”Fallout fans”

[Crni Vuk]

I don't shit or hate on people for loving Fallout 4. I shit on people for telling me that I should love Fallout 4. Big difference in my book.

 

[TheHouseAlwaysWins]

I like Morrowind so I'm not dissing you I just see it as a bad direction in the potential of the series overall.

While true, some of the stuff can actually be debatable like the stamina, gold having weight (this honestly is dumb in any game unless it's in a survival mode) and spells being limited to a spell book.

I mentioned those things because they play into the simulation aspect of it.

Morrowind still had stats dictate several outcome like fights and lockpicking, faction reputation dictating how some npcs react to you, actual consequences like killing plot relevant characters means they stay dead and several other things that still make it a RPG.

The faction reputation in Morrowind affects the dispostion of how NPC's see you but as I said it's easy to bribe and cheese it. Daggerfall has tons of the world reaction where as Morrowind's is mostly either cosmetic or funnels into the disposition which is easy to break.

The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall in terms of the world reaction in it has:

-A complex faction reputation system which extends to guilds, individual territories and kingdoms, and important characters. You can raise reputation by doing quests for them or siding with them on any quests they play a role in it. Reputation affects how NPC's in a faction respond to your questions, guild benefits, and parts of sidequests change in it. If you get negative reputation, NPC's will be less responsive and insult your character or will sometimes not even talk to you, you can also get kicked out of guilds if you have negative reputation with it. The process of time also affects reputation setting it back to neutral if you offend them because they eventually forgive you or they forget any good deeds you done for them if you don't do quests for them after a while in it.

-a secondary reputation system that tracks anything bad you do to a kingdom like stealing, if this rep goes down guards will automatically spawn and try to chase you based on conspiracy and your faction reputation with the kingdom goes down too.

-towns including the main quest towns can ban you if you cause too much trouble in it.

-parts of the main quest will change based on your reputations.

-guilds require you to have relevant skills to join and advance (at least morrowind actually kept this feature in it)

-You can become a werebeast or a vampire but it's a lifestyle choice that has consequences for your character.

-You can join and advance in knight order but it makes the other major kingdoms hate you for it.

etc

you can join every faction.

I don't see how that's a bad thing actually. The whole great house feature in Morrowind only allowes you to join one great house per playthrough but the rest of the content in the game is the same and doable. I like world reaction over Mass Effect 2 styled content.

Stats no longer dictate the outcome of battles.

I do not know what you mean by this because in Fallout 3 which uses the Oblivion engine you have to be good at small guns in order to actually use them remotely effectively in it. (I haven't really played Oblivion honestly)

Enemies scale to your level, meaning no running into stronger enemies.

Daggerfall and Morrowind both have heavy level scaling.

Several spells were removed.

Ya and they added new physics ones as effects too.

So saying Morrowind is the start of the current state of Bethesda is just flat out false. It has way too many design choices that are no longer used since Oblivion.

The world is handcrafted and a lot less random than the virtual DM simulator that is Daggerfall. The main quest is railroaded to where you are always fighting for the sake of Azura and not for the Tribunal or the Imperials and you can't side with Dagoth Ur. A lot of the consequences that happen to my character feel insignificant when I realized I could just spam gold at other NPC's in it.



Go to 2 hours and 50 seconds into this video and stop it 2 hours 5 minutes and 30 seconds

 

[Crni Vuk]

What happend then?

Todd Howard. Todd Howard happend.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

What happend then?

Todd Howard. Todd Howard happend.

 

[Norzan]

The faction reputation in Morrowind affects the dispostion of how NPC's see you but as I said it's easy to bribe and cheese it. Daggerfall has tons of the world reaction where as Morrowind's is mostly either cosmetic or funnels into the disposition which is easy to break.

While maybe it's cheesing, not having the option would be weird. What if i'm a rich asshole who goes through life just bribing to get what i want? Maybe if it made you could no longer bribe if their disposition was too low? You still lose something to bribe people and if you offer too low they will be insulted.

I do not know what you mean by this because in Fallout 3 which uses the Oblivion engine you have to be good at small guns in order to actually use them remotely effectively in it. (I haven't really played Oblivion honestly)

I wasn't talking about Fallout 3, i was talking about Oblivion. None of the combat stats in Oblivion have dice rolls, they are all player skill based. Well, except Agility but this one is just flat out broken.

Even in Fallout 3, you can still hit enemies if you aim well enough. Meaning investing to Small Guns is not really required because player skill can circuvent this.

Daggerfall and Morrowind both have heavy level scaling.

For Morrowind at least, there are several areas where enemies have set levels, meaning tackle them early on can get you killed. All enemies in Oblivion with the exception of one (Umbra) scale to your level, meaning there's absolute no area in the game that will give you trouble at any level.

I don't see how that's a bad thing actually. The whole great house feature in Morrowind only allowes you to join one great house per playthrough but the rest of the content in the game is the same and doable. I like world reaction over Mass Effect 2 styled content.

It is when you can join Fighters Guild and the Thieves Guild, two guilds that have complete different morals except for the no killing of innocent. Not to mention to able to join all of them regardless of build. I can be a guy that has never cast a spell in his life and still join the Mages Guild and become the Archmage of all things.

World reaction also includes no longer joining faction if you join an enemy faction or a faction that does precisely the thing the other faction forbids. This is completely missing from Oblivion.

Morrowind is the last Bethesda game where content can be gated from the player based on choices. There's absolutely none of that in Oblivion because Bethesda no longer believes in choice and consequences. Morrowind still has them. While it might have less, it still has them.

My point is that it still feels like a RPG and plays like one, while Oblivion doesn't feel like one and doesn't play like one.

Also odd you are arguing about Morrowind's direction when you haven't even played Oblivion. While Morrowind lost the scope of Daggerfall and streamlined several things, Oblivion is the absolute extreme of this. The other end of the extreme.