1950s Europe?

[Tagaziel]

I've been wondering about how retrofuturistic Europe would look. Since America of the Fallout world was heavily inspired by 1950s pop culture and sci-fi, what factors would theoretically be taken as inspiration for such a title?

Obviously, a lot of stuff would come from the post-War rebuilding, since the Resource Wars ended up with the Commonwealth dissolving and total chaos erupting.

A lot could also come from, say, Nineteen Eighty four by Orwell and all the dramas of the time. And European sci-fi works of the 1950s/early 1960s.

Thoughts?

 

[Hausen]

Retrofuturistic Europe after the Great War, aye?

Well, we'd have to figure out who would survive and how. China and US splitted the oil supply, so I figure Europe was in a long stagnation, unable to fund vaults, and geographically speaking Europe is small and full of important targets, while the US has many targets too but is large enough to divvy the damage amongst its population.

Now, as for influences, I don't think post-War rebuilding and the Marshall Plan could be an influence in this. At the end of WWII the spirit was of union in Europe, to bury the past; but shortly before WWIII, the Commonwealth was gone, they lacked oil and were all disagreeing and possibly warring each other. Post-war Europe would be more like a return to the Middle and Dark ages, a balkanization of the national entities that live there, more resembling a return to feudalist Europe. I'd love to see post-war communities resembling feuds and their inhabitants, barbarians.

So, I'm not so sure about 1980, at least in Europe: there's no benefits there to build the necessary bonds of the people with the state. The state there is weaker than ever, militarily and economically, so I'm not sure it would reach the potential technological and cultural levels of a retrofuturistic Europe. It would probably remain dependent on the US's cultural influences and economy.

Now, if the European Commonwealth had lived on prosperously, I could damn well picture the Big Brother tending his masses

But that's all me, anyways.,.

 

[UniversalWolf]

As a non-European, I think Spain would be an interesting retrofuturist 1950's setting. It's comparable to the desert southwest of the USA, plus you have Franco hanging around so the government is sort of outcast. There's a lot of potential there.

 

[Silencer]

A wave of balkanization sweeps western Europe -UK, Belgium, France, Italy, Spain, germany all dissolve further into provincial fiefs and city-states, each one out for themselves. This would be the post-war 1940's economy, with rationing and pauperism taken to the extremes. No Marshall Plan for you!

Cold War between Ceaucescu's Romania and Last Best Hope of Western Europe, Norway, sitting on the last natural resuorce reserves. Who controls the <s>spice</s> oil, controls Europa.

"Neutral" Sweden annexed by Norway for their steel, East European nations flocking to the fledgling Soviet Union and their Economic Cooperation Organization, in hopes of being given a share of the cake (i.e. Siberian and Caucasian resources, held by the Red Guard with an iron fist). Also, partisans and saboteurs oppose Soviet rule well into this period.

Total war zones with order through biker gangs in Yugoslavia, Hungary and Greece, since they are now essentially No Man's Land. Swiss gun-nuts preparing for their own alpine "Red Dawn". Enver Hodja orders all population into the bunkers Human Hive style.

Could be fun

 

[Himmelstoss]

Well, since the Soviet Union never fell in the Fallout timeline, it seems reasonable that the Warsaw Pact never fell, either. If East Europe remains Soviet sattelites, it's obviously impossible for the EEC to expand there.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Europe#Borders_with_the_Soviet_Union

By extension, one could also make the further argument that since Europe remains divided, the neutral states in central Europe won't be sucked in, either. This could mean some sort of continued existence of EFTA, perhaps as a semi-independent power bloc in north and central Europe.

I admit that it might be hard to find SciFi inspiration for something like that.

 

[Grayswandir]

It's really funny how things are, I remember in my childhood there were debates about integrating east europa in the EU or not, now it's really hard to think they could'nt be in it.

So the EC would only be the 12 old states. But I kinda think that most of the country of Western Union would have joined the EU eventually (well except Switzerland).
Maybe not immediatly, but as soon as the USSR would have lost enought influence, maybe if at some point the Commonwealth agree to buy soviet products in exchange for a peace pact.
The unified military seems to point that the plan for the European Defence Community didn't failed in 54, and was develloped into a real Army. A Europe with supranational authorities and a common foreign policy, maybe even only one president... Now that 's some science fiction!


