Which is why all this speculation is frowned upon by serious historians.Crni Vuk said:
Ehm, I never said that. Or anything remotely resembling that.Crni Vuk said:
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Well if Atlantis had all this neato high tech shit, it most likely will have influenced our modern technologies in some way. Thats means the folks who got the credit might not deserve it ALA Asassins Creed.
Not to mention as someone else said it would be pretty fucking depressing to know there were ancient civilisations who fucked themselves into oblivion and that current state of humanity might well be going the same route.
Also the mention of aliens might freak people out, if they are aliens. A lot of our history would be meaningless and folks would be pretty pissed off about how we were lied to for quite some time.
I mean there is plenty of hypotheticals out there. I will end it off with maybe a Tesla esque scenario. We have all this wonderful tech that could make MANKINDS life easier but those power hungry controlling rich uber fucking douchebags were like noooo, free electricity???? Heavens forbid.
Not to mention as someone else said it would be pretty fucking depressing to know there were ancient civilisations who fucked themselves into oblivion and that current state of humanity might well be going the same route.
Also the mention of aliens might freak people out, if they are aliens. A lot of our history would be meaningless and folks would be pretty pissed off about how we were lied to for quite some time.
I mean there is plenty of hypotheticals out there. I will end it off with maybe a Tesla esque scenario. We have all this wonderful tech that could make MANKINDS life easier but those power hungry controlling rich uber fucking douchebags were like noooo, free electricity???? Heavens forbid.
This has happened before. Ever hear of the Roman Empire? There are plenty of other examples of well established ancient civilizations taking a nosedive. Ancient Egypt went down a number of times, but managed to remember their history and culture, and kept coming back until Caesar came along. Most such declines are slow to happen. Atlantis, as described, went out abruptly and dramatically. That captures peoples' imagination, which is one reason why we're talking about this.DarkCorp said:
Well, for one, Atlantis is just a story about a lost civilization. All this other shit you're mentioning is conspiracy theory tripe.DarkCorp said:
But even if Atlantis was relatively advanced and people at some point based tech on that, why would current governments need to keep that secret? What, exactly, is the objective there?
:::SILUS:::
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Sander said:
The real history of mankind?
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
@Sander
1. Control
Look at human history for the biggest example. Those with the biggest beat sticks usually ended up being dominant while others ended up with pinata status. Humanity has always had a nasty competitive streak which only gets worse as populations grow. So imagine if any sort of government with reasonable access to resources were able to take advantage of lost tech freely?
2. Credit
If lost technology did influence modern technology then people would maybe atmost deserve half-credit for reverse engineering shit. All of a sudden, we would not be as smart and innovative as we had thought ourselves to be. Religion, how we developed as a species, heck, history itself would have been one big fabrication.
I am playing a bit of devils advocate here but there are good reasons why governments would like to control information. Otherwise we wouldn't have a problems with espionage and things like Operation paperclip would have been un-necessary.
Most likely however Atlantis, if it existed, was just another contemporary world power that ended up fadinng into obscurity like thier brethren.
1. Control
Look at human history for the biggest example. Those with the biggest beat sticks usually ended up being dominant while others ended up with pinata status. Humanity has always had a nasty competitive streak which only gets worse as populations grow. So imagine if any sort of government with reasonable access to resources were able to take advantage of lost tech freely?
2. Credit
If lost technology did influence modern technology then people would maybe atmost deserve half-credit for reverse engineering shit. All of a sudden, we would not be as smart and innovative as we had thought ourselves to be. Religion, how we developed as a species, heck, history itself would have been one big fabrication.
I am playing a bit of devils advocate here but there are good reasons why governments would like to control information. Otherwise we wouldn't have a problems with espionage and things like Operation paperclip would have been un-necessary.
Most likely however Atlantis, if it existed, was just another contemporary world power that ended up fadinng into obscurity like thier brethren.
Atlantis didn't fade, it went out abruptly. If you subscribe to the Santorini theory it went BOOM.
Yes, everyone assumes that for no reason whatsoever.DarkCorp said:
What? How does having an ancient city that used to be technologically advanced negatively affect the view people have of their contemporary leaders? If anything, those leaders would try to use Atlantis to legitimize themselves.DarkCorp said:
Which is what you actually see happen with technological wonders. India doesn't try to hide the ancient cities it keeps finding, but flaunts them to build the perception that 'India' was incredibly advanced in ancient times. Governments use and bend history to promote themselves and their nation whenever they can. They don't try to hide shit just for fun.
For two, throughout most of the late middle ages and renaissance most of Western Europe operated under the assumption that they all sucked and were just re-discovering what the Romans and Greeks knew, because those classics were awesome. The idea of there being an ancient civilization that was more technologically advanced than contemporary civilizations has already played out in history.
So if there was somehow a magical superdestructive weapon in Atlantis and some government found it, why haven't they used it? Or, if they have, then why do we not know about Atlantis after the fact?DarkCorp said:
Shit doesn't work like that. Advanced technology doesn't just stay hidden. I mean, aside from the idea that there would be any kind of actually advanced technology in an ancient city is completely retarded.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
@Sander
You said it yourself Sander. Shit like the pyramids and the great wall were confirmed to have been built by our ancient pre-decessors. Now those same predecessors building chariots that flew in the sky and rained horrific destruction upon cities? Not so much. We manipulate only that which we can understant with everything else being deified or magic.
