A Fallout 3 Conversation

[Paladin Solo]

Oh yah, you know, because all intelligent people absolutely abhor games that require hand-eye co-ordination to play.

...

Listen, Rosh, and some of you other guys. Console gamers are not all morons. People who enjoy shooters are not all morons. Me and all my friends just spent a weekend playing Halo 3, Gears of War, and Bioshock on that singularity of evil so dubbed the Xbox 360 and had a blast doing it, and we are not gibbering drooling idiots. In fact, me and my 360 toting friend are probably the smartest kids in my school.

Missed the point did you? So just because an person can enjoy testosterone-filled, graphically-emphasised games justifies the console market dumbing itself down with each and every generation, and worse, acting like the mass majority of the gamers are its target audience, hence, enjoy simplified games that can devalue story, design, context, and attitude to better fit the ability to just blow shit up and pretty colours? It's one thing that those types of games are offered as a choice to people who just want a quick pick-me-up, but it's another thing when the gaming market (more specifically, the console market) is flooded with those types only usually masking themselves as something better, new, or different. Furthermore, does that dumbing down justify the raping of well-established franchises? The majority of 360 gamers buy stupid shit for their platform because why? Because little else is offered, or because of ignorance and stupidity, maybe both? There's a reason why the same guys who thought Oblivion was the RPG of the year think Fallout 3 will redefine the RPG genre (then again, the console is full of bullshit RPGs, so maybe Oblivion does shine when compared to the rest of the crowd, even though, it's just a fantasy action-adventure hack-and-slash disguised as an RPG). Compare gaming trends ten years ago to now. Games are getting easier, shorter, dumber, shinier, more explosive, and more pay-for-content small expansions. I can pick up and remember plenty of classics, but after about an hour or two of playing the majority of games today, I usually toss them in the bin and forget about it. There's always going to be simple shoot'em ups, but when the market is flooded with these self-proclaimed immersive games (which is simply a game with a short, boring story and have features like sandbox, ueber graphics, and/or 1980's Hollywood-style action to compensate for its flaws) and their developers peddling it as revolutionising the industry when all it is is recycled garbage painted with a different colour. Hell, I remember playing the classic simple shoot'em ups and still enjoy them today because they offered something new and fresh, instead of recycled crap. Sure, there are good games that bless the console market just like there are shitty games that shame the PC market (which is following the trends of the console market more and more, and also getting less and less exclusive titles), but it's hard to argue that a trend of dumbing-down isn't happening. I don't know, maybe I just take gaming more seriously now than I did when I was six.

Only idiots enjoy shooting stuff, and only morons want a game system that will run everything they buy for it, without upgrades, unsupported parts, or Shader 3.1253.

I've upgraded my PC hardware once in the last three years, and that was because my PSU failed. Compare that to shitty consoles that usually die within a few months or have faulty engineering in the first generation models, which take two or more years before a model worthy of lasting for a year or two gets released a year before the ueber next-gen consoles come out. Please, a pc is a more cost-effective and longer-lasting platform than a console, and you get far more bang for your buc with a platform that can do more than just connect to an online gaming market and play graphically intensive games. If you can't find yourself a computer that can dish out just as much bloom as the 360 for under a thousand dollars, then you're either too blind or too stupid. Not-to-mention, it'll last longer and the most you'll have to upgrade other than dead hardware is your graphics card in a few years and that's only if you want to get the fullest graphics out of your bloom-intensified games. My graphics card can still handle any PC game on the market today, and will most-likely be able to handle most games for another two years before I'll have to upgrade if I want to fully squeeze the juice out of some game. That's a five-year lifespan just for being able to play graphically-intense games. I'm not even referring to minimum specs yet, as there will still be a large stockpile of games that will not require "ueber-graphics card x2" as most console gamers think.

So, howsabout you quit with this retarded generalizing about x-brick moron whoring and find something legitimate to bitch about.

You mean like the dumbing-down of the gaming market into glory-filled, action-packed, shoot this, go here, kill him, look at all the bloom, story and substance can be compromised games? Hey, and we'll market it with a campaign of lies and throw more money at the problems instead of fixing it. Whatever happened to 'dare to be different'?

 

[Simeon]

I just wanted to take out a moment to give much love to your sig.
I had a ship in EVE named R. Young for awhile.
Starship Troopers forever. That is all.

 

[Kyuu]

Smacko, there's a reason why there aren't rpgs like Fallout, Arcanum, Torment, even Baldur's Gate on consoles.

