Why Mothership Zeta is awesome

Atomkilla said:
I am starting to believe that @CT Phipps is a very well versed troll. No, wait, I want to believe it. A troll that managed to fool us all. Good going.

If not, then he is an utter idiot. Opposite spectrum of idiotic that Dragonborn (or whatever his name) was on, but idiot.
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Alas no, I just really enjoy silly fun sci-fi adventures along with the more serious Fallout adventures.

I admit, Mothership Zeta doesn't have any choices and very little conversation despite having a surprisingly large cast.
 
My love of Fallout can be summarized as such.

Pew-Pew-Kitty-clean_large.jpg
 
CT Phipps said:
No, but aiming with my Power Armored warrior to VATS the eyes of Frank Horrigan is.

Pew pew!

:)
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Combat is all good well.

My favorite playthru is still my Legion survivalist run helmed by an increasingly bloodthirsty Courier. Then again the machinations and manipulation are what made that one so special--undermining NCR from within as opposed to slaughtering them wholesale, at least until the very end.

There's still a lot to be said about playing a character that relies primarily on wits, charm, and cunning to achieve their hands. Negotiate, sneak around, and/or rely on better-armed and armored companions to avoid dirtying your hands in direct combat, and then talk down the likes of the Master, Legate Lanius, and General Oliver.

I certainly appreciate games that allow me the opportunity to do so.
 
Dr Fallout said:
...
I now see that almost every game having the spectre of violence is now obviously a dumb ass shooter built only upon blood and death.
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I'm confused by the attempt to downgrade the importance of the violence in Fallout or be ashamed of it. Then again, I don't consideer Fallout 3 to be a dumb shooter but a very smart one.
 
CT Phipps said:
I'm confused by the attempt to downgrade the importance of the violence in Fallout or be ashamed of it. Then again, I don't consideer Fallout 3 to be a dumb shooter but a very smart one.
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No it's just that you see violence and suddenly assume that the game is all about that. It's genuinely cringe worthy because by your logic games that have violence can then be considered based around that violence when they're not.
 
CT Phipps said:
My love of Fallout can be summarized as such.

Pew-Pew-Kitty-clean_large.jpg
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It is for this exact reason I find there to be no value in your opinion whatsoever, and why you anger me so. You see fallout as nothing more than a cookie cutter shooting gallery. Your love of this not Fallout kills me inside, because you're supporting the death of a franchise. You are supporting the death of true art.

I'm OK with you liking bland, boring, repetitive, mindless shooters. I'm not OK with you supporting turning my Fallout into that. You are the reason why Metal Gear Solid is now a zombie game. You are the reason Fallout is now a shell of it's former self. I know you yourself didn't do that, but you represent the entire audience of people who caused this to happen. You are a conglomeration of everything I find wrong in video games today. I award you absolutely zero points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
 
DR_LaZer said:
It is for this exact reason I find there to be no value in your opinion whatsoever, and why you anger me so. You see fallout as nothing more than a cookie cutter shooting gallery. Your love of this not Fallout kills me inside, because you're supporting the death of a franchise. You are supporting the death of true art.
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The unchallenged opinion is fine until it tries to present itself to someone else I can and do respect Fallout's storytelling, world-building, humor, and occasional serious points about nuclear war as well as the tragedies of conflict. However, those who are unable to appreciate the purposes of a game being fun.

Who look down on causal gamers. Who generally disdain the act of playing for some sort of Platonic ideal of a "serious" video game remind me far too much of the people I deal with in academia who think the Lord of the Rings is trash because it doesn't deal with "real" issues.

I'm OK with you liking bland, boring, repetitive, mindless shooters. I'm not OK with you supporting turning my Fallout into that. You are the reason why Metal Gear Solid is now a zombie game. You are the reason Fallout is now a shell of it's former self. I know you yourself didn't do that, but you represent the entire audience of people who caused this to happen. You are a conglomeration of everything I find wrong in video games today. I award you absolutely zero points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
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I feel comfortable saying those who cannot appreciate other Fallout fans liking different things because they don't fit what they like about the games isn't everything wrong with video game fandom.

But it's pretty awful.

Edit:

Actually, I feel the need to say more. Mothership Zeta is a shooting gallery. It is a great shooting gallery with atmosphere, a simple but coherent plot, fun side characters, and beautiful graphics. It is, however, hated for the fact it isn't what certain fans want. They don't want a shooting gallery, they want it is to be an RPG so they project their hatred onto the game.

