Fallout 4 goes Skyrim with infinite re-releases

Zentropy said:
Fallout 3/4/New Vegas are good games
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This is like saying a pipe wrench is a good tool —but the task is finish carpentry. It's a good tool, but not suitable for the intended job; at least not the job implied. You can't use tacks and a hammer for plumbing either.
 
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/-i-fallout-i-ip-sold-to-bethesda said:
In an interesting twist, as part of the agreement Interplay now acts as a licensee of the IP as it continues to ramp up production on its own Fallout-themed massively multiplayer game, first announced in 2004 alongside Bethesda's sequel
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Makes one wonder if Troika wouldn't have shutdown had they acquired the Fallout IP.
 
Gizmojunk said:
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Makes one wonder if Troika wouldn't have shutdown had they acquired the Fallout IP.
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That's not how economics work x)
Gizmojunk said:
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Makes one wonder if Troika wouldn't have shutdown had they acquired the Fallout IP.
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That's not how economics work; they shut down because they were financially insolvent, the fact that they were financially insolvent from making games that didn't offer a return meant that they couldn't get a loan or a publisher to acquire Fallout.
 
Gizmojunk said:
In this case you might be wrong... It would have been seen as a 'getting the band back together' situation; possibly with some uncharacteristic leeway given. Who knows.
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That's probably how they pitched it, and their loan/acquisition was obviously denied.
 
Few (if any) of us here know the backroom details of this. For all we know, such loans might have had unacceptable strings attached (Like dictating plot or gameplay specifics).
 
Zentropy said:
Norzan, in Fallout 3 there is good writing
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Good writing doesn't exist in Fallout 3, there's at best okay writing and that is the extreme minority. Everywhere else has some of the worst writing ever put in fiction like the entire main questline (middle-aged man, have you seen him?), crap like people making a town around a bomb, a town filled with nothing but children, people playing democracy right next to a den of deathclaws and the shit they did to Harold.
 
Norzan said:
Good writing doesn't exist in Fallout 3, there's at best okay writing and that is the extreme minority. Everywhere else has some of the worst writing ever put in fiction like the entire main questline (middle-aged man, have you seen him?), crap like people making a town around a bomb, a town filled with nothing but children, people playing democracy right next to a den of deathclaws and the shit they did to Harold.
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I mean if we were only comparing it to Fallout 1, and you were asking my subjective opinion, I would agree with you. However, Fallout 2 had equally absurd content and threw all seriousness out the window. The opening cutscene has a bong in it, there is a medicine man that speaks with you through visions, a city who's currency is narcotics, ghosts, and that's just scraping the surface.You live in a village started by the vault dweller 3 generations before that has somehow descended into tribalism with cliche caveman talk and tribal spirituality. Like what the F*ck. Fallout 2 is still a great game, but if we're talking believably and consistent, concise plot lines, Fallout 3 greatly outshines Fallout 2.

However, if we're taking my opinion out of the matter, Fallout 1 has a 91% on Metacritic and it's writing was considered superb by professional reviewers at the time of it's release.
 
So to be honest, in my subjective opinion, I dislike Fallout 3. Fallout New Vegas is great though, and while Fallout 4's dialogue took a step back, but it's amazing in every other way.

But anyways, it's okay to subjectively dislike something, but that doesn't make it objectively bad.

I can see why so many Fallout fan's were mad when Fallout 3 came out, I understand. I just want you guys to know that I do get it.
 
Zentropy said:
However, Fallout 2 had equally absurd content and threw all seriousness out the window. The opening cutscene has a bong in it, there is a medicine man that speaks with you through visions, a city who's currency is narcotics, ghosts, and that's just scraping the surface.You live in a village started by the vault dweller 3 generations before that has somehow descended into tribalism with cliche caveman talk and tribal spirituality.
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And all of this is still far less stupid than what is in Fallout 3. The problem is that most of Fallout 3 makes no sense from in-universe standpoint and it also completely clashes with the tone it's trying to set. The game makes the Capital Wasteland into this hellhole, but yet people have time to be playing superheroes and pretend democracy? It's just complete nonsense.

