Exploration Feels Like A Waste Of Time

[Charwo]

I've defended Fallout 3 before, saying the side quests are actually pretty good. But I've been playing Fallout 3 through tale of two wastelands and I'm reminded of how much this game SUCKS. Don't get me wrong, with New Vegas mods it's a million times better. Using a PipPhone to talk to grouse every time a slave gets off map (and they added a repeatable challenge for this called Human Resources which tells you the nanosecond the slave it off map and processed, and that's AMAZING) makes slaving far less of a chore.

But I'm playing with dozens of little mods that correct the problems of it's storytelling.
I got Quo Vagis so you can actually cure the Pitt
I have Tranquility Lane Expanded so I can ACTUALLY KILL BRAUN and save the people inside
I need to get Tenpenny Alternate Endings so I can just kill Roy instead of killing his followers too
I need a mod to make sure the caravaners don't die.
I need a mod to recruit RL-3 even though I should be able to just reprogram him with the Robotics Expert Perk
There's no mod where you can save Dad.

So what does Fallout 3 have? With three green mods, it's pretty. And there's lots of exploring to do. The problem is I don't give a shit about exploring. In TTW the supermutants are a nightmare to fight so that makes the combat interesting, but even with Project Nevada, combat is lackluster.

I don't think roleplayers care about exploration that much. I think that's why we keep saying Bethesda games SUCK. Because narrative is important, the stories are important and you have no agency other than to be a murderhobo. I'm trying to do a pacifist run for Fallout 3 and and not killing people right and left is a goddamned nightmare. And that's even if you don't count supermutants as people and kill them with abandon. I can go anywhere.....and see another goddamned ruin, another goddamned shack, another raider camp.

I don't know how vanilla Fallout New Vegas would compare at this point, but I'm not enjoying Fallout 3 vanilla. Only thing new in this playthrough is the pacifist run and Qou Vagis. But even Quo Vagis brings me out of it. In Vegas, people are going all up and down Clark County, so getting them to come to your studio for a porn shoot makes sense. In Fallout 3, I can't imagine anyone leaving their hidey holes to come to Canterbury Commons. Just walking outside is taking your life into your hands.

Epic Nerd was wrong and hbomberguy was right. Fallout 3 is goddamned awful, and it's a waste of time to replay. I retract ever defending it.

 

[Norzan]

Fallout New Vegas definitely has a lesser focus on exploration than Fallout 3 and more on quests and narrative. Maybe you'll enjoy it more if you haven't played it yet.


And yeah, Fallout 3 focuses way too much on exploration at the expense of literally everything else. Bethesda just wants you to roam around with hardly any context or narrative to why you are even doing it. I can see the appeal of roaming around and finding new things, but i like it in smaller quantities and not be the actual main focus of the game. Fallout 3 over does it to an insane degree.

 

[Atomkilla]

To be fair, there are some good places to explore in FO3. The thing with them is that they aren't connected to the plot in any way, and are completely self-contained. Like Dunwich building, for instance (pre-Point Lookout).
I liked places like that.

FNV has those, mainly fantastic Vaults (like V11), but I wish it had more. One of the things I missed from FO3.

Or maybe stuff like that is rare in FO3 and the game is emtpy and my memory is just wrong. Haven't played it in 7 years I think. Oh well.

 

[Charwo]

Fallout New Vegas definitely has a lesser focus on exploration than Fallout 3 and more on quests and narrative. Maybe you'll enjoy it more if you haven't played it yet.


And yeah, Fallout 3 focuses way too much on exploration at the expense of literally everything else. Bethesda just wants you to roam around with hardly any context or narrative to why you are even doing it. I can see the appeal of roaming around and finding new things, but i like it in smaller quantities and not be the actual main focus of the game. Fallout 3 over does it to an insane degree.

Oh, I've played a LOT of New Vegas. I'm just wondering if I'm liking it far more than 3 ATM because there are new and interesting quest mods to play for New Vegas I cannot be playing while playing TTW.

 

[tgawt]

one of NV's largest flaws is that the world fucking sucks and is boring and ugly. its all very barren and straight which makes it a repetitive chore to explore. bethesda has always been good at making maps seem bigger than they really are (see; morrowind). obsidian did the exact opposite thing and the world in new vegas seems a lot smaller than it is because all the good stuff is in pockets and the rest of the wasteland is filler

 

[Charwo]

one of NV's largest flaws is that the world fucking sucks and is boring and ugly. its all very barren and straight which makes it a repetitive chore to explore. bethesda has always been good at making maps seem bigger than they really are (see; morrowind). obsidian did the exact opposite thing and the world in new vegas seems a lot smaller than it is because all the good stuff is in pockets and the rest of the wasteland is filler

Capital Wasteland is boring and ugly too. I have to run THREE green mods to make the Capital Wasteland pretty. Besides you've missed my point. Exploration is a waste of time without a compelling world. There's nothing compelling about the Capital Wasteland, it's a fucking wasteland. New Vegas is very interesting, you have a thriving city, an airport, functional small towns that make sense, functioning railroads and convoy trucks (even if we never see them). The place is vibrant and alive and not completely an excuse to shoot at anything that moves.

