slobberindeathclaw said:
Um, no. Cattle graze with VERY occasional grain feeding, simply because of the mass quantums of vegetation consumed by them. There simply wouldn't be any grains left over for the humans -- they'd be farming just to feed the darned cows, and would be better off simply eating the grains themselves.
Apparently you didn't notice how little vegetation there is (and I've pointed out numerous times for the morons in this thread), and how hard it is to just raise a brahmin. Yes, it takes that much farming to support one. Now think about how fucking useless a horse would be in comparison.
The very existence of Brahmin dictates that there must be substantial grazeable plantlife.
Well, unless there's a giant field of grass off-camera, you might want to substantiate this ignorant little assumption of yours, considering what was a thickly grass and woodland covered area - California is pretty fucking barren now. It is comparatively a parking lot with hills because the vegetation DID die out, except for what little sturdy weeds that could grow. Are weeds nutritious to cattle? Not really, and can be unhealthy.
And if there's grazing for Brahmin, there is for muta-horses too. Not to mention that you need the muta-horses (or vehicles) simply to deal with any significant number of brahmin.
Disregarding your idiocy in context with livestock, which is by my estimation wholly clueless, brahmin still offer a lot more than a horse or mutated horse ever could unless it increased its milk production by tenfold. Also, there seemed to be a lack of horses before, even in The Hub, which is a commercial center. IF there would have ever been a reason to keep horses, including such important things as breeding stock (which the Vaults were designed and concerned with as well), then it would have been at The Hub. It would have also been in competition with the brahmin for food, for less given back, and for less use.
Keeping a stable with sufficient genetic stock to keep the horse line going would be simply exhorbitant to anyone in the wasteland. Your brahmin genetic stock is expanded by having your brahmin foal from the sires of another location's herd or family stock. Much as they did back in the Wild West.
Speaking of the Wild West, most families up to the 1850's in the US had a cow for the whole family, extended even (about 10 people), that could easily supply them with milk and labor. The field labor of 10 people plus that cow would easily feed a cow and themselves even if they had a limited grow cycle (wasteland, again) and had to rely on more grain to support their animals.
1. Horses are smarter and have equal or better survival chances after the Great War than Brahmin
Oh, yes. There's so much more a horse can give post-war survivors than a brahmin, and therefore they would be an obvious choice! As a citizen in the wasteland, I so desperately want to feed a horse to take me to other locations, perhaps till the field with the brahmin, and eventually become meat after all that time. Rather than have a fresh source of daily dairy, which would be nearly GOLD in the wasteland.
2. Horses provide transportation, combat, herding, and companionship functions that Brahmin cannot
Brahmin provide transportation, don't really need to be herded, and given that the family cow is held sacred to many subsistance living people, can be a companion to the point of being considered a member of the family. They are just as part of the family's survival as any other member. Again, you need to research what kind of life the wasteland resembles with the sparse population of mankind.
Also, what would you have your horse fight? A mantis or a molerat? Pretty much everything else would be like a joke and the horse would be a snack.
3. After dogs, horses are the most trainable mammal in North America
So you'll train them to do what? Till the soil? Travel? Oh, wait, brahmin already are capable of that, hence why they are kept and supported by the remaining humans.
4. Horses are necessary for any herding of Brahmin, unless vehicles are used
You are quite the idiot when it comes to livestock. I hope you remember the family cow I mentioned earlier. They don't need to be tethered or herded, and can be trained to come when called.
Your supermarket hunter idiocy offends me as someone who HAS lived from the land.
5. Horse milk/meat could be used as a supplemental food source, particularly in a world where iguana-on-a-stick is a delicacy.
Only to a FRACTION of what a cow/brahmin could offer. And a brahmin is already better than a cow if you count the head cheese.
Herding an herbivore isn't too much of a problem, since, you know, the wasteland is full of things WANTING TO EAT THEM. So naturally they are not going to wander. Same as when you have wolves calling miles around an open cow barn, they will NOT step out of it without a human nearby. Those are the ones that are not attended to like the family cow or family team of cows, and already they are brighter than you give them credit for.
Fuck, do I have to do the thinking for every noob?
Kaya said:
Rosh is obviously a very smart guy but just because he says something that doesn't actually make it automatically true or right, as suprisiong as that may sound.
However, without contrary proof, what I have found will have to work.
I'm sorry I don't exactly link you to a page for each and every point, but I figure that if your schooling is insufficient, you can either look it up through Google or not even bother to continue wasting bandwidth with baseless stupidity of your ignorance of both Fallout's and 50's science fiction styles. You are ignorant of both and presume to tell us your garbage? Unbelievable. I suppose your schooling is even more insufficient than I had previously estimated.
