@Tagaziel Due to the other thread being majorly derailed, and us talking over the same points over and over again, when there are a plethora that I have yet to even mention, here's a comprehensive list of every writing issue I had with Fallout 4. I wanted to see if you had a response to them. If anyone else has any issues they'd like to bring up, please feel free to bring them up here. Factions The Institute seem to have pointless goals. They waste resources making Synthetic Gorillas, there whole slogan is "Mankind Redefined" but when a project actually involves redefining mankind(The Cybernetics project) Shaun immediatly cancels it. They seem to have no thought put in to efficiency or how to run the Institute at all, and before you say "You can change all that", that's not the point, the point is that this faction is inherently flawed, and instead of being part of the story, these are oversights. You can't mention "Why waste resources making Synth Gorillas?" or "Why cancel these projects", the answer is they didn't think it through, or at least didn't think it through enough to make you able to ask simple questions. The Railroad literally advertise there location to the world, and before you say "They would be gone if someone they didn't want to see them came along", what if someone followed the Freedom Trail, and started a siege outside?, The Institute has armies of Gen 1s and 2s who could stand guard outside and trap the Railroad in. They could easily just detonate an atom bomb or mininuke inside the church and trap the Railroad under piles of rubble. The Railroad making there position obvious gives them no advantage(They could recruit by observing interesting people and inviting them), and puts them in a very vulnerable position for no apparent reason. The entire point of the Railroad is there role in the Synth debate. If you don't care about the whole Synth Debate(Which I will explain why I don't later), an entire faction becomes pointless The Brotherhood repairs Liberty Prime to literally punch a whole in the ground. They waste resources remaking this gigantic robot, to do what they could have done with mining lasers or spades or explosions. They waste all this time working on a giant robot, put it in potential danger, create something which could be used against them, just to punch a whole in the ground. They don't even bother using it for anything else. The Minutemen are about as generic as you can get. Remember how the BOS in Fallout 3 were basically "Help people, we are the good guys!"?, That's literally what the Minutemen were in Fallout 4. Good-hearted people who wanted to protect people, with no intricacies or depths. As black and white as you can get. Nobody ever mentions what a faction victory would mean for specific communities, how all the factions you interacted with would prosper under certain regimes. New Vegas has every tribe and town having some level of involvement in the politics, in Fallout 4 other than everyone agreeing "Fuck de Institute", nobody really shows any concern for the bigger picture, or what certain victories would mean for them. The long-term of factions is rarely mentioned. Fallout New Vegas is full of people speculating how long Legion can last after Caesar's death, or whether the NCR is growing overextended, with Mr House estimating that he can get colonies on the moon in 50 years. Fallout 4 never even bothers to mention what happens long term to certain factions. The best we get is a lazy "You are in control, you decide"(Which NV actually does well by questioning your competence as a potential leader). If we ignore the faction leadership for a moment, the Institute would presumably stay underground forever, never helping the surface, making them a poor choice, the Railroad would save synths forever and ever, the Minutemen helping settlements forever and ever, the Brotherhood would wipe out Mutants and Synths, and then what?, What happens next?, Not a single thought is given towards this. The whole Synth debate is half-arsed to begin with. Bethesda takes an already existing debate on Artificial Intelligence, adds literally 0 specific context to it, gives each faction a stance(The brotherhood thinks they are a threat, the Railroad thinks they are people too, the Institute thinks they are just advanced toasters), and calls it a day. Synths have no context which seperates them from any other AI debate, and no factions have any new reasons for it, they just repeat the whole "There just machines" or "But machines like this are people too", and the writers assume you already have a stance in this debate, refusing to give any new, fresh points, or why a certain faction is right in the context. The game doesn't give us reasons to support any of these stances, it just assumes you have a reason On the topic of synths, Bethesda did nothing at all interesting with them. Imagine if Synths thought in different ways to humans did, had more fact-based to-the-point minds, had some basic proggraming they couln't override, had anything interesting with them. They are basically just humans with human personalities, no thought given in to what it would be like to be an artificially made human, or how there minds may differ. They think like humans, and that's the way it is, with no further questions. If you want to see the topic of AI explored properly, where there is any genuine doubt to be had that these things have human emotions, where there's a logical way in which they are bound to there programming, yet at the same time a sensical way as to how they developed AI look at the Fallout: New Vegas mod "Autumn Leaves". That has an actual good way of handling AI with a unique context, instead of the bogstandard "What if humans weren't humans but machines? oooh spoooky!" If every faction in the game is poorly wrirtten, with little thought put in to them or there