Why the attachment to overhead/top-down isometric POV?
- Thread starter Eternal Dragon
- Start date
When was the last time anyone tried it?xdarkyrex said:
Vault 69er
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
xdarkyrex said:
Well, when was the last time one was made?
And when has one ever been made with a bloated budget and relentless hype machine to help sell it?
I'm of the opinion that western developers, particularily American ones are stuck in a gigantic rut. Probably due to companies like Troika and Obsidian being bullied into submission by idiot publishers. And EA. Goddamn EA.
You have the odd ones here and there like Firaxis still producing something good, but mostly it's a cesspool.
Temple of Elemental Evil would be the last instance of a good decent budget one I think.
It made money, but not as much as anything else in the action-rpg genre.
How do we explain this, that even shitty action-rpgs (BG
A) can make more than a pretty good tun based rpg (ToEE)?
It's entirely possible that it has to do more with lack of console market penetration (that's where the money is at) then actually gamers preference, I'll at least give you that.
If Oblivion was only released on the pc, its end profit would have been markedly lower.
Here, while googling to try and see if I missed any important rpg's to see if my opinion was unwarranted, I stumbled across this blog.
http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2007/02/action-vs-turn-based-rpgs-evolution.html
While I do not fully endorse all points, the general tone and idea seems to be spot on and elucidates my point quite well.
It made money, but not as much as anything else in the action-rpg genre.
How do we explain this, that even shitty action-rpgs (BG
A) can make more than a pretty good tun based rpg (ToEE)?It's entirely possible that it has to do more with lack of console market penetration (that's where the money is at) then actually gamers preference, I'll at least give you that.
If Oblivion was only released on the pc, its end profit would have been markedly lower.
Here, while googling to try and see if I missed any important rpg's to see if my opinion was unwarranted, I stumbled across this blog.
http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2007/02/action-vs-turn-based-rpgs-evolution.html
While I do not fully endorse all points, the general tone and idea seems to be spot on and elucidates my point quite well.
Well, shit, even Van Buren was supposed to have real-time combat and turn-based combat with focus on the second...xdarkyrex said:
Troika with their resources managed to pull off some demo with fpp/tpp/iso so it's completely possible to make Fallout tpp/tpp/iso AND tb/rt.
I don't care if tpp and rt would work because I'd go with tb and iso but the fact that bethesda doesn't care about this just shows their lack of creativity...
"Hai, I be todd, let's make fps games forever, k?"
its not about the camera angle.. its about the decency of the game. system shock is system shock, the game is good as with its own camera angle. trying that with baldurs gate would just be stupid. same would happen if you made oblivion birdside view. best graphics are not always the first person view ones
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
When I hear about the console market, I reach for my Browning!
How about the lack of marketing, the bugs, the fact that it was essentially just a dungeon crawl and the not-so-glowing press? It was still one of the top-selling PC-games for Activision, by the way.xdarkyrex said:Temple of Elemental Evil would be the last instance of a good decent budget one I think.
It made money, but not as much as anything else in the action-rpg genre.
How do we explain this, that even shitty action-rpgs (BG
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I agree - ToEE was a complete marketing failure - the publisher failed to inform the potential buyers about the strongest points of the game.
From what I recall ToEE ads were so vague that they didn't even make me consider spending ~100 Polish Gold Pieces on the game.
From what I recall ToEE ads were so vague that they didn't even make me consider spending ~100 Polish Gold Pieces on the game.
Sander said:
The point I was trying to make was that the publishers out there are all so averse to risk (which I can hardly blame them for as people who run business) that until a good mainstream tb game that captivates the "casual" gamer comes out its going to continue fall by the wayside.
Unless its Japanese
Maybe someone ought to get a Japanese publisher to fund a western development team
Also, why is it that pretty much ALL of the good western crpgs suffer from the same recurring symptoms? bugs and marketing and whatnot.
If only Troika had good marketing and good quality control
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
It seems that they could use a weekend marketing school.
