Fallout 4 after replaying New Vegas

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Irwin John Finster, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    That's a glitch. Something Bethesda never intended to be used and would have patched out if they weren't too busy being lazy and incompetent spazzes but keep telling yourself otherwise.

    Now to bring up how New Vegas built up companion affinity because I feel like it (LOOOOOOOOOONG post incoming):

    Craig Boone starts out not trusting the Courier a lot even after completing his quest since he has trust issues. Only after assisting him in wiping out major Legion camps, rescuing slaves and more would he open up slowly to reveal his actual problems that have plagued him after leaving First Recon since the Courier had fought alongside him, listened to him and given support to him throughout these instances.

    Veronica Santangelo starts out friendly but does not talk about her current issues and dilemma to some random stranger she's following. By bringing to places where advanced technology is being used by the other factions in the Mojave will she open up about these issues and her current dilemma since she slowly makes up her mind about her own conflicting views about the current Brotherhood.

    Arcade Gannon can be convinced to join you and from his intellectual comments, he appears to be a highly knowledgeable member of the Followers but when the Courier takes him to locations with a certain type of advanced tech, he starts to slip up on where that knowledge comes from. Getting him to trust the Courier by performing actions he agrees with (or convincing him how the Courier's current actions align with the well-being of the Wasteland) will eventually build enough trust to convince him to reveal his secrets to the Courier and whether or not he should live up to his legacy.

    Raul Tejada starts out as a sarcastic and aged companion but has his own issues and doubts that he does not feel like talking about to someone who he just met even if said person saved his life and all. By bringing him to other elder folks who are still working past their prime, he begins to question himself and wonders what he should be doing next which the Courier can answer to help Raul with his issues and doubts about being of service despite his advanced age.

    Lily starts as a sweet though intimidating Super Mutant who treats the Courier like her old grandchild due to the onset of Schizophrenia from being a Nightkin and age affecting her. By learning about her, the Courier is able to consider the type of person she is and eventually help her decide on the best course of action for her when the matter about her medicine dosages comes up. (This one had more impact on me because upon hearing that tape and how much her grandkids meant to her, I could decide immediately even after my one hour debate on what to do when I got to this point)

    Rose of Sharon Cassidy is a smart-mouthed caravan owner down on her luck but starts out friendly (plus the skill-checks allows the Courier to build a rapport with her better). There was no need for a quest to build up friendship with her since the Courier would have built a rapport with her by negotiating for the sale of her defunct caravan company (or beating her in a drinking contest) but the Courier can help her settle her lingering doubts about what happened to her ransacked caravan.

    Rex and ED-E do not have any affinity building but this is because they don't need such things; one is an Eyebot that is programmed to be loyal (though Lonesome Road changes this to an extent) while the other is a dog told by his previous master to be loyal to the Courier. They make up for this by having plenty of history and backstory to them.

    One thing in common for all this is the differing outcomes for these companion story-lines and how different these companions are due to the outcomes.

    Boone can be made suicidal but more deadly through guilt or be convinced that he is still capable of redeeming himself through atonement. This changed mindset even affects his ending and changes based on who took over New Vegas in the end.

    Veronica can choose to plug her ears to the failings of the Brotherhood to stay with her family or abandon them to become a wanderer free from the Brotherhood while anonymously aiding others in handling tech.

    Arcade can embrace his legacy even with the implications of being a known Enclave Remnant or choose to turn his back on it to live out the rest of life free of his past as a doctor.

    Raul can decide to retire in peace as a simple mechanic after everything he had gone through or reinvigorate him so that he could embrace who he was before and continue using his still-present skills as a heroic gunslinger.

    Lily can be convinced to stop taking the medicine entirely (at the cost of allowing her savage nature to take dominant control over her), take the full dosage (which cures her but erases her old memories) or maintain the half dosages (which keeps her the same as before but prevents her from being cured).

    Cass can enact bloody revenge on the Van Graffs and the Crimson Caravan with the Courier's help or be convinced to destroy the two groups through legal methods. Both options grant her a different perk to reflect her mindset by the end of her quest-line.

    As for Rex and ED-E, the former can be given a new brain that affects the kind of personality Rex may have by the end of the Courier's story while the latter determines which group obtains the technology housed in ED-E.

    TL,DR; The companion affinity of New Vegas worked by being consistent and feasible in terms of writing and mechanic integration. It was built up by giving the characters motivations and ideals that the Courier could agree with in-game through dialogue and actions. From what I can tell by slogging through FO4, FO4 tried to do something similar but they ignored the writing and complexities involved in New Vegas which led to the whole lockpick a door or use drugs etc system to gain approval. It was a stupidly dumbed down system after New Vegas that reflects Bethesda's approach to Fallout games: To never learn from the mistakes of the past or never truly improving from good ideas already implemented by other content makers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
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  2. Someryguy10

    Someryguy10 First time out of the vault

    Jul 8, 2016
    Well said. They are all so varied, I love the NV companions. It bothers me that fallout 4s are ALL stereotypes

    The slightly strange(synth) noir detective, The peppy papergirl, The brute/Supermutant(a REALLY safe companion for fallout), The BoS Paladin, The goodnatured but naive do-gooder(Preston), The Irish brawler, The mercenary with a bad past. The list goes on..
     
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  3. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    It's the only thing Emil knows how to do these days. Make stereotypes with limited (or no) depth while Obsidian's writers knew how to play around such stereotypes or even deconstruct them. There is a reason why KOTOR 2 is considered a deconstruction of Star Wars.
     
