I Know How You Feel

[Man]

I'm new to this forum and wanted to say that I understand why you guys hate Bethesda and their Fallouts. I was introduced to Fallout by FO3, I then played New Vegas, then FO4. I loved all three. I will say I have never played the originals but I do plan to eventually.

The reason I say I understand is because I am a huge fan of the Dead Space games. I love those games as much as the Bethesda Fallouts. I especially love DS2. Dead Space was an amazing action horror game. I have to agree with an article I saw that claimed "Dead Space is to games what Alien was to movies". But back to the point. The first two DS games were perfect action horror games, but the third was absolute garbage when it came to what DS meant.

Dead Space wasn't supposed to be an action only third-person shooter. It was a game about Isaac, necromorphs and EarthGov. Isaac was just an engineer, not a soldier, not a cop. In DS1 Isaac is trying to escape the USG Ishimura, in DS2 Isaac escapes Titan Station. In none of those games does Isaac fight other humans in combat, only necromorphs and his inner demons. In DS3 though, Isaac is Rambo, fighting human enemies and bland Lost Planet style necromorphs.

Dead Space 3 was planned to be much more ambitious and was going to expand Dead Space lore. Until EA put they're hands to Visceral's neck and demanded that the game appeal to COD fans or some garbage. Now the game is permanently dead though, because DS3 didn't do as well as the first two.

I do have to say though, that you guys are lucky. I would do anything to get another Dead Space game, even if it was only a battle royale game or online only (FO76). At least you guys keep getting new Fallout games.

TLDR: I understand because EA killed my beloved Dead Space. But at least you guys get new games in the franchise. But I will never blame you guys for hating Bethesda or new Fallouts.

 

[Pwener]

See? SEE?! I knew this guy would do this. Well, welcome to the forums, but people around here aren't that big on Dead Space from what I've seen. I have played and at one point owned all three but gave up on them. The series ended abruptly and no more will be made. Also, DS3 is garbage.

As for getting new Fallout games... no. Fallout 3 is at least enjoyable to a certain level. You haven't played the originals so you have no leg to stand on when saying that to be brutally honest. I used to regard F3 as a hell of a game but after playing through F1 and F2 I see it for the downgrade it really is. Fallout 4 on the other hand is hot garbage that has no reason to exist. New Vegas is the exception. But I'd rather have had the franchise be over after NV. Now we're getting "Fallout 76: The Next Dumpster Fire" and it's going the way of Fallout 4 but now with 10% more downgrade! Woohoo!

Tell me; would you rather give your grandfather a proper burial or have their corpse be taken to a taxidermist so they can have "grandpa" tag along to family gatherings? Because that's what happened to Fallout and every year "grandpa" needs a new fresh coat of paint to hide the fact that he's a stinking corpse.

 

[tgawt]

felt the same way about la cucaracha that album fucking sucked

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

I do have to say though, that you guys are lucky. I would do anything to get another Dead Space game, even if it was only a battle royale game or online only (FO76). At least you guys keep getting new Fallout games.

If someone assfucked my favorite IP over and over again I would not consider myself "lucky just to get more". I actually would have been alright with the series staying dead and never being bought up by Bethesda to add to their collection of IPs to ruin.

 

[FDO]

I actually would have been alright with the series staying dead and never being bought up by Bethesda to add to their collection of IPs to ruin.

It sum it up I guess. The fact is that most sites/reviewers/designers or whatever don't seem to even bother to remind that bethesda didn't create Fallout, and in truth you could even say they stole it during a lawsuit excuse for a legal and despicable theft.
You just have to look at how the question, 'what is Fallout'? get answered by many nowadays, rewiewers first, now that bethesda did their job.

Seriously, they wanted the 'brand' Fallout, but without true Fallout since past the game name it's not the market of bethesda to make quality in general. Not enough sells anymore, compared to what the crowds of suckers now want and are willing to pay top price for it. And on fucking steam, like if the rest wasn't enough. I had to wait a decade to play New Vegas, but who cares since I am not interesting market to shareholders legal thieves.

It's not limited to Fallout but to almost all the video games market, some would even say the entertainment sector entirely. Even those that start well and small like before, they end up selling out eventually, retconning original stories, characters, making bad gameplay that just don't fit with the rest of what they are doing is supposed to be about. All that to fit and please the sucking needs of what they call the largest possible audience. Look at what CDPR did to the witcher for example. And yet I like most of they did, but they are also those other dubious things they did, and I understand why Sapkowski, the creator and books writers, barely aknowledged CDPR fan fiction games and don't see them 'real'/canon at all.

But I promised myself I woudn't even try to go in this kind of debate anymore, man I hesitate to post, hell I wrote it so too bad. Just ignore it if you disagree with me.

 

[Man]

You haven't played the originals so you have no leg to stand on when saying that to be brutally honest.

You're right when you say that, can't argue with that. But I just wanted to tell you guys that although I've only played the Bethesda Fallouts, I can almost see what you see. Obviously EA isn't making a bunch of trash new DS games so I really can't argue with the grandpa analogy. Anyway your opinions are solid imo.