I haven't found many european science fiction literature for the 50s 60s, probably because it was then considerate as a minor genre, or because at the time the dream of Western Europe was to become like the US (with washing machine, fridge, phones, bikes...), so they didn't need to imagine one.

It's hard to find some originality, you can pretty much say that, with a few exception (la jetée...), the european science fiction of the time is the american science fiction.
For the belgian bande dessinée, there is of course Edgar P. Jacobs :

There is specially one where one of the protagonist travel throught time travel to a postapocalyptic paris, where we can see a sort of pip boy

a destroyed monorail metro:

There are also some mininukes (fatman ), war robots and such...
Of course you can feel the influence of american comics in it...

Some things that are typically from the 50's are for me the 2ch, ZHe car of zhe fifties...(but there is also the fiat 500, the coccinelle, the DS, the trabant, the vespa...) The cars of Fallout europa would definitly be based out of those model.

And a speculation on how it could have develloped :

For the architecture, I found this, some design doc made by Yona Friedman for her "spatial city".

or a under/above paris of P.Maymont

I think the problematic of western Europe from the time could be transposed back in the 2070. The commonwealth, not being able to sustain their society of consommation collapse, the population of the states tend to fall toward communism. The working classes allied with the left-wings intellectuels advocate a stable system that has proven it's stability behind the iron curtain, leading a civil war within the states between nationalists and liberals against communists.

When the nuclear warheads begin falling, the war follow written protocol...
Europe is hitten both by US and UssR missiles neither of them couldn't afford to let a potential foe standing after a nuclear war...
After the war the nationalists and liberals live mostly in underground shelter under nuked cities, while above in the country communists try to unite the wasteland survivors for a new begining , each one of them blaming the other side for the war, fighting in the name of ideologies neither of them understand anymore... Us against them... There just isn't any ressources for everybody...

Of course each country could be treated a different way, thats just an idea anyway.

Now I am going to look If i can find some sort of Euroboy...

 

[Naissus]

Since the European Commonwealth was losing the resource war and became fragmented, I would kinda like to see maybe the development of steam or something like that and add a bit of steampunk to the 50's retrofuturism of Europe, it would help make it more distinct and just plain different from America.

 

[coliphorbs]

Given the state of Europe in the 50s combined with what we know of Fallout canon, I also lean towards the idea that the whole place simply collapsed and fell prey to violent ideologies much like it did in the 30s.

It would be a much darker place, I think, than the US - but there's no telling how that would reflect on the continent after the bombs fell.

 

[Silencer]

That Michelin dude looks like he's pedaling from The Blast itself

 

[Himmelstoss]

Since the European Commonwealth was losing the resource war and became fragmented, I would kinda like to see maybe the development of steam or something like that and add a bit of steampunk to the 50's retrofuturism of Europe, it would help make it more distinct and just plain different from America.

That's interesting. I happen to know that Sweden kept a large set of old steam-driven trains in storage well into the end of the 1980's. You know, in case of war and power shortages.

It's really funny how things are, I remember in my childhood there were debates about integrating east europa in the EU or not, now it's really hard to think they could'nt be in it.

So the EC would only be the 12 old states. But I kinda think that most of the country of Western Union would have joined the EU eventually (well except Switzerland).
Maybe not immediatly, but as soon as the USSR would have lost enought influence, maybe if at some point the Commonwealth agree to buy soviet products in exchange for a peace pact.
The unified military seems to point that the plan for the European Defence Community didn't failed in 54, and was develloped into a real Army. A Europe with supranational authorities and a common foreign policy, maybe even only one president... Now that 's some science fiction!

But if those countries were completely integrated with a unified military, wouldn't that have precluded a European War?

Also, I must admit that I see a fallen Soviet Union as a mandatory condition for the neutral border countries to join the EC. For example, Austria even had neutrality written into the constitution and Finland had the VSB pact.