 

[Pwener]

I have to run THREE green mods to make the Capital Wasteland pretty.

Reminds me of the mods that aim to make the Legion look like they're wearing real Roman armors.

This is just my opinion on how the world should be, don't you dare jump down my throat @Norzan telling me after 200 years it should all be broccoli green.

 

[Norzan]

While i don't fully agree that the Capital Wasteland should be in pristine condition, it's instead the other extreme: it looks like nothing happened in 200 years. A lot of the places and buildings are just empty and filled with rubble, making me wonder why no one tried to clean up the place.

Instead you have these pockets of civilitization sitting on their asses, doing absolutely nothing, like they are just waiting for death. It makes humanity look like a bunch of lazy pricks that don't care for their own survival.

 

[Pwener]

Okay, I do agree with you on that @Norzan... damn you.

 

[Atomkilla]

Now kiss.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Exploration is vastly overrated as a gameplay-enhancing mechanic a LOT of the time. Bethesda (in particular) prides themselves on something that is absolutely ancillary at best to a good game.

 

[Gizmojunk]

While i don't fully agree that the Capital Wasteland should be in pristine condition, it's instead the other extreme: it looks like nothing happened in 200 years. A lot of the places and buildings are just empty and filled with rubble, making me wonder why no one tried to clean up the place.

Also it looks wrong to begin with. FO3's towns and cities actually look like run down 50's architecture—which is absurd for 2077, let alone 2277.

The setting calls for a futuristic "World of Tomorrow" cityscape—blown all to hell; it's what they imagined would exist in the far future—not parody relics from their own past.

Look at Fallout:Tactics' depiction of 2077 era Chicago:

Does this look like Mayberry, or Petticoat Junction? Bethesda's concept of the setting is lunacy; practically criminal defacement of the IP—which they own, and can deface to their fart's content.

Spoiler: But their treatment of it will always be this... IMO

*(...and I don't mean a comedic genius.)

_____________

The above said... I will say that the only part of FO3 that I enjoyed—was the exploration; the rest was crap, and the NPCs ruined it every time they spoke any dialog. With obvious exceptions (like 50's architecture, Ghouls, Mr.Handy; Super-sledge, and other mistakes of appearance with pre-war artifacts), the landscape looked utterly spot on for 2078, and so it was very easy to imagine the game was some sort of Fallout derived hiking simulator, and that is the only aspect where it really shined.

 

[Pwener]

Also it looks wrong to begin with. FO3's towns and cities actually look like run down 50's architecture—which is absurd for 2077, let alone 2277.

The setting calls for a futuristic "World of Tomorrow" cityscape—blown all to hell; it's what they imagined would exist in the far future—not parody relics from their own past.

Look at Fallout:Tactics' depiction of 2077 era Chicago:

Does this look like Mayberry, or Petticoat Junction? Bethesda's concept of the setting is lunacy; practically criminal defacement of the IP—which they own, and can deface to their fart's content.

Spoiler: But their treatment of it will always be this... IMO

Oh? You mean... this architecture?

See those buildings back there? They look just like Fallout 3's. Architecture is one of the things Bethesda nailed in Fallout 3. Even @Hassknecht recognized it not too long ago in another thread.

Don't base your information, especially lore, on a game that says in its intro sequence that the BoS came from a "military vault." The game is full of inconsistencies.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Oh? You mean... this architecture?

Yes.

Look closely at it; and later realize that not everything in the world would have been brand new glittering high-rises. Fallout took place in the middle of a desert—not Washington DC.

**Also recall that though Micro Forté made FO:Tactics, they (for better or worse) did have a world setting liaison in Black Isle, assigned to look over their ideas, and answer questions.

Bethesda actually interprets the setting as locked in the 1950's. They have this nonsensical idea of technology and culture not existing after [1947?]—not existing at all; despite having plasma rifles, and nano-meds... and despite Fallout 1 & 2 presenting several new cultures emerging in the aftermath of the war.

Look really close, and you will see that almost everything in Fallout that looks 1950's is pre-war salvage.

 

[Pwener]

Yes.

Look closely at it; and later realize that not everything in the world would have been brand new glittering high-rises. Fallout took place in the middle of a desert—not Washington DC.

Middle of a desert? That city is either Bakersfield (Necropolis) or Los Angeles (The Boneyard). Get off it and admit you screwed up by using a non canon game as a frame of reference. And have you seen Washington DC? It's one of the oldest cities in the country with many buildings being over a century old. If anywhere in the nation should buildings be like that, it's there.

You said Bethesda's treatment of the setting was "lunacy" and a "defacement of the IP." Both are absurd.

People around here complain that the plot sucks along with the characters, but anything beyond that is debatable. The setting of Fallout is one of the things Bethesda nailed with Fallout 3. I get you wanna jump in the NMA 'let's hate F3 together' bandwagon but you're just being silly and stubborn.

 

[Gizmojunk]

...have you seen Washington DC? It's one of the oldest cities in the country with many buildings being over a century old. If anywhere in the nation should buildings be like that, it's there.

