on there other than "work" as they say, so you have to get passionate about something.
Anyways, I just thought it was a faction that grew up around a half-assed attempt to re-make China as they remember it.
Also, I figure the tanker might have been made of a very rust resistant material. It is the future after all.
M.
I found the Shi a little strange at first, but I did kind of enjoy the city a little, if only for the hilarious Kung Fu stuff (currently running a hand to hand character). It was interesting that someone was attempting to science their way out of the world that they're in, though I couldn't quite reconcile a religious group and a highly scientific group being right next to each other.
I believe the longevity of a submarine crew is a moot point. We're apparently near China town, so I think (again, opinion, nothing we say here actually matters as it's not cannon) it went down a bit like this...
China was fighting a losing war, was low on resources, and probably strung out for morale. This sub cut ties with the old, oppressive regime (I personally know Chinese citizens who are *not* fans of how things are going down over there), and made for the closest area, probably to surrender -- best to live out the war as a POW than go home to a forsaken nation, where you are probably not going to be favored by anyone.
However, in Chinatown, they might have found sympathizers. They might also have simply bribed their way into being left be, parting out their sub etc. In time, maybe the citizens of Chinatown were attracted to this new influx of traditional culture, essentially Chinese citizens who were not even fans of their old regime, and wanted to bring back their interpretation of the "old ways". Kung fu kinda thing was probably fairly recent -- not a whole lot going on there other than "work" as they say, so you have to get passionate about something.
Anyways, I just thought it was a faction that grew up around a half-assed attempt to re-make China as they remember it.
Also, I figure the tanker might have been made of a very rust resistant material. It is the future after all.
M.
TamaNeko said:
Why is that a problem when it was so brilliantly executed? (spelling?).
I'm sick of all those complaints. Plus, tbh - it isn't that unusual.
Why shouldn't the hubogolists be there? The only thing that's kinda ridicilous are the two celebreties. But why not?
I thought F1 was far more boring (like a 8/10 instead of a 9/10 game) but maybe that's just me. Sure, Fallout 1 was a bit more realistic. But Fallout 2 does happen further into the future and closer to the big cities so it's nothing weird.
Meh
el_jefe_of_ny
Still Mildly Glowing
I was looking up posts... saw this one. Can't disagree more. Hubologists were great. And, they are in encounters, and in NCR. Can't beat a retarded cult! and yes, TOm Cruise reference was awesome.
Now, I actually have met Hubbard's daughter at the church of scientology in Manhattan. I took a couple of free classes there for acting for fun to see how they are. They are HUBOLOGISTS 100%!!!
Now, I actually have met Hubbard's daughter at the church of scientology in Manhattan. I took a couple of free classes there for acting for fun to see how they are. They are HUBOLOGISTS 100%!!!
NyquilAddict
First time out of the vault
The thing I hate the most about San Fran is how you can steal all of the money from the shopkeepers every time they restock.
Cheomesh, that makes since. I always kinda thought that the area we visited in San Fran was the China Town District. Since this is an alt reality, maybe Bruce Lee didn't die and became some sort of Chinese-American hero to be worshipped. Yeah, the only way the sub crew could have survived is by way of Bruce Lee's Chinatown. Maybe it is a fortress of Jeet Kune Do fighters. j/k
pipboy-x11
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Funny, I liked SF in FO2 a lot. When I first played FO2 and get to SF, I've quickly started feeling like "finally, some peaceful place".
Guys, who talk that "they should be more Communists" - are you sure you know what you're talking about? Chinese always lived in communities of some sort. And their current communist regime is just another dynasty. The society is almost 4 millenniums old and doesn't change. So the Emperor fits its place just right, IMO. My only complaint is that the city looks unfinished, compared to other cities, where you have community places, churches, and so on. They could add tea house or something like that for the atmosphere, and a Buddhist temple. Also no side quests from small folks in the town itself - looks like the location has been rushed and therefore feels "plastic". Still I honestly don't get why some people hate the place so much. But it's probably a matter of personal preference.
Guys, who talk that "they should be more Communists" - are you sure you know what you're talking about? Chinese always lived in communities of some sort. And their current communist regime is just another dynasty. The society is almost 4 millenniums old and doesn't change. So the Emperor fits its place just right, IMO. My only complaint is that the city looks unfinished, compared to other cities, where you have community places, churches, and so on. They could add tea house or something like that for the atmosphere, and a Buddhist temple. Also no side quests from small folks in the town itself - looks like the location has been rushed and therefore feels "plastic". Still I honestly don't get why some people hate the place so much. But it's probably a matter of personal preference.
^ I sort of agree. There's really no reason that the isolated leadership that survived with the rest of future SF population would turn back to communism that was soundly and with a bang defeated in the war. If they did, they wouldn't last long, anyway. As such, their control of the city is no less, just using different methods.
For the Hubos, though, the whole space project feels off. I also thought SF had a plenty of "small quests" although perhaps not enough for a city that big. A plenty to do, still.
For the Hubos, though, the whole space project feels off. I also thought SF had a plenty of "small quests" although perhaps not enough for a city that big. A plenty to do, still.
fallout_fan
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Isn't that huboligist guy married to a porn star? I remember that clearly and they had a space shuttle. The huboligist were pretty weird. But all I remember is the porn star wife. I never paid uch attention to anything else. Especially not the chinese guys in San Fran. I think thats a spoof of Big Trouble in Little China. Wasn't there some guy named lopan?
Rather than just poo pooing the Shi and Hubologists, or San Francisco in general, let’s turn this thread around and work out a way the developers could have made this work better. Such as - improved quests, better maps, more interesting and appropriate characters (It’s easy to cut down - hard to build up). You guys know this game inside out and I’m sure there will be some interesting answers.
Indecently I have rebuilt the maps for San Francisco for RP 2.0 – hopefully it will be considered an improvement – but that is just a superficial face lift and I didn’t touch any of the essential elements…so what would of make the Shi and Hubologists work better.
Indecently I have rebuilt the maps for San Francisco for RP 2.0 – hopefully it will be considered an improvement – but that is just a superficial face lift and I didn’t touch any of the essential elements…so what would of make the Shi and Hubologists work better.