The weapon could be too old and fucked up to function. Its existance could have been broken down by time and weather to barely disintguishable parts. The whole city of Atlantis is supposed to be how old? Not to mention it was supposed to have been hit by a cataclysmic force of nature? Anything that remained would have been ancient history by Platos time and pretty much wiped out by our time. I doubt even our modern day bunkers/submarines/cars/etc would survive thousands of years in the weather without any sort of protection.
You said it yourself Sander. Shit like the pyramids and the great wall were confirmed to have been built by our ancient pre-decessors. Now those same predecessors building chariots that flew in the sky and rained horrific destruction upon cities? Not so much. We manipulate only that which we can understant with everything else being deified or magic.
The weapon could be too old and fucked up to function. Its existance could have been broken down by time and weather to barely disintguishable parts. The whole city of Atlantis is supposed to be how old? Not to mention it was supposed to have been hit by a cataclysmic force of nature? Anything that remained would have been ancient history by Platos time and pretty much wiped out by our time. I doubt even our modern day bunkers/submarines/cars/etc would survive thousands of years in the weather without any sort of protection.
Starseeker
Vault Senior Citizen
I don't mind the Aliens talk, since it's much better than usual boring religious talk. It really doesn't make that much more difference to me whether you call it God, Allah, Zeus, Vishnu or Aliens. Of course, I'll probably get tarred and feathered to say that in certain places around the world, but a belief is just a belief. Who was it that said advanced science will look no different than magics or miracles to ancient people? I am reminded of Doraemon here but I digress.
As for advanced ancient technologies, well, a lot of things were invented for sure (we are finding a lot of evidence everyday), but they were never mass produced for public use. Robots, steam engine, and sophisticated mechanical clocks were all invented in very early days of history, but they just weren't in practical use. (most of it were probably the amusements of the rich or for Kings to show off his wealth and splendor) Therefore the technologies were either lost due to death of inventor or just other simple historical reasons. Speaking of Greeks, Aristotle even envisioned that one day robots might take over manual labor so he would be able to abolish slavery. Well, how long did that take?
As for real life Ooparts, well, it's not like they don't exist per se, but most of the time, they just aren't confirmed. Frankly, if something like this doesn't exist to kick some scientists out of their chair once a while, it would be pretty boring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
As for advanced ancient technologies, well, a lot of things were invented for sure (we are finding a lot of evidence everyday), but they were never mass produced for public use. Robots, steam engine, and sophisticated mechanical clocks were all invented in very early days of history, but they just weren't in practical use. (most of it were probably the amusements of the rich or for Kings to show off his wealth and splendor) Therefore the technologies were either lost due to death of inventor or just other simple historical reasons. Speaking of Greeks, Aristotle even envisioned that one day robots might take over manual labor so he would be able to abolish slavery. Well, how long did that take?
As for real life Ooparts, well, it's not like they don't exist per se, but most of the time, they just aren't confirmed. Frankly, if something like this doesn't exist to kick some scientists out of their chair once a while, it would be pretty boring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
:::SILUS:::
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
DarkCorp said:
This post is gold.
Arthur C. Clarke said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." This may have been the case with whatever historical civilization, or civilizations, that may have inspired the stories of Atlantis. On the Minoan site of Akrotiri, which is being recovered from volcanic ash, archeologists have found preserved sophisticated artwork everywhere, walls up to 8 meters high (in the city, not a palace), multi level buildings with the oldest known indoor toilets, and dual pipe systems indicating hot and cold running water with the hot water coming from geothermic sources. Such advances seem rather mundane to us, but in the Bronze Age 4000 years ago, this was remarkable. To other people this might have seemed magical and may have been one inspiration for Atlantis.Starseeker said:
It would not have taken "death rays", "flying chariots", or "aliens" to generate such legends in ancient times. Ancient people did create some absolutely amazing things, without extraterrestial help, and much was lost for thousands of years in some cases for various reasons. Death ray talk is one of the main reasons why mainstream Science doesn't accept Atlantis theories.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Interest in lost civilisations isn't hampered by conspiracy theories. Its just the whole subject of history is boring to your average folks.
I mean we have the pyramids, tenochtitlan, great wall, taj mahal, haiga sophia, etc, etc. its all been seen before already.
I mean we have the pyramids, tenochtitlan, great wall, taj mahal, haiga sophia, etc, etc. its all been seen before already.
Unquestionably, the wild stories sell books, magazines, and even movies to the masses. They can be a lot of fun and there's no reason not to enjoy them as fiction. But, it's the archeologists and history buffs who do the serious work in the field digging for the truth; emphasis on the word "work". They earn their living and build their careers on such uncool things that some of the masses might consider trivial and boring. They take their jobs as seriously as anyone else. I'm sure it bugs the hell out of them to have people try to turn their endeavors into cartoon fantasy.
It's sort of a catch 22. They don't like people taking ancient death rays and aliens too seriously, but that public interest helps generate funding they depend on for their work. Can't win.
It's sort of a catch 22. They don't like people taking ancient death rays and aliens too seriously, but that public interest helps generate funding they depend on for their work. Can't win.