This has been brought up many times before but i'll bring it up again. Fallout 2 was rushed out the door by the publisher because the devs were told to make a game as big as Baldur's Gate, but they had no time. So they basically told each member of the dev team to come up with stuff to fill the overworld and that's how we got a scorpion playing chess and the impilcation that ghosts exist. Because coming up with actual refined content takes time and effort. And even with all of this, Fallout 2 still has plenty of good writing. It makes me roll my eyes everyime some dumbass (not saying you are, just some people outside of this forum) starts saying they can't take Fallout 2 seriously because there's some dumb shit, but forget all the good writing in the game.

Meanwhile Fallout 3 had plenty of development time and yet it's writing is abysmal in so many quests and areas. All the stuff i mentioned that are stupid are not such because they are outlandish, but because, again, they clash with the tone of the game. At least Fallout 2 sets itself up as a game that has no qualms being goofy while still maintaining a serious tone. Fallout 3 meanwhile tries way too hard be dark, painting the wasteland as this extremely hostile enviroment where clean water is scarce, but yet people apparently have time to be playing superheroes.

Zentropy said:
but if we're talking believably and consistent, concise plot lines, Fallout 3 greatly outshines Fallout 2.
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It sure as hell it doesn't since half of its plot it's just a worse version of Fallout 2's (the other half is Fallout 1's plot). There's nothing believable and concise about Fallout 3 plotlines, specially the main questline. Fallout 2's, as goofy it can get, it's still far better written. The Enclave was done dirty in Fallout 3 and it's arguably the most one-dimensional faction in the series.

Honestly, i'm kind of tired of people always bringing up Fallout 2 when they defend Fallout 3's writing since the first game exists. Sure, if Fallout 2 was the only other game in series at the time Fallout 3's release, then maybe that defence would be valid since there would be no precedent to pull from. But Fallout 1 exists and that game has a lot of great writing, proving that a Fallout game with good writing exists and thus Bethesda had something could have pulled stuff from.
 
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Zentropy said:
Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel was the defacement of the series, as was Black Isle's other poor financial decisions that made them literally SELL Fallout to Bethesda! Like god damn at least the series was sold so more games can be made, and thank god it was to Bethesda so we can at least get some quality, stylistically different games as a consolation.
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I would have prefered for troika to win the deal, they were the biggest competitir for the fallout IP behind bethesda, and they had a very advanced tech demo showcase for a possible 3D modern birds eye view style of fallout, which I think looked very good. I like fallout 3, but its a very forgetable exprience when it comes to story and roleplaying

 
Fuck the site lags in mobile and letters get cut off, pls ignore the writing errors
 
Norzan said:
Good writing doesn't exist in Fallout 3, there's at best okay writing and that is the extreme minority. Everywhere else has some of the worst writing ever put in fiction like the entire main questline (middle-aged man, have you seen him?), crap like people making a town around a bomb, a town filled with nothing but children, people playing democracy right next to a den of deathclaws and the shit they did to Harold.
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There's nothing wrong with the town around the bomb in and of itself, they should have just leaned more heavily into the Children of Atom stuff and had it be like a Mecca that people come to visit. Freaks worshipping an atomic bomb is obviously an idea that fits in to Fallout.
 
Hardboiled Android said:
There's nothing wrong with the town around the bomb in and of itself
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Nope, it's pretty stupid. Worshipping the thing that destroyed most of civilization is even more stupid no matter what. And Children of the Atom is one of the dumbest factions in the series, so it really shouldn't have been made in the first place.
 
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Norzan said:
Nope, it's pretty stupid. Workshipping the thing that destroyed most of civilization is even more stupid no matter what. And Children of the Atom is one of the dumbest factions in the series, so it really shouldn't have been made in the first place.
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The concept was literally taken from Wasteland 1.

