Can the NCR survive much longer?

TheAmericanHedgehog

TheAmericanHedgehog

First time out of the vault
It's quite obvious that the glory days of Tandi are over, is it possible that the NCR will collapse or be taken over in the near future?
 
TheAmericanHedgehog said:
It's quite obvious that the glory days of Tandi are over, is it possible that the NCR will collapse or be taken over in the near future?
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I think NCR will be fine if it annexes the Mojave as the territory there is fairly radiation free and could be settled to grow farms that would handle their overpopulation issue. If they don't expand, then I think they may be even better off because its over-expansion have stretched their resources to the breaking point. Having the Mojave as a border will allow them to focus less on military efforts and more on infrastructure.

Their biggest problem right now is their Manifest Destiny bullshit which they can't handle because they don't have the resources.

In the Mister House ending, they get the benefits of Hoover Dam and electricity so I think that may ironically be the best ending for them. If they annex the Mojave, they'll have to defend its borders.
 
Taken over? By whom? The NCR is already the apex of a post-war state as far as it can be seen. There's no one else but the Legion near them, not canonically, and if they have won the Hoover Dam war then Caesar's Legion is on the fast track to disintegration, and even if Caesar's Legion won, I honestly doubt the capability of the Legion to press into California - southern California yes, because that's on the 'route' out and to the Mojave, but central and northern California and southern Oregon not so much.

But the same things that prevent conquest prevent expansion. It seems to me that the post-war world is a collection of fertile valleys at best and then expanses of shrub land surrounding swathes of desert. NCR expansion is limited by the new climate - Northern Mexico and Baja California and South West America are barely habitable iotl.

I think the future of the NCR isn't across the Rockies. I think it's north, along the Pacific coast. And it's probable - I personally fancy this - that there's a Cascadia up there, in those valleys and mountain lakes, itself probably at its maximum carrying capacity. Even if it's democratic like the NCR, what happens when two states, at their limit, covet the other? It won't even be subjugation anymore, it'll probably be outright extermination. And unless someone makes a new Green Revolution or finds a warehouse of GECKs or a library about terraforming, the conflict - in any direction - will be bloody and desperate.
 
If my memory serve me correctly, the fallout bible mentioned that there is a seasonal radioactive dust storm in the great plain. California is spare from that because of the Rockies and Denver is the eastern edge of the safe zone. So I don't think NCR can go east too far.

However, with Vegas secured and Legion on the run, I won't be surprised if NCR turned their attentions to Shi or West coast Brotherhood in a decade later.

Probably by sheer luck, FO3 is prorating Washington DC as a place without the dust storm (protected by the Appalachian Mountains) while the Pitts is a radioactive hellhole. That fit the lore.
 
The Shi are probably living in a Space Station, Moon base or Mars by now :rofl:.
They do say in Fallout 2 that they plan on being able to space travel in the near future or something like that. :V
 
Risewild said:
The Shi are probably living in a Space Station, Moon base or Mars by now :rofl:.
They do say in Fallout 2 that they plan on being able to space travel in the near future or something like that. :V
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Well, the Hubologists probably stole their Space Shuttle (which probably belonged to the Enclave) but I'm hoping the ending where the Enclave nuked the Shi after the Oil Rig is canon. That would explain why they didn't build so much new technology for NCR.
 
Pretty sure the space shuttle is some relic the Hubologists found and patched up. (perhaps it was in the cargo hold of the tanker)
I doubt that the Enclave would build a space shuttle if their first goal is to retake the mainland and colonize that.
Perhaps once they would have reclaimed all the habitable parts of Earth would they turn their attention back at space.

As for the topic, well I do think the NCR would try to spread Eastwards but it also makes sense that they would expand into the northern sections of the American continent, one of their priorities is finding new land that can be used for agriculture and stock farming, another one being finding resources and pre war technology such as power plants, probably manufacturing centers that can be restored, and other infrastructure that can be used such as railroads and rail yards.

I don't see the NCR collapse but it will probably stagnate, lacking the numbers and rebuild infrastructure to expand very far for the foreseeable future.
Oh they have the ambition of course but one of their failures as mentioned in FNV is that the NCR spread out to far to hold as much as possible but without being able to protect or fully develop it.
 
Make them outright disapear would be a very bad idea, but they will certainly change , and not for the best.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Pretty sure the space shuttle is some relic the Hubologists found and patched up. (perhaps it was in the cargo hold of the tanker)
I doubt that the Enclave would build a space shuttle if their first goal is to retake the mainland and colonize that.
Perhaps once they would have reclaimed all the habitable parts of Earth would they turn their attention back at space.