Mostly because console controllers are ill-equipped for that sort of game, and most people don't buy consoles to play that sort of game. I like having both a PC and a console, as I enjoy all sorts of games. Love my Mario, Sonic, Zelda and Final Fantasies, but I also love my Baldur's Gates, Fallouts, etc. and so on. I don't really get why people get so stuck on platforms (not because there aren't differences; there are). I just care if the game is good.

A shitload of shoters tho'.

Hope you're not forgetting that FPSs were first developed for the PC, and were exclusively a PC genre for quite some time (before Goldeneye on the N64, no one really played FPSs on consoles, at least that I recall... I remember renting an FPS for the PS1 a long time ago, and the controls and game in general were just atrocious). Ah, fond memories of the first Unreal... (Unreal II not so much). Shooters are still better on the PC, even if for the sole reason of WASD + mouse controls.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Ah, don't mind Smacko Paco, he was defending his dear consoles in another thread too with arguments about the controller and such, but when real arguments poured in against him he stopped replying. Wanna bet the same will happen here too?

Oh yah, you know, because all intelligent people absolutely abhor games that require hand-eye co-ordination to play.

Again, you completely miss the point. Either that, or straw-mans is all you've got.
I'm sure pretty much anyone enjoys a dumb action game from time to time. It's much like a watching a popcorn movie.
The point was about dumbing down every game on the consoles, because that's why people buy consoles - for quick, easy and even better, casual action games.

 

[goffy59]

Smacko, there's a reason why there aren't rpgs like Fallout, Arcanum, Torment, even Baldur's Gate on consoles.
Not to mention games like The Longest Journey etc.
A shitload of shoters tho'.

I love your sig. That was so cool when that happened. The text box = ownage. Allows you to enjoy the game more by using your imagination along with the very artistic talent that had amazing style.
And I agree, console controllers suck. If I had Halo 3 on PC, versus some fool on a console; they would die. One thing I noticed, it also depends on the game and how the developers made you move around. I found it much easier to use the controller on Bioshock then any game on the 360. In fact, I was having a lot of fun on the 360; regardless for my distaste of a console(waste of money). Halo, I can move around but aiming is pretty fucking lame. Its like a grid or something, doesn't move smoothly due to the horrible design of the analog stick. My favorite console controller of all time would have to be the N64, and secondly the Atari controller. Pure genious!

 

[Black]

Mostly because console controllers are ill-equipped for that sort of game, and most people don't buy consoles to play that sort of game.

Exactly.

Hope you're not forgetting that FPSs were first developed for the PC, and were exclusively a PC genre for quite some time (before Goldeneye on the N64, no one really played FPSs on consoles, at least that I recall...

I'm not. I know that PC have a shitload of dumb FPS games too. But! We have Fallout. We have Torment. We have Ultima. We have Wizardry.
There are no such games on the consoles and the reason is probably what you've said before- people don't buy consoles to play that kind of games i.e. people buy consoles to shoot at stuff.
On top of that, 'consolizatin' is a terrifying term for PC users. Deus Ex 2? Fallout 3?

 

[whirlingdervish]

"People buy consoles to shoot at stuff".

let me rephrase that for you:


"people, who don't know any better about FPS gaming and who are just playing to kill wave after wave of enemies with poor-AI, buy consoles to shoot at stuff."


Listen up,
People who really want to to play a good multiplayer shooter, instead of a nerfed-for-the-controller piece of crap, still use a PC, even in this age of nextgen shinyness.

No amount of explaining the intricacies of the xbox controller will ever make it as accurate and effective as a mouse and keyboard.

Competitive FPS players (aka: not Halo players) don't need a bigscreen and a joystick. They need frames per second, and highly accurate and fast, aiming controls.

Consolization is a scary term even for FPS gamers.

 

[Mord_Sith]

Dreamcast WOO!

Sorry, couldn't help it, at any rate I've seen some interesting things done with consoles, but IMHO they should stick to shooters, fighters, and puzzles, unless you have a specialized controller for your x-brick 3700921.1 you're not going to get enough function out of it to strategically maneuver yourself out of a wet paper bag.

I play some shooters once in a while, but even though I am still far more a fan of TBS and RTS games than anything else, to take frustrations out on another player is fine, but it gets real bloody old real bloody fast, but pulling him apart, piece by little piece, or to try and match wits against a fellow rather than twitch, that's far more challenging and amusing to me.

Plus compared to most new games coming out these days for consoles, I'd rather play moonwalker than subject myself to their brainless monotony, and if that doesn't say anything I don't know what does.