It is also the nation's capital.

*(Aside: Honestly I was expecting a Pentagon more like something out of Warhammer40k —not an old office building covered in trash.)

You said Bethesda's treatment of the setting was "lunacy" and a "defacement of the IP." Both are absurd.

I said all of that; including the bit about being Absurd.

The setting of Fallout is one of the things Bethesda nailed with Fallout 3.

The setting is now beyond fouled. The original setting had NPCs that were intimidating, and/or respectworthy (whether evil or good); the one's in FO3 live in trash, and act insane. Even the paramilitary BOS live in trash... when the first thing they would have done was have the recruits scrub the Citadel to a sterile polish.


No. Bethesda crapped on the setting for marketing reasons. It simplifies their elevator pitch, and gives the neophyte player a simple idea of the setting; rather than—the series setting. They see that the world is "like if the future was still in the 50's", and not the world OF the 50's idea of the future.

 

[Pwener]

It is also the nation's capital.

*(Aside: Honestly I was expecting a Pentagon more like something out of Warhammer40k —not an old office building covered in trash.)

I said all of that; including the bit about being Absurd.

The setting is now beyond fouled. The original setting had NPCs that were intimidating, and/or respectworthy (whether evil or good); the one's in FO3 live in trash, and act insane. Even the paramilitary BOS live in trash... when the first thing they would have done was have the recruits scrub the Citadel to a sterile polish.


No. Bethesda crapped on the setting for marketing reasons. It simplifies their elevator pitch, and gives the neophyte player a simple idea of the setting; rather than—the series setting. They see that the world is "like if the future was still in the 50's", and not the world OF the 50's idea of the future.

Eh, just another post full of concentrated hate towards Fallout 3. They all look the same anyway. I won the argument about the buildings and around here that's all that matters. Now give me my upvotes you swine!

 

[Gizmojunk]

I don’t disagree with crapping on the setting, but for marketing reasons? I’ll never understand that theorem. It was the way it was out of pre-production muckery and a deep ignorance. I thoroughly reject the notion Bethesda does everything out of some malice...

I cannot consider them ignorant; I can easily consider them calculated. I don't entertain the notion that it was malice, when it could so easily be pragmatic apathy. They knew their market, and they draped their TES game template with as many of the iconic Fallout assets as they could.

I don’t believe as a whole they are intelligent enough to be that ‘insidious’.

Somebody there is very intelligent; and probably a lot more than a few of them are very intelligent. They couldn't make FO3 if they weren't. As wretched as it was, it pushed the buttons to make hundreds of millions in sales—original premise be damned... and it was.

They wanted to make Fallout 3 on the west coast and just after the bombs but pulled out, but still had art and art assets, and production designs set on that sort of setting, as well as just thinking it would make sense anyways in a “wasteland”.

That is a neat bit that I had not read anywhere. Was it mentioned in an art book, or strategy guide?

At least now you could somewhat say though that there was some explanation for the Capital Wasteland being so bad, what with the V87 Mutants, Glowing Sea, etc. even though it doesn’t excuse it’s questionable writing quality

FEV wasn't supposed to exist (as a liquid goo) outside of Mariposa... and yet it too popped up on the other side of the country.

**I'd say that this is a nasty retcon/retro-fit too... because The Enclave in Fallout 2 would have known about it.

Eh, just another post full of concentrated hate towards Fallout 3. They all look the same anyway.

That's an common backpedaling out. Instead, prove that my assertions are false, and perceived hate unjustified.

I won the argument about the buildings and around here that's all that matters. Now give me my upvotes you swine!

You did not.

 

[Pwener]

FEV wasn't supposed to exist (as a liquid goo) outside of Mariposa... and yet it too popped up on the other side of the country.

**I'd say that this is a nasty retcon/retro-fit too... because The Enclave in Fallout 2 would have known about it.

I hate when this is brought up. It really goes to show the silly lengths people around here go to hate something 'en masse.' There is a holotape in Fallout 1 that says that the head general in charge of the FEV project ordered all FEV testing to be moved from The Glow to Mariposa. This, in a series that is known to have conflicting or outright incorrect information concerning the Pre-War world.

Also must be taken into account is Vault-Tec being in the Enclave's pocket and they in turn truly controlled the military. FEV being researched in a Vault by Vault-Tec is not a contradiction. But people that want to dislike Fallout 3 take that single bit from the first game and run with it with religious fervor.

That's an common backpedaling out. Instead, prove that my assertions are false, and perceived hate unjustified.

Backpedaling? You literally posted nothing to disprove MY point so what else was I supposed to say? You just ranted about Bethesda ruining Fallout.

The discussion was about the architecture in Fallout 3. You used Tactics' depiction of Pre-War Chicago as a frame of reference and I proved to you that buildings in Fallout's America had Fallout 3's architecture using the very first game as proof. Said architectural style you insulted because you thought it was something Bethesda came up with and when I pointed out your ignorance you tried to save face.

You did not.

I did.

 

[a721402]

Ah-Q mentality make you win every argument, anytime.