One of the games I'm currently looking forward to is Mafia III which is going to be a game that tackles race relations, the Civil Rights Era, and the glorification of the mob. Indeed, Mafia II is a game which is a serious retelling of the "romanticization" of the mob and how it's a stupid idea since they're a bunch of psychopathic parasites.

Both are GTA clones.

Indeed, one of the smartest games I've ever played is Spec Ops: the Line which challenges all of the assumptions of the Shooter and addresses things like American foreign policy, player agency, and heavily works in symbolism from Dante's Inferno. It's also a cover-based shooter like Gears of War.

Intelligent game writing is not limited to the RPG nor is it impossible to combine the RPG and shooting elements. The Witcher 3 is an epic fantasy storyline which, with its DLC, is probably better than anything in the past ten years but Game of Thrones. It is also a game which involves a lot of button mashing sword combat and spells.
 
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CT Phipps said:
The unchallenged opinion is fine until it tries to present itself to someone else I can and do respect Fallout's storytelling, world-building, humor, and occasional serious points about nuclear war as well as the tragedies of conflict. However, those who are unable to appreciate the purposes of a game being fun.

Who look down on causal gamers. Who generally disdain the act of playing for some sort of Platonic ideal of a "serious" video game remind me far too much of the people I deal with in academia who think the Lord of the Rings is trash because it doesn't deal with "real" issues.



I feel comfortable saying those who cannot appreciate other Fallout fans liking different things because they don't fit what they like about the games isn't everything wrong with video game fandom.

But it's pretty awful.
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I'm OK with casual gamers. I'm OK with mindless fun games. One of my favorite games ever is Saints Row 4, and that game gives no fucks. And even IT went from a semi serious world into one of insanity and rule of cool. But the difference between Saints Row and Fallout was that before 3, the game was just some average GTA clone. It wasn't bad, just not special. Nothing of value was truly lost with it. It got better because the devs just let go and had fun with it.

And we still have serious gang violence stuff with GTA, but now we have this fun, silly, and hilarious series along with it. And better yet, to my knowledge, Saints Row wasn't stolen from the original devs thanks to the publishers idiocy and taken by completely incompetent devs who completely warped the entire idea behind it.

And you seem to've missed my point a little bit. I'm OK with other fans liking different things. The problem I have with it, is it supports this terrible monster that Fallout's become and taken away a beloved franchise of mine. If Fallout 3 was actually like Fallout Eastern times or something, I'd be OK with that. And if people loved that and it continued to be made, I'd be OK with that. Because it's just a branch of Fallout. It's not rotting out the trunk of the tree by taking on the MAIN GAME LINE of the Fallout franchise.

The liking and support of Fallout 3 and 4 continues the creation of these terrible excuses of Fallout games. Like whatever you like, I don't care, I just care about my favorite franchises becoming shells of their former selves. Your personal opinions are cool with me. You can love Fallout 2 for its turnbased combat. That's neat! But if that love leads to Fallout becoming nothing but turn based combat, and a poorly crafted one at that, then I gotta step in and hope to stop this horrible twisting of a once great franchise.

God I did a bit of venting there! Like I said, it's honestly not you I'm angry at, but what you represent. You represent the casualization of every single game in the industry. Of making Dark Souls have an easy mode. Of turning Metal Gear Solid into a storyless zombie shooter.
 
DR_LaZer said:
I'm OK with casual gamers. I'm OK with mindless fun games. One of my favorite games ever is Saints Row 4, and that game gives no fucks. And even IT went from a semi serious world into one of insanity and rule of cool. But the difference between Saints Row and Fallout was that before 3, the game was just some average GTA clone. It wasn't bad, just not special. Nothing of value was truly lost with it. It got better because the devs just let go and had fun with it.
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Amusingly, I have serious issues with Saints Row 3 and Saints Row 4 because I was genuinely moved by the bait and switch depiction of gang violence. Saints Row 2 showed all the "perks" of it with the Cribs and the wealth, the power, and the respect in a somewhat cartoonish environment but also showed the horrific cost to your loved ones (Aiysha, Carlos) with the Boss showed to be nothing more than an unrepentant psychopath. I felt the games were changed and changed for the worse, ripping out something powerful and meaningful in order to promote pure silliness.

And you know what, it made me sad. However, I would never put down those who love Saints Row 3 and Saints Row 4 because of my dislike for the series direction.