 

[Roshambo]

Oh yah, you know, because all intelligent people absolutely abhor games that require hand-eye co-ordination to play. We're to smart for our bodies, and require time and oceanic depth in every gaming experience. Only idiots enjoy shooting stuff, and only morons want a game system that will run everything they buy for it, without upgrades, unsupported parts, or Shader 3.1253.

I also like shooters. I like action games. I play nearly every genre known to man. When I want to play a CRPG - I want to play a CRPG. When I want to play a decent game, I load it up on my computer and have fun.

When I pay too much on a console to play a couple of passable FPS games to consider shit like Oblivion or Fallout 3 "innovative and amazing", then I'm an X-Brick Moron®.

Listen, Rosh, and some of you other guys. Console gamers are not all morons. People who enjoy shooters are not all morons. Me and all my friends just spent a weekend playing Halo 3, Gears of War, and Bioshock on that singularity of evil so dubbed the Xbox 360 and had a blast doing it, and we are not gibbering drooling idiots. In fact, me and my 360 toting friend are probably the smartest kids in my school

Too bad you geniuses didn't figure out that you could have a FAR better experience on PC for any of those, including the muchly overhyped Halo series. You would also have a piece of hardware capable of playing something other than maybe three decent games and a SHITLOAD OF CRAPPY ACTION TRASH.

And if you folks are products of the US Public Education System, you've pretty much just answered my point.

So, howsabout you quit with this retarded generalizing about x-brick moron whoring and find something legitimate to bitch about.

How about you unplug your head from your ass and get a clue that the X-Brick is all about shitty action games to the point of destroying anything potentially creative that *might* have once existed, because it would be wasted upon the idiots?

"Project Ego"/Fable: Overhyped and lied, but it's great because it's the best the X-Brick cattle have to enjoy. The bestest CRPG ever for many naive X-Brick tards.

Freelancer: Never released for console, but dumbed down for a possible console release. Blame the X-Brick tards as the target audience.

Jade Empire: I joke - nobody with a clue really expects BioWare to do anything truly imaginative but rip off other games like Fallout for Baldur's Gate, and then do an absolutely mediocre job on the parts they rip off.

Morrowind: A beloved action-adventure series that was turned formulaic - deriving from other games' formulas instead of its own. It had to be appropriately dumbed down for the console audience.

Oblivion: Because the X-Brick is all about Shiny™ over substance, Oblivion is a shiny and retarded turd, the PC AI had to be crippled so the X-Brick wouldn't be blamed for crippling their overhyped "Radiant AI". The X-Brick morons still lapped it up.

Fallout: POS: If it wasn't for the PC Fallout fans giving a clue to the X-Brick gaming media, then this title might have been mistakenly lapped up as "Cool and a welcome addition to the Fallout franchise". Gamebanshee still has shitstains from Chuck Cuevas all over their face.

Fallout 3: Because Bethesda is either talentless or clueless, and because the target X-Brick audience are utter morons, Fallout 3 will be lauded as a "OMFGWONDERFUL!" FPS, because it might offer a bit more replay than BioShock while ripping off whatever they could "learn" from it. About the only thing the X-Brick does is make shiny action games for a target audience that is too stupid to know better.


And if you're stupid enough to buy a console solely for shooters...that's your stupid mistake. I loved the Playstation, Super Famicom, and many others for the VARIETY they offer. Even the GameCube offers more than the X-Brick, because the X-Brick is essentially a Paris Hilton - pretty to look at an play with for five minutes, but boring once you find out that she only cares about her looks as there's not a Goddamn thing upstairs.

The controls on console FPS are shitty, too! Jack shit compared to a PC. So yeah, X-Brick is the moron's console of choice, not just because of the selection of titles they laud in their ignorance, but they also like the shitty control scheme designed around them. A pity you can't really run something like Battlefield 2142 on an X-Brick and expect to snipe with a stupid analog controller versus a trackball or even a mouse. Being able to manipulate an interface and not rely on "hotspots" for the console cursor to jump between also helps in considering the console a piece of shit.

Frankly, the X-Brick crowd couldn't tell shit games if they stepped in them, because there really isn't a damn bit of good on the X-Brick to use as comparison for these naive dipshits. Maybe a couple of shooters, but the rest of the games are shiny, shitty, and stupid.

Just like the devoted X-Brick audience. After all, who else could be repeatedly shit on by game publishers and remain grinning, and even enjoy that kind of treatment?