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  4. Immortalkickass

    Immortalkickass First time out of the vault

    Dec 4, 2015
    I guess the main difference of the companion system is, in NV i never once felt that I had to 'farm' for companion affinity just to see more of their content. Its absolutely the shittiest part of the companions in F4, besides the bad writing and all.

    I tried farming for Piper's affinity by spamming lockpicking on a container that can be re-locked with a terminal... it was so boring that i decided, fuck this shit, i got a mod to speed up all affinity gain and remove all negative affinity. I mean wtf, it even has a built-in 'cooldown' to prevent you from spamming it. This is all on top of all the bullshit like companions joining you the moment you meet them, but refuse to give any reason (locked behind the stupid affinity system), no real dialogue with them, only the few canned lines by pressing 'Your thoughts?' Holy shit you call that a dialogue? And characters are so poorly written like Piper, whose voice i really like, but have a stupid logic (loves lockpicking, hates stealing). Preston, who is so dull, voice so flat, no character whatsoever, annoying as fuck by shoving settlement quests down your throat.

    Then there's Paladin Danse, who claims to hate synths, but when i bring him along to do Institute quests, all i get is [Danse hates that][Danse dislikes that]. Apparently i have to work really hard to trigger him to say something about it. In NV, if the companions hate something, you can feel it. Arcade will give a few snarky lines the moment you complete a Legion quest, and Boone will outright shoot them. They don't give you many chances either, 3rd times the final warning and they will leave you.

    God, Boone was such a great character. When i first met him, i thought he's the typical ex-military guy, how interesting can he be? Turns out, he is the most badass mofo to walk the Mojave. You can feel his hatred for the Legion, one warning and that's it, Legion heads popping everywhere you go. He don't give a shit if you're wearing Legion disguise, he pops them all the same. This makes him feel like a sniper, instead of just another gun-totting companion.
     
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  5. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Annoying thing about Raul is that you best get him and bring him with you before you talk to 3 NPC's, if you don't you can't finish his personal quest. That always bugged me, there should be more characters who can trigger his "woe is me".
     
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  6. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I will attest to this. Had to reload after I realized that his dialogue did not trigger and then had to make a mental note about who to not talk to before getting Raul.
     
  7. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    What? Really? Just today I repeated conversations with Ranger Andy, despite having exhausted his conversations like weeks ago.

    Of course, I've played with YUP and Jsawyer mods, so they probably fixed those part. I don't know.
     
  8. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Probably those mods fixed it. I'll add that I encountered that particular bug on a relatively unmodded playthrough. I'm using YUP now but I'm too afraid to find out in-game if it does fix fix this particular bug.
     
  9. Risewild

    Risewild Half-way Through My Half-life
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Not to mention that Rex has a real hatred of hats (like the King mentions) in the actual gameplay.
    For example if you have a hat equipped when first talking to Rex, he will start barking at you because of his hatred for hats. He will continue barking if you or your other companion still wear a hat. He will bark at other people if he sees them wear a hat. When Rex is a companion and the player talks to him via the Companion Wheel, he will growl if you have a hat equipped. You can then talk to him about hats and convince him that you're "on the same side," and he will then no longer growl about your hat.

    Also the way Companion perks work in Fallout 4 is a bit stupid. "Oh I love you so much now, now you have a new ability thanks to my love!" *Dumps the companion somewhere and never again talks to him/her. Still have the ability. Rinse and repeat for all companions.* Because it is not cool not be able to have all the stuff at the same time. Fallout New Vegas only allowed to have the perk while the companion was following the player, but that is totally stupid! What we want is ALL THE PERKS at once! Now that is what Fallout is all about :postviper:
     
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  10. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I can't believe I forgot to mention the hat thing. I've brought shame onto my ancestors and will atone for this with this picture shamelessly borrowed from Pintrest (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/530369293587790296/):


    As for companion perks in FO4, I agree. I never quite got why I still had MacCready's perk in FO4 even after I dumped him in a random settlement or any other companion perk for that matter. Wouldn't I have to have a companion accompany me for the perk since it is their perk that the Courier is using? Come to think of it, the perks you unlock for completing companion story-lines actually are given to the companions since it is they who have been impacted by your intervention and have learnt something from you. I guess such notions never crossed the minds of Bethesda or they did and Bethesda thought that people want ALL the perks regardless of story and game-play integration :postviper:.
     
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  11. whirlingdervish

    whirlingdervish Brahmin Cavalry Commander

    Jul 3, 2007
    There is an order of magnitude of higher quality writing in that post merely outlining the FONV companion quests than there was in the actual writing of anything to do with companions in all of FO4.

    They should pay CerberusGate to take Emil's job.
     
  12. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Gotta dumb down because God forbid the developers make something challenging in the game besides the challenge of attempting to play it.

    Oh boy another one

     
  13. Shardik

    Shardik Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 5, 2015
    Thanks for the translation - I flunked gibberish in school. :mrgreen:
     
  14. tsteele93

    tsteele93 First time out of the vault

    Mar 25, 2018
    Just wanna say thanks... I was digging through a drawer and found Xbox one FO4 and PS3 FONV and was wondering what to play.

    Googled FONV vs FO4 and found this site...

    Made the choice easy for me. Loading up New Vagas now...

    Shows you how old stuff on the internet can be useful. Thanks!
     
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  15. TooManyFingers

    TooManyFingers Mildly dehydrated

    Mar 20, 2018
    Playing through NV for the zillionth time and even now I'm finding little pieces of plot I'd previously missed.

    As for Boone, he had me the moment I removed his beret and he calmly, but bemusedly said "I'd really like my beret back, please." Just one of those nice little touches you don't get in F4.

    His whole questline just gives you the mindset of pure camaraderie that I've not seen in the game following it.