You may find it stupid, but you probably feel similarly about most religions if I were to guess. Atomic bombs are a symbol of ultimate power, something vast and alien that in a very literal sense created the world as Wastelanders know it. The concept that someone would worship that makes sense.

Saying "It's dumb to worship the thing that destroyed civilization no matter what" is, IMO, a pretty dumb thing to say, and only makes sense for someone in the modern day, or alternatively someone who is obsessed with the past in the nonsensical way a lot of Bethesda NPCs are. Of course not a 100% of people are going to fall into that kind of religion, most people are going to be hostile to such a belief system, but it's not unbelievable that some proportion of people would fall into such a religion.

As presented, yeah obviously the Children of Atom are stupid. But conceptually, it's a fine idea.
 
Hardboiled Android said:
The concept was literally taken from Wasteland 1.
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Just because one game has the same dumb idea doesn't justify you using it as well.

Hardboiled Android said:
but you probably feel similarly about most religions if I were to guess.
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Hardboiled Android said:
Saying "It's dumb to worship the thing that destroyed civilization no matter what" is, IMO, a pretty dumb thing to say, and only makes sense for someone in the modern day
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Nope, worshipping something that can just wipe all of humanity is stupid no matter the setting, time period, whatever. This is not the same thing as the Legion trying to enforce their power by using methods used by an empire from ancient times because at least there's evidence of that working. Worshipping something that has shown to be nothing but pure destruction that led to nothing but misery is fucking stupid no matter what.

And your point is honestly even more ridiculous when you realize that i'm looking at it through the setting of Fallout and not OURS. Ours hasn't been obliterated by atomic bombs yet unlike in Fallout. Fallout should be the last setting to have a faction worshipping fucking atom bombs, even by a villainous faction.
 
Norzan said:
Just because one game has the same dumb idea doesn't justify you using it as well.
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Is it a trope that you disliked in Wasteland? Or Wasteland 2 or 3? Or Planet of the Apes 2?


Norzan said:
Nope, worshipping something that can just wipe all of humanity is stupid no matter the setting, time period, whatever. This is not the same thing as the Legion trying to enforce their power by using methods used by an empire from ancient times because at least there's evidence of that working. Worshipping something that has shown to be nothing but pure destruction that led to nothing but misery is fucking stupid no matter what.

And your point is honestly even more ridiculous when you realize that i'm looking at it through the setting of Fallout and not OURS. Ours hasn't been obliterated by atomic bombs yet unlike in Fallout. Fallout should be the last setting to have a faction worshipping fucking atom bombs.
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Ever heard the term "fear of God"? It's a pretty common trope throughout all of human history to be fucking terrified of the things you worship, because whatever you worship is more powerful than yourself. That can translate into terror, and into love and adoration. The God of the Israelites, and now the majority of humanity, literally killed everyone except like 8 people, constantly kills his own people, and promises the literal coming apocalypse.

Caesar's Legion is a rational ideological project organized by a single rational subject. That is not what a religion is, religion is arrived at irrationally, ecstatically, and by process of revelation. Cults are not rational. I would also note that, for 99% of it's members, there is no real rationality behind the Legion. Only Caesar really understands the full shape of things. Granted, though, there is more rational articulation by the average Legionary of the purpose of their project than there is by an Atomite or any other cultist.

You're looking at it from the point of view of someone today, who is afraid of their world being destroyed, and knows that worshipping the atom bomb is nonsensical. Or mabe you're looking at it from the point of view of someone after that, but one who is intimately aware of the details of the modern world, and supremely rational about it. I don't doubt that plenty of people would rather worship the golden age of man than the thing that destroyed it, but the alternative is not ridiculous when you consider that there is no other world.

To a lot of people in the Wasteland, all there is is the world as they know it, nothing else. Anything else is j ust a story. What does seem to be well agreed upon is that the world as they know it was created by the atom bomb, that the atom bomb is supremely powerful, and what's more that their is a singular, physical embodiment of it. It's just too powerful of a psychic symbol that somebody would not worship it. It's just another way of coping with the state of the world.
 
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