 

[Mick1965]

Hey, good to see you back Rosh. I haven't been checking NMA as much as I used to, so maybe I'm a bit behind the times.

I decided to buy an X-Brick a couple of months ago and I enjoy it for what it is, just a bit of mindless fun. Like someone said earlier in this thread, it's like watching a mindless popcorn movie.

The X-Brick was a difficult decision at first, I already have a laptop that I use for work and some games like Civ & Fallout. I couldn't justify the cost of another PC, and the laptop is not that upgradable.

I've really enjoyed the console games over the last couple of months, and that includes Bioshock and Halo 3. When you spend a couple of hours a day commuting on a motorbike you can come home pretty frustrated with how you're treated by the other traffic*. It can be good stress relief to shoot a few things while switching the brain off after a hard days work, and after you've put the baby to bed.

Is the console better/worse than the PC for shooters? I'm still getting used to the controller, and I'm not sure that it's as good as the mouse. But I can settle back in the beanbag and play on the widescreen plasma while the wife works on the PC in the study, and that to me is relaxing.

*Note: For the NMAers in Europe, motorbikes generally are frowned on in Aus, and drivers get shitty when you move through traffic. They tend to swerve across to block you or tailgate you until you get a chance to move lanes.

Mick

 

[Kyuu]

Is the console better/worse than the PC for shooters? I'm still getting used to the controller, and I'm not sure that it's as good as the mouse.

Once you get used to it, the 360 controller is pretty fair, and I like it best of any console controller I've used (bought one to hook up to my comp for emulation and those few games which actually work better with joypad controls). It's still not as comfortable, quick, or accurate as WASD + mouse for shooters, though, and the button limitation can add some awkwardness if there's a lot of different gameplay functions to worry about.

But I can settle back in the beanbag and play on the widescreen plasma while the wife works on the PC in the study, and that to me is relaxing.

That's one thing consoles generally have over PCs. Most people don't set up their PCs with a couch (though a good office chair is plenty comfy), and, generally, your TV has a much larger screen (although a good PC monitor is pretty much always of better quality than the majority of HD TVs).

 

[pkt-zer0]

I know that PC have a shitload of dumb FPS games too. But! We have Fallout. We have Torment. We have Ultima. We have Wizardry.

And how about something more recent?
My point being that nowadays there seem to be far too many PC games that could easily pass for a console game, or heck, are straight console ports/multiplatform releases.

I've no problems with console games at all, as long as PC games providing a different sort of experience exist as well.

 

[Black]

And how about something more recent?
My point being that nowadays there seem to be far too many PC games that could easily pass for a console game, or heck, are straight console ports/multiplatform releases.

What can I say, gaming market is more shitty today. Good thing we can still expect something cool from The Witcher or Age of Decadence. But with developers like EA or bethesda it doesn't look so well.

 

[Roshambo]

Consoles are simply meant for a different audience. While many were playing several other platformers and the old great CRPGs in the 1980's, most of the current gaming audience and the gaming press were discovering Nintendo and Super Mario Bros.

The best "CRPG" for some time on it was a pathetic little Wizardry clone called Dragon Quest that offered NONE of the game complexity of Wizardry. Other CRPGs were ports from PC, Amiga, and Apple II.

The industry hasn't gotten much better, in fact, going downhill for console standards being used as the overall standard for many releases.

Again, JUST LIKE BACK IN 1997!

 

[Mick1965]

Consoles are simply meant for a different audience.

Generally speaking you might be right. There would be some people, like myself, who would enjoy a variation of games though. I'll probably only use the console for FPS's. In my (limited) experience on the console I haven't had any issues with that type of game, and I'll probably keep it for games like Half Life in future.

Unfortunately the game industry isn't what it used to be. People used to use their imaginations when playing games, whereas nowadays everything is spoon fed and you don't need to think so much. Not to mention that a lot of the mainstream gaming public is deluded as to what RPG really means. Some people even think that The SIMS is an RPG.

I hope that something comes along eventually that will be as good as some of the old games, but I won't hold my breath. Maybe if we all collectively lower our expectations (a lot) then we can become just as excited as we used to whenever a new game comes out.

Mick

 

[Mord_Sith]

If we lower our expectations, we'll get less and less each time we lower them, somehow I don't think they'll stop at spoon feeding, next they will automate the process into forced spoon feeding, then a straw, then it'll just be an iv and we sit there dumbly staring at a poorly animated picture for 20 minutes and call it immersion.

As for low standards of RPGs, a girl I know was quoted in a local paper stating that Halo was an RPG, she has YET to live it down.