Enclave or Unity

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by SiriusShenanigans, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans First time out of the vault

    Jun 27, 2018
    I would never argue that Dick Richardson or Frank Horrigan alone could match up to the Master in terms of impact or cool, but I think that overall, the Enclave makes for a really striking satire of the US and its problems that it makes for a good comparison. Who do you think was the better villain faction and which represents fallout better as a whole?

    On one side you have the Master and the Unity. Gruesome, yet logical. The Master is trying to save the fading light of humanity by ushering in a new age without conflict. One people, united by his mind, equal with no dividing sense of self between them. They might be the best hope for the wasteland if it wasn't for their grievous oversight. He has an army of giant monsters that are strong and uniform. They don't need to think when guided by his voice worming his way into their minds. They are an enemy that hits at primal fears of humanity.

    On the other, you have The Enclave, the marriage between corrupt self serving politicians, military elite, and affluent wartime aristocracy, the very people who would start the war that would end the world, yet in those final days before the apocalypse they decided that they were too important to die, and thus abandoned America to its fate. The enclave is unreasonable. They will hear no counter argument and negotiate with no tribal terrorists. They are hellbent on destroying the impure wasteland for the "True Americans" even if that means killing every one in the wasteland and the world. They are a satire that reflects problems with America even today, they are the enemy that stays with us even when we stop playing the game.

    Which do you think is the better villain?
     
  2. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat First time out of the vault

    Apr 8, 2012
    Enclave. they did always found their new leader and still keep their fascist ideology afloat. (not sure about what happened to them in F3), yet without significant numbers and leaderships, they can still be talked out to work with their former enemy (New Vegas) through NCR never forgives them. not sure if the leaderless Enclave will ever find any refuge and accept wastelanders leadership and entrust them their grudge against NCR? Enclave is pretty weakened by now..

    Master simply too obsessed with evolution, and once he's died (slain or commit suicide after PC brought Vree's Autopsy Report to him and tell him that 'All Super Mutants are Sterile' and later '.... but it does now!' (can't remember a full dialog but if you choose properly) he will commit suicide, a silent countdown where .. if you disguise as The Children of the Cathedral... you can walk out witout alarming any.) . Neither Unity nor The Children survived as an organization. the Children scattered and not hearded from since, Super Mutants are scattered across the land, never ever united again.... some still clinge to Master (like Tabitha, or 'Dog' in Dead Money), others (like Marcus (2 and NV) and those later found in Jacobstown (NV) and shown more humane side to the visitors) left the Unity behind and move on.
     
  3. FDO

    FDO First time out of the vault

    Jul 4, 2018
    NCR in F2 does a better job at representing the wrong sides of western modern societies, from a european view at least, I never went to the US.
    The enclave, well I don't know what to make of them in F2. Aside from their advanced technology, they suffer the same problem than the hubologists, they are too 'obvious', ridiculous even. They look fun the first time with their old US soldiers routine, and catching a little chat with one of those at the Gecko central is also fun.

    But that's it, even in term of faction and not individuals, they don't leave me much to think about like the Master does. The Enclave just leave me with a doubt, if they should have make it in the game at all, in their present state.
     
  4. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat First time out of the vault

    Apr 8, 2012
    Weren't NCR in F2 politically and socially followed much of the Latin America rather than the prewar United States of America? One of the four NCR endings (and not canon), was that after many NCR leaders in the cabinet were killed, the rightwings who survived staged a Coup d'Etat and created Military Junta... and granted Encalve a new home (or host). keep in mind that
    1. NCR Constitution is different to ones of the USA.
    2. NCR Presidency lasts for life or impeached. (by plebiscite or congressional vote.. not sure)

    Neither did I live or ever visit the US.
     
  5. FDO

    FDO First time out of the vault

    Jul 4, 2018
    I have no idea if the NCR governement was inspired or have similarities with latin america. All I am saying is that they represent corruption, megalomania and the special sickness that come with power just fine, all by being hidden behind pretty curtains exactly like, well, any government, or any major power, that claim to be civilised nowaday. I wrote 'western' before, but it also apply to east as well. Humans never change.

    My problem with the Enclave is that beside the typical US cliche things going, like I said it's fun once or twice, but they really have nothing appealing, questionning if despite what they do, they might even have a reason, or something, anything to give them a other dimension.
     