 

[Grayswandir]

You mean a war between Euro States?

The ressource war end in 2060, so does the Commonwealth, but the apocalypse ain't before 2077 or so. That leave some 17 years for the coutries to sever their links and reorganise a national military, make alliances, put commercials barriers...

Plus the bible timeline speak of quarrels, not of war. Lets not forget that both UK and France have the nuke, maybe others as well, so a "real" war ain't possible. Maybe they are fighting over the last coal ressources of the Rhur, or the BRD ask the DDR to take over their country ...
I am not sure exactly how far a conflict in Europe should escaladate or what should be at stake.

I like the steam idea, but not the Steampunk one. Even if its a style that i enjoy very much, fallout for me have to stay a nuclear role playing game.

 

[Falloutsurvivor]

do you think that there other new country in europe?


in america they have NCR on the west coast and rivet city (city state)
on the east coast.

but what about Europe.

 

[Himmelstoss]

That depends a bit on what you call a "country." Are Rivet City or Megaton countries? Is the Republic of Dave?

But yeah, organized, semi-civilized areas in Europe will probably be nothing like the old ones.

 

[Naissus]

If Europe survived I'm sure there are plenty of city-states. Possibly several are like Metro 2033. Maybe that is how Europe survived.

 

[Hausen]

Countries which survived apocalypse in Europe could be difficult to find, but maybe city-states, cities which have survived but can't extend their sovereignty to other cities. Government in certain areas of Europe seems to be at a very local level, and I wouldn't doubt that Vault-Tec was peddling their sheltering solutions throughout Europe as well. Humanity there could have survived, only problem is, as Europe is small and densely populated, certain vaults would have to shelter multiple nationalities, and conflicts would ensue.

Now I doubt anything like NCR would come up. The EC crumbling itself, it's like the fall of Rome all over again, quarreling states plagued by outlaws, and those outside castles (then) and vaults (now) vulnerable to outlaw action. City states would be the best bet, if they can survive.

 

[General Goose]

I'm actually working a Fallout Britain idea (mainly focused around London, but also the rest of the Southeast, from Brighton to Norfolk.) Europe would be a pretty nice location to visit as a whole. The society would be a lot more disorganised though some city states and many small villages had began to crop up. Otherwise, slavery, illness, poverty and war are just as common, if not more so, then in America. In my Fallout Britain idea, Britain was able to afford to start building an equivalent to the Vault programme (with one in East Anglia for the government), yet with no malevolent purpose.

 

[Himmelstoss]

I'm actually working a Fallout Britain idea (mainly focused around London, but also the rest of the Southeast, from Brighton to Norfolk.) Europe would be a pretty nice location to visit as a whole. The society would be a lot more disorganised though some city states and many small villages had began to crop up. Otherwise, slavery, illness, poverty and war are just as common, if not more so, then in America. In my Fallout Britain idea, Britain was able to afford to start building an equivalent to the Vault programme (with one in East Anglia for the government), yet with no malevolent purpose.

Did anything come of the project? Was it connected tol Fallout : Yurop?

 

[Lexx]

Pretty sure at least germany would fall back into a kind of medieval time post-war with "castles" (cities / industrial facilities transformed into castles from junk and whatever is available) and robber-knights and stuff, combined with Orwell's 1984-esque elements as pre-war background and lots of east vs. west conflicts over everything. I think that could make a quite interesting setting... but never under the Fallout brand.

 

[BigBoss]

I would like to see China to be honest. Or Canada. Maybe Mexico.

 

[Joelzania]

Pretty sure at least germany would fall back into a kind of medieval time post-war with "castles" (cities / industrial facilities transformed into castles from junk and whatever is available) and robber-knights and stuff, combined with Orwell's 1984-esque elements as pre-war background and lots of east vs. west conflicts over everything. I think that could make a quite interesting setting... but never under the Fallout brand.

Onto the castle idea, Europe already has a vast wealth of castles and fortifications that are in relatively in good nick. Now, I'm sure if the bombs fell that most of these would be swept away, but the castles out in the countryside could well still exist.