And you seem to've missed my point a little bit. I'm OK with other fans liking different things. The problem I have with it, is it supports this terrible monster that Fallout's become and taken away a beloved franchise of mine. If Fallout 3 was actually like Fallout Eastern times or something, I'd be OK with that. And if people loved that and it continued to be made, I'd be OK with that. Because it's just a branch of Fallout. It's not rotting out the trunk of the tree by taking on the MAIN GAME LINE of the Fallout franchise.
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I've mentioned this distinction amounts to whether or not it's a number or a name. Deus Ex: Human Revolution dramatically changes the nature of Deus Ex and is not part of the numbered sequels, even though it could have easily been Deus Ex 3. Prequel "sequels" have existed as we see with Metal Gear Solid III and the adventures of Big Boss in Russia. I think Deus Ex 2 is shit and should be non-canon versus Human Revolution but that's my fan opinion. I don't quibble over the distinction save in my head.

Fallout 3 and New Vegas are a reboot of the franchise even if they take the canon of the original games. It's a new developer, new system of play, and brand. This doesn't remotely effect Fallout 1 or 2 but just does its own thing with the world.

The liking and support of Fallout 3 and 4 continues the creation of these terrible excuses of Fallout games. Like whatever you like, I don't care, I just care about my favorite franchises becoming shells of their former selves. Your personal opinions are cool with me. You can love Fallout 2 for its turnbased combat. That's neat! But if that love leads to Fallout becoming nothing but turn based combat, and a poorly crafted one at that, then I gotta step in and hope to stop this horrible twisting of a once great franchise.
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You hate the games, I got it. I like them a lot.

God I did a bit of venting there! Like I said, it's honestly not you I'm angry at, but what you represent. You represent the casualization of every single game in the industry. Of making Dark Souls have an easy mode. Of turning Metal Gear Solid into a storyless zombie shooter.
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I've been a fan of the Metal Gear Solid franchise for years and am deeply upset about the fact Metal Gear Solid V was essentially chopped to pieces, so much so I didn't bother to play it but just watched it. I also am furious that we'll never get a sequel to Metal Gear Solid: Revengeance which preserves the themes of the game. I also am saddened Silent Hill has been effectively "killed" by this act.

I haven't played Dark Souls but the idea of you complaining about something which will make it more enjoyable for other gamers is why I'm glad you're not anywhere near game design. Some of us are causal gamers who love story primarily and gameplay which is fun over some kind of weird idea it needs to be THIS hard.

I don't represent anyone other than myself.

It's weird because I don't actually like the whole underhanded dirty tactics of Bethesda regarding Fallout. There's a lot of nastiness in the purchase of the IP (equivalent to Vince McMahon buying WCW), the handling of mods, and the very fact Fallout 4 clearly was incomplete at release but copypasted to the point it looks like they barely worked on it at all. That the storytelling was shit, shooter or not. Because the problem for you is it's a shooter. Not that it's a badly made one.
 
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Chromevod said:
"My idea is to explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun."
-Tim Cain.

That's all.
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Tim Cain also mentions in his interview how much violence is an important part of Fallout and how they sold it as the most violent video game ever.

:)
 
Chromevod said:
Of course violence is important to the series. The issue is that a lot of the fighting is just for the sake of it in the recent games. Lore justifications are flimsy at best. The focus shifting to what you're fighting instead of why you're fighting.
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The thing I'm getting at is the problem isn't the game style, it's the fact the writing is often subpar and half-finished.
 
I'm not a gameplay purist, one of those types who insist that Fallout should keep to it's roots and be a PnP game using a computer. While I greatly prefer that style, it's not the most important factor for me. New Vegas proved that you could still do Fallout using the new style. Fallout 3 had shoddy writing all around, and Mothership Zeta was one of the places that the game was at its lowest. Mothership adding in the aliens in such a prominent role is counter to the spirit of Fallout. I've seen someone make the argument on NMA on this very issue, that Fallout is a story about humanity and the ruin that we bring upon ourselves, and the human ways that we deal with that. Mothership Zeta takes that idea, grinds it into a fine powder, and lets it be blown away in the wind.

Were Mothership Zeta given confirmed non-canon status, much of this issue would go away. It would be boring, but you could ignore it as a bump along with so much else of Fallout 3. It would essentially be a mediocre attempt at what OWB did so well. As is, it affects the Fallout setting far too much to be ignored.
 
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