  6. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat First time out of the vault

    Apr 8, 2012
    And too bad Beth didn't expand what happened to them after they lost Washington D.C. by the end of F3 Broken Steel DLC, and where did the Enclave Remnants in Mojave go if they joined Endgame Battle of Hoover Dam (nor establishing any canon ending in FNV beyond that Robert House was betrayed by his hireling (i.e. the Courier) and died... as said in F4 ???)
     
  7. Sublime

    Sublime First time out of the vault

    Jun 5, 2018
    D
    Don't Remember that part of Fallout 4
     
  8. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Absolutely the Enclave.

    Wonderful satire, fascinating concepts, excellent history, and hateable villainy. While everyone is enamoured of the Master, I never really saw much of the moral ambiguity people think. He's destroying everyone and remaking them as semi-mindless collective tools of his gestalt. He's about as morally ambiguous as the Borg.

    The Enclave, though, subverts patriotism and its ideals to make a compelling case for its existence.

    If you're one of the clean.
     
  9. Sublime

    Sublime First time out of the vault

    Jun 5, 2018
    Enclave

    'Cause




    By the way I'm European
     
  10. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    The Unity is obviously from my perspective the better villain faction.

    Why? Because Mariposa Super Mutants were not some chumps walking around with guns. They were big green grumpy chumps with heavy weapons immune to disease, radiation, and who knows what else.

    The Enclave on the other hand is a bunch of brain washed Neo-American Nazis.

    The Unity was a veritable wrecking force perfectly adapted to post war America. Sure they didn't have Vertibirds but they had super mutants that would follow orders or die trying no matter the cost. You think an Enclave soldier is going to charge an overseer's minigun chair? Hell no, but a big brutish super mutant sure as hell will.

    The Master's Lieutenant was not down to clown, the moment the vault dweller encountered him it was pretty much game over if you were brought to him.

    The roaming bands of heavily armed super mutants, floaters, and centaurs were tough to handle. All the Enclave would do is literally stand there and shoot at the Chosen One. Which in case you never tried it, give Enclave encounter bowling a chance. Go get a rocket launcher with high explosive warheads, then go find an Enclave patrol, shoot with rocket launcher, and enjoy.

    You can't go super mutant bowling, why? Because their patrols have range and melee 100% of the time.

    If the Master was never defeated I would not be surprised if the entirety of post war America would be under his control in a swift manner. Also the Enclave are a great source of PRIME NORMAL HUMAN. Geeze, letting those two lock horns would be like feeding a Tyranid Hive Ship an Imperial Agri world.
     
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  11. tgawt

    tgawt ye ass

    Jul 9, 2018
    fallout 2 was a wasted opportunity with the enclave. felt like those themes of corruption and greed the enclave represent werent explored very well? fnv did that better (in my opoinion)
     
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  12. Pwener

    Pwener Tunnelers? They Don't Sound That Tough...

    Aug 15, 2017
    True. They come off very moustache-twirling with how affably evil they are in F2. Hell, Fallout 3 actually showed them much more human with the whole Nazi "just following orders" thing they kind of hamfisted them with.
     
  13. hag

    hag The Master Did Nothing Wrong!

    Aug 21, 2016
    I must be in the minority because I hated the Enclave. Antagonists need pathos to make an impression on me, and Frank Horrigan is a glorified bogeyman. There is no moral quandary about their goals. They're simply bad. No reason to empathize with them whatsoever.

    For all its flaws, sterility, paternalism, &etc, the Unity was created with the sincere intention of saving humanity. Yes, Richard Dickson & co. likewise imagine themselves saviors, more or less. However, their conception of humanity is limited only to those deemed pure. The Master's plan preempts the "us"-versus-"them" mentality that leads to chauvinist organizations.

    Unlike the Enclave, there is a little good in the bad. The Unity may be considered an anti-villain faction. Superior by default, in my view.
     
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  14. Norzan

    Norzan Mildly Dipped

    Apr 7, 2017
    Yeah, i prefer Unity much more. The Master's plan is actually pretty good: turn every human into a being far stronger than an human and immune to radiation, the thing that plagues the whole wasteland. Plus the Master is better written than the Enclave in my opinion.