 

[Man]

If someone assfucked my favorite IP over and over again I would not consider myself "lucky just to get more". I actually would have been alright with the series staying dead and never being bought up by Bethesda to add to their collection of IPs to ruin.

I can see why you say that. I honestly wish some other company would buy DS, hell I'd be fine with Dead Space having yearly releases a la COD. You're entitled to how you feel. To you I'm wrong, I won't argue that.

 

[Man]

But I promised myself I woudn't even try to go in this kind of debate anymore, man I hesitate to post, hell I wrote it so too bad. Just ignore it if you disagree with me.

I don't really disagree. Your arguments were not bad either. I think Zenimax, who owns Bethesda Softworks, who owns Bethesda Game Studios, is privately held so this isn't some shareholder ordeal like EA. I'm not sure, correct me if I'm wrong but I do feel Bethesda cares, but they just don't know how to show it, or how to fix it. For example Fallout 4 was an attempt at a New Vegas style BGS Fallout. Yes I know you guys think it's shit, and I won't disagree that it wasn't very good (Still enjoyed it though).

This just my opinion (shit on me if you want), but I think Everyone Else>Bethesda when it comes to RPGs, but Bethesda>Everyone Else when it comes to world building and storytelling through physical ways, notes, and other worldly items, as opposed to storytelling through dialogue.

To reiterate my last point, take a look at this link. Sure there aren't many, also ignore the ones from New Vegas.
https://old.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/8uhckx/a_list_of_previous_fallout_quests_locations_with/

 

[Ayelander]

Bethesda>Everyone Else when it comes to world building and storytelling through physical ways, notes, and other worldly items, as opposed to storytelling through dialogue.

Every time.

 

[Man]

Every time.

Is that a common argument? Probably is seeing as how you responded lol. Fuck me

 

[Norzan]

but Bethesda>Everyone Else when it comes to world building and storytelling through physical ways, notes, and other worldly items, as opposed to storytelling through dialogue.

Bethesda's world building is garbage just for the nonsensical location placement and a lot of locations lacking any context or narrative. A lot of locations just exist for the sake of being explored, they are not an unique location in the world. Just there so you can enter, shoot the place up and have a convenient chest or something at the end that you can loot.

Obsidian did far much better world building in New Vegas compared to Fallout 3 and 4. The Glow in Fallout 1 alone has much better world building compared to anything Bethesda has ever done. The people who claim Bethesda is great at world building have barely played any rpg.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

but Bethesda>Everyone Else when it comes to world building and storytelling through physical ways, notes, and other worldly items, as opposed to storytelling through dialogue.

Structurally speaking, one could disagree with world building but story telling through critter, model, notes, item placement is their greatest strength. I would imagine a Bethesda-made horror/adventure/Amnesia-like game would be good. Have them create a game built around a world that does not conform to the laws of physics so people can easily suspend disbelief and not be complaining about "da game breakin muhh murrshun". Take it a step further and have those notes be read to you by some bald translucent guy with the voice of Dodd Howard - God of Voice acting.

 

[FDO]

This just my opinion (shit on me if you want), but I think Everyone Else>Bethesda when it comes to RPGs, but Bethesda>Everyone Else when it comes to world building and storytelling through physical ways, notes, and other worldly items, as opposed to storytelling through dialogue.

To reiterate my last point, take a look at this link. Sure there aren't many, also ignore the ones from New Vegas.
https://old.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/8uhckx/a_list_of_previous_fallout_quests_locations_with/

Not too fond of attacking people personally when they don't either, I just resent, in a general way, the gaming people on internet for having lead the publishers to basically disregard people like me, but it doesn't apply individually to someone like you. I don't agree with your tastes and preferences for what a game should prioritize but you seem otherwise reasonable, unlike many others that I have to assume are quite young and feel free to speak to grown up people on internet like if they were between themself at school.

I looked at your link and I see what you mean, however if we take some of these examples I ran to in New Vegas, like vault 11, 22 and 34, the backround stories are the only redeemable quality of these places to me. The rest is at best boring, frustrating at worst. Levels designs of this kind of abandoned places are much better in Fallout 1 and 2, if only because the gameplay don't give you the feeling that a FPS game suddently launched itself and replaced the interesting game you were just playing.

And there is the fact that most of your link examples seem to be all about past events irrelevant to the present stories. It can be interesting if it doesn't imply to run for hours in a giant complex (or a gigantic open world map for that matter) and shooting stuffs just because a fps level need stuffs to shoot, but it doesn't make the substance of a good game to me.

I would advice to try Fallout 1 to start with, it is quite short compared to Fallout 2, and though many here would disagree I think, it is overall better. Not sure what kind of other games you play/like, but I could always give you a list of games that are shining in term of stories and characters, if you want to try and see from where my obsession for these things partly came from.
Most aren't young at all from the short sight perspective of video games, and few are actually rpg, I started my playing habit with adventures games and it remain my favorite genre. I even have one gem from 2012 in my list, which is pretty recent from my perspective.