stances, then the main storyline is honestly a pile of crap. Side questsThis may sound harsh, but I am going to say, completely seriously, that pretty much every side quest in Fallout 4 comes under two categories: Simple quests which can be summed up in 3 sentences with no great loss of complexities, and gimmicky quests that fall apart under scrutiny and ultimately add nothing. Under the first category, think of The Gilded Grasshopper(Go chasing a mettalic grasshopper treasure, find the grave of a famous Boston figure, get a magic sword. The End), Cuirtain Call(Go through a tower of Supermutants to rescue a Shakesperean Actor, Recruit a Supermutant obsessed with a misunderstood line. The End.), Here Kitty Kitty(Talk to Vault Dweller, Go find her cat, Bring cat back. The end) You may think that's oversimplifying, but have I lost out anything important in explaining those quests? The other category, are gimmicky quests, poorly handled that don't hold up to scrutiny. Think about these quests: The Dissapearing Act, a quest added for the sake of a murder mystery, although it's handled so poorly it's completely unentertaining. Instead of having red herrings, and clues a series of suspects, and a plot twist, ect., you just follow a bunch of clues, get led directly to the guy responsible, who you've never met before, and solve the case(Not to mention the plotholes caused by him literally staying down there several days, not doing anything about it, nobody bothering to check on him, nobody demanding plastic surgery, not even his colleague entering the basement in the meantime, ect.). Another quest like this is Kid in the Fridge. The game furthers your suspension of disbelief, adds plenty of plotholes(A kid being locked away for 200 years not being at all psychologically damage, his parents remaining in the same house for 200 years, that nobody heard him for 200 years, ect.), all for a crappy escort quest with basically non-existent writing. Even flight of the USS Constitution, which I thought was one of the best side quests, is basically a giant gimmick. SettingApart from the Institute and the Railroad EVERYTHING about the setting is as bland as you can possibly get. You have so very few unique towns or tribes or factions with there own goals. Nobody vying for power apart from the generic good-guy Minutemen, no unique tribe or post-apocalyptic factions or gangs(With the exception of the Atom Cats who are post-apocalyptic greasers), everyone else You have generic raider goons threatening dead end farmsteads and towns. Even Diamond City which is supposed to be the game's main trading hub, has very little going for it. It adds new interesting twists they could have taken to an interesting turn, which are just thrown away as nothing. Diamond City establishes that there is a class inequality, doesn't bother to show it beyond a small scene, and doesn't even bother to explore how it effects day to day life, it establishes that the Mayor is a synth, doesn't bother to explain how that effects the lives of everyday people or what happens without him. It establishes that the Mayor is censoring journalists, but this doesn't effect anyone outside the small bubble that Piper is in. Everything is oozing with potential, which is completely disregarded, in return for a generic town with generic people and a generic governing system. CharactersWith no exceptions, I am going to say that EVERY character in Fallout 4 is the most boring character in Fallout 4. Not a single character came across as interesting. For me at least, not a single character was hateable, not a single character was likeable. Every character was as one dimensional as they can get. Fallout 1 and 2 had all there complex characters in the form of talking heads, which were usually the most interesting characters and the ones the dev put the most thought in to. New Vegas had less interesting characters, but at least the companions had a great depth to them, and were interesting fleshed out characters. Even the companions who are ever so slightly better written, are still one dimensional with Cait being the addictedtoliterallyeverydrug drug addict with the standard tragic backstory, Piper at first seeming like a cool journalist character with a cute nickname for you, until you realise there is nothing more to her than being a cool journalist character with a cute nickname for you(Who is worried about her sister becoming a cool journalist character, because she has no depth beyond her job), Danse being a literal mouthpiece for the Brotherhood of Steel who ends up becoming the thing he hates, and instead of seeing actual character proggression or a conflict with himself, still remains a mouthpiece but with a slightly less harsh attitude to Synths, Nick being a standard noir detective with the standard noir tragic backstory. I have not found a single character with any depth to them beyond the very basic. Miscellaneous/Minor Enemy types are boring AF. What happened to having Raiders from different gangs, like Raiders being called "Yakuza" or "Vipers" or "Jackals", rather than just having hundreds and hundreds of generic "Raiders" everywhere. Also, already mentioned this but Supermutants add very little, have very little of an actual reason to be fighting you, and have a very basic unfleshed out culture. Boston Bugle Building is contradictory to the very core of the setting. Post-war US is supposed to be near to an open dictatorship, with rioters being shot in the streets by power armoured soldiers. I fail to see how a trustworthy newspaper can get away with exposing state secrets/questioning the war efforts, or at least there is no reference to them being silenced. Clearly Bethesda cares more about loot placement than lore, given that they made up that bullcrap "Nuka Cola has the best chemists" to justify military grade equipment in a fucking theme park.