As for the topic, well I do think the NCR would try to spread Eastwards but it also makes sense that they would expand into the northern sections of the American continent, one of their priorities is finding new land that can be used for agriculture and stock farming, another one being finding resources and pre war technology such as power plants, probably manufacturing centers that can be restored, and other infrastructure that can be used such as railroads and rail yards.

I don't see the NCR collapse but it will probably stagnate, lacking the numbers and rebuild infrastructure to expand very far for the foreseeable future.
Oh they have the ambition of course but one of their failures as mentioned in FNV is that the NCR spread out to far to hold as much as possible but without being able to protect or fully develop it.
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The Enclave would have a space shuttle because they never intended to colonize Earth. They were just forced to after their Plan A:] Colonize Space failed.
 
The Enclave would not hold on to a space shuttle that is two hundred years old, they would build a new one (they would have the schematics for one in their database)
And if they build one they would not let some scientology rip offs get into their hangar or assembly yard and run off with it.

I am still convinced that the space shuttle the Hubologist found was some old pre war spacecraft they managed to patch up.

The Enclave only intended to colonize space once they had reclaimed Earth. Even if they build a shuttle and then decided to give up on their space colonization project for now they would have dismantled the shuttle again for parts and materials, not leave it somewhere were some crazy wastelanders could find it.

As for the rockets/rocket planes in Van Buren, it would have been pure luck that those would still work after two hundred years being exposed to the weather. Even if their structural integrity was still sound they would have to undergo various repairs and refits in order to make them properly operational again.

You just can not expose machines for great passages of time to the environment and then still expect them to work again once you press the power-on or start button. They would probably have to be put in some vacuum sealed space and I am not sure if that would not affect on their parts.
 
CT Phipps said:
Yea, I think that's still canonical. Also Nuka World canonizes Vault Tech having space colony plans.
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It's not. Elements of Van Buren were used in Fallout New Vegas but as far as I know Van Buren itself isn't canon.

EDIT: Nuka World also says Enclave power armour is Pre-War. That's all I'm going to say on that.
 
I believe the original plan is "The Enclave nukes Earth but don't have to worry about it because they're escaping to another planet like Mars."

In the Bethesda-verse and to a lesser extent in Fallout 1 and 2, the Pre-War government used their super technology to create machines which were designed to last centuries so they could survive the Great War recovery period.
 
CT Phipps said:
I believe the original plan is "The Enclave nukes Earth but don't have to worry about it because they're escaping to another planet like Mars."

In the Bethesda-verse and to a lesser extent in Fallout 1 and 2, the Pre-War government used their super technology to create machines which were designed to last centuries so they could survive the Great War recovery period.
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When I am playing mothership Zeta, I always thought may be that's why (the aliens) Enclave failed to escape to the moon or other planet(s).........
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
You just can not expose machines for great passages of time to the environment and then still expect them to work again once you press the power-on or start button. They would probably have to be put in some vacuum sealed space and I am not sure if that would not affect on their parts.
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If you want to go real scientific, even a car sitting at a garage for 20 years, the engine oil, hydraulics, lubricants...etc all completely dried up, the suspension is stiff, the tires all flat and all rubber tires, seals O rings.....etc all loss their elasticity and need replacement. AKA, it needs a complete rebuild project before it can hit the road. Vacuum sealed space may help stop rusting, but that's all.

So, when I am playing Fallout, I always switch-off my reality check and treat all pre-war stuff as "relics from ancient advance civilizations" in those fantasy RPG................
 
rockitten said:
If you want to go real scientific, even a car sitting at a garage for 20 years, the engine oil, hydraulics, lubricants...etc all completely dried up, the suspension is stiff, the tires all flat and all rubber tires, seals O rings.....etc all loss their elasticity and need replacement. AKA, it needs a complete rebuild project before it can hit the road. Vacuum sealed space may help stop rusting, but that's all.

So, when I am playing Fallout, I always switch-off my reality check and treat all pre-war stuff as "relics from ancient advance civilizations" in those fantasy RPG................
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One of my "not serious" theories is that the nuclear war blew up reality and the Fallout universe in Bethesda is the Purgatory created for the souls lost in the war. Condemned to live forever in-between reality until they make peace.
 
Wasn't one of the goal of the vault social experiments to see if societies could sustain itself in harsh condition, in case they would be sent to space ? (or post-war earth)
 
naossano said:
Wasn't one of the goal of the vault social experiments to see if societies could sustain itself in harsh condition, in case they would be sent to space ? (or post-war earth)
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I believe that was the original intention. It may well be the Enclave's space plan is canon, but citing Van Buren as a canonical source is incorrect.

CT Phipps said:
One of my "not serious" theories is that the nuclear war blew up reality and the Fallout universe in Bethesda is the Purgatory created for the souls lost in the war. Condemned to live forever in-between reality until they make peace.
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Pass the joint would ya?
 
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