 

[Ayelander]

Is that a common argument? Probably is seeing as how you responded lol. Fuck me

Bethesda's sworn sentinels will never let you go without telling you about Bethesda's art of enviormental storytelling and atmospheric narrative. It is THE argument they use as a foundation of their defence.

 

[Pwener]

Bethesda's world building is garbage just for the nonsensical location placement and a lot of locations lacking any context or narrative. A lot of locations just exist for the sake of being explored, they are not an unique location in the world. Just there so you can enter, shoot the place up and have a convenient chest or something at the end that you can loot.

Obsidian did far much better world building in New Vegas compared to Fallout 3 and 4. The Glow in Fallout 1 alone has much better world building compared to anything Bethesda has ever done. The people who claim Bethesda is great at world building have barely played any rpg.

Well, Fallout 3 does have some neat places with lore in them. I did enjoy visiting the DC newspaper building and reading old pre-war articles. There's also Hubris Comics and Mama Dolce's. Yeah, lots of places are just empty shoot corridors but F3 does have some genuinely brilliant locations spread thinly throught the game.

You also can't really compare F1's world which only has a handful of locations to F3's which is actually pretty massive. I do get where you're coming from but I don't need every location to be a worldbuilding lore treasure trove. Sometimes an old building is just that; an old building.

And I don't remember ever finding any holotapes in The Glow. The only information to be had comes from ZAX and that's it. I would hardly call an info dump NPC great worldbuilding.

Man, I am gonna get roasted for criticizing Fallout 1 (which I love to death! I swear!).

 

[NovaRain]

And I don't remember ever finding any holotapes in The Glow. The only information to be had comes from ZAX and that's it. I would hardly call an info dump NPC great worldbuilding.

There are ancient Brotherhood disk and FEV/alpha/delta experiment disks in the Glow.

 

[V.D.D.Williams]

@G-Hombre As a fan of Command and Conquer (another casualty under EA), I have the opposite view. I would rather the series have a good death than to see a bunch of crappy games wearing its skin. But hey, maybe you just have a bad case of the Old World Blues and you'd be fine with the Dead Space equivalent of C&C Rivals, and if thats the case, more power to you. I already got used to publishers attempts to manipulate me into buying games with IPs that I love or loved, and they arent going to stop. Best I can do is to deny them my money when I dont trust them and spend it on other games I might actually like, and some small enjoyment when they fuck up and something blows up in their faces (which they inevitably do).

"Bethesda>Everyone Else when it comes to world building and storytelling through physical ways, notes, and other worldly items, as opposed to storytelling through dialogue."

Thats a tall claim, sir, and I think you might need more than that link to a reddit thread to back it up. I wouldnt be too quick to give Bethesda credit for Brain Dead, and as Norzan pointed out, Obsidian were no slouches in that department with New Vegas. Besides, are we only talking quantity, quality or both here? Off the top of my head, I can raise you Grim Dawn, the original Bioshock or Darkest Dungeon as contenders. And thats just stuff Ive personally played. Bethesda may invest a lot of effort on enviromental storytelling, Ill grant you that much, but thats a far cry from them being actually good at it, let alone the best.

 

[Norzan]

spread thinly throught the game.

This is a big problem in an open world game.

You also can't really compare F1's world which only has a handful of locations to F3's which is actually pretty massive. I do get where you're coming from but I don't need every location to be a worldbuilding lore treasure trove. Sometimes an old building is just that; an old building.

Yes, i can compare both. We are not talking about how big their maps, we are talking about how they tell the story through enviroment. And even the locations that have holotapes, some of them don't even SHOW any trace of what happened there. They just lazily scattered holotapes through the area. Not every location is supposed to have world building, but the majority of Fallout 3's locations don't have any world building. That's a big problem because it makes the world feel empty.

 

[Pwener]

This is a big problem in an open world game.


Yes, i can compare both. We are not talking about how big their maps, we are talking about how they tell the story through enviroment. And even the locations that have holotapes, some of them don't even SHOW any trace of what happened there. They just lazily scattered holotapes through the area. Not every location is supposed to have world building, but the majority of Fallout 3's locations don't have any world building. That's a big problem because it makes the world feel empty.

I don't know man, I don't feel that way when I play it. I don't expect a 200 year old ruin to have visible evidence of what happened there two whole centuries prior. That stuff flew in Fallout 1 with The Glow (and ONLY The Glow) where nobody had entered since the bombs fell but pretty much every place in DC has been touched and combed over. I like exploring and finding stuff, but I don't need a mini-story attached to every place I go to.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I don't know man, I don't feel that way when I play it. I don't expect a 200 year old ruin to have visible evidence of what happened there two whole centuries prior.

The problem is that they don't have visible evidence that anything happened during the two whole centuries prior. Bethesda makes stylized theme experiences... and the player is given a 'ride'.