Especially when the topic of discussion is a matter of personal preference ina game which itself is already somewhat lacking in plausibility and logic in certain areas.
It sucks when a player has a PE of 1 while they are playing a game. Sorry if I and the others who have played this game, discussed it with the developers, etc, etc, etc, since before it was released don't quite agree with the random nooblet that joins to mentally masturbate about horses without any fucking clue about the fiction style and how they are applied to said fiction style by the developers.
Hello, numbnuts, I'm a fucking admin here. I have been so long before you even discovered Fallout.
I wouldn't say that DeathClaws are especially 50's, but they fit within the setting, do they not?
Perhaps your most moronic statement yet, aside from the one about veracity above. Unlike you and others, I make certain to check my facts.
DeathClaws are highly 50's fiction style. They are mutated into larger, deadlier forms from something commonly considered harmless, and it now preys on humankind as a sort of ironic lesson in man's meddling with nature.
Same with Supermutants, though maybe they can fit within the 50's movies about science gone wrong kinda thing.
Wow, the way you put it, it's like saying Madame Curie worked with radioactive stuff. And Newton figured out that things fell.
Before you try to tell me what are within 50's science fiction styles that Fallout borrows from, I suggest that you first educate yourself about it. It doesn't help when you then say that you're ignorant of the styles because you weren't alive then. Wow, suddenly I can't tell what "Victorian" is because I'm not over a hundred years old!
I don't regard Horses as expllicitly 50's in the first place. Domesticated horses have been part of human life for more than 4,000 years, The 1950's is a very short time period in comparison.
And then you completely disregard the point of fiction style, the only part where horses may have any relevance to this discussion...brilliant.
I think this is the reason people think horses have a place in Fallout - there aren't many cars, as you yourself say.
And what travel is there to do in the wasteland outside of caravaning? THERE IS NONE. THANK YOU AND OTHERS FOR MISSING THIS POINT COMPLETELY, BUT I HAVE NOW HAD TO REPEAT MYSELF.
The Highwayman was considered to be rare, since electronic cars were supposed to have been fried from the EMP. Luck managed to provide a spare replacement part from a shielded location, which was similarly fairly unique. It was a relic that a wanderer found and managed to use, sort of like Road Warrior.
And we're supposed to believe that someone's going to pop a horse out of their ass for Fallblivion. Yeah, given it's Bethesda, I can certainly guarantee that they would snap up this crap without bothering to do any background design research like pretty much anyone who has argued for a horse in the setting when they have an obviously lower usefulness to people as a whole in the wasteland. There might be an isolated thing, but there had better be some pretty fucking brilliant writing behind it, in the realm that someone can afford to keep a whole breeding stock of animals that are resource insignificant compared to brahmin.
I didn't see any supermutants in the 50's. Though I wasn't there so I can't be sure...
Human mutation has been a theme common in science fiction from the 50's on, especially in pulps (from which Fallout borrows style from if you couldn't tell by the art design, the loading screens, or by the lead artist telling the influences himself), which gave birth to the more popular mutations in the 60's. Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, etc. all revolved around mutation theories and threats first borne in the 50's era of science-fiction. The difference is that 50's styling was darker, while the 60's were more light and flippant with the styles and mutations, not always using it as an ironic story of mankind's meddling with nature that was prevalent in the years shortly after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
So what's stopping you from educating yourself by listening to some radio shows, watching some TV serials, and also digging up many of the movies from that time? You post your waffling bullshit, then try to use this as an excuse to rationalize your ignorance? So exactly why the fuck did you post this shit?
You do not have a monopoly on what is 'right' in the Fallout setting.
Especially when the object in question is something that obviously existed and was in use during the time period that the game is inspired by.
Again, I have to point out that the setting was described in detail, along with what I can put together through my own game design experiences, that I can figure out the setting. You can also turn on your brain and READ the in-game information to develop a further clue about the setting.
And your logic is because horses existed and were used in the 50's, then they should still exist in Fallout's fiction style, even though it does not fit into Fallout's universe, social or community structures, at all?
Beautiful logic, there. No, not really. What a fantastic way to ignore the setting elements on a straw man argument that they were around in the 50's.
Wake the fuck up, grow the fuck up, and educate yourselves, kids. I may seem irate, but that might be due to having to try and overcome someone's obvious waste of taxpayer dollars and lack of effort to do any research of their own with easily-available information. If you're ignorant about it, then don't argue with that ignorance, because that makes it stupidity.
(in fantasy RPG)