Jarno Mikkola
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
No, you just need to buy the right kind of products and know where they are!xdarkyrex said:
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/ Which brings me to my original subject in this thread; Why, cause the rules are part of the game, and they allow multitude of characters to pass the game with their own styles, like the diplomat char that goes through both game in about 30 mins, with our firing a shot.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzSOKi_t5fg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZvMq2F-O14[/youtube]
Vault 69er
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
xdarkyrex said:If only Troika had good marketing and good quality control
I don't know. Bethesda seems to do quite well with all the quality control capabilities of a chimpanzee and two hamsters playing with an Atari VCS.
Jarno Mikkola said:No, you just need to buy the right kind of products and know where they are!
I own the exile trilogy + blades, the first 3 avernum games, and all 4 geneforge gamesI'm actually playing through geneforge1 again right now
Vault 69er said:
I've actually never had problems with Oblivion or Morrowing bugs.
VistraNORREZ
First time out of the vault
Sorrow said:
That's how life is. It's the perspective of every day life. It is the most intimate way to experience anything.
Would you rather experience your first kiss by watching it from 20 feet in the air, only seeing the bare essentials of the event? Did you not enjoy the Talking Head segments in the original? Tell me that didn't wow and impress, as well as making you attached to some of those characters. It's a fact of human nature that seeing a face helps greatly in emotional attachment. The FPP is as close as videogames can get right now to initmacy (touch sensations are the next step).
It may be just an opinion but it is the opinion of Bethesda, can you atleast respect that? You don't have to like it, but don't condem it until it's finished and you've played it.
And Sander, I don't appreciate you calling my opinion horseshit.
You're only soiling NMA's reputation more.
And just for record, there is no justification for being disrespectful.
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Really? Do you suffer from permanent tunnel vision and some kind of disability that stops you from moving your eyes and neck?VistraNORREZ said:
Because that's the perspective that "FPP" games offer.
No. To me most intimate presentation of a world is reading a book. Kissing in a FPP game would be pretty pathetic.VistraNORREZ said:
Don't assume that I'll pay Bethesda for making FINO3. Or that I'll play FINO 3. That's disrespectful.VistraNORREZ said:
No it isn't. A first-person perspective is not the same as experiencing things as if you are that person. There's peripheral vision, for instance.VistraNORREZ said:
Also, ever heard of people who get nauseous from a first-person perspective? Yep, that happens too.
Yes, that's not a great impact. But really, is a first-person perspective more intimate? I can't actually reach out and do anything, I'm not going to feel like I'm actually there just because the camera is posited where there are supposedly a couple of eyes. It isn't more or less realistic than an isometric perspective. It *is* a functional perspective for a shooter.
And besides that, 'intimacy' is about as useless a qualifier as possible (and not the point of Fallout either).
Have you ever actually kissed someone? Do you realise most people close their eyes when kissing? Do you also realise that kissing is about feel, not about the perspective you experience it from?VistraNORREZ said:
And for the umpteenth time, the isometric perspective in a 3D environment does not, in any way, prevent one from seeing faces. Most of the objections to the first-person perspective are because of the combat. Dialogue is completely irrelevant to that.VistraNORREZ said:
We are *not* condemning Bethesda's game as a game. For the millionth-and-threeth time, we are only condemning what we have seen so far *in the context of a Fallout game*. Why does everyone who comes around to criticise that fail to see that? We don't give two shits if Bethesda feels the first-person perspective is a better perspective than the isometric perspecitve.VistraNORREZ said:
What we *do* care about is the fact that Bethesda sees fit to throw away Fallout's design in favour of their own design. *That* is what we are pissed about.
I don't recall calling your opinions horseshit there, but nice straw man. I called your supposed facts horseshit, since they are horseshit. You claimed that Fallout was made as mainstream as possible. Which is a horsehsit claim, and this has nothing to do with opinions.VistraNORREZ said:
Horseshit. There can be plenty of justifications for being disrespectful. And if you're easily offended, maybe this simply isn't the place for you.VistraNORREZ said:
Kan-Kerai
Still Mildly Glowing
Have you seen the kissing scene in Jedi Knight II?
That was some of the most awkward shit I have ever had the misfortune of witnessing. I literally had no words.
It probably would have been BETTER in isometric. At least with that, you can just type up a rough description and let the player's imagination go to town.
That was some of the most awkward shit I have ever had the misfortune of witnessing. I literally had no words.
It probably would have been BETTER in isometric. At least with that, you can just type up a rough description and let the player's imagination go to town.