A little Chinese sabre rattling

My point being they have done less destruction and chaos to the world than many other civilizations. While people were being lynched in England for learning the legacy the Greeks left behind Islam was allowing all religions to practice under the same mosque cure disease give the gift of complex mathematics and allowing conquered lands to remain as they were before they came. They incorporated each land into their own with little bias or discrimination. Now it is true they have done the wrong thing now and then. How many times has the wrong thing been done to them?

My over all point being the people of Islam do not give up. Just as any other country the US has tried to occupy. Korea, Japan or Vietnam to name a few.

To hit your point about the moors... right after they attacked the Christians in 700ish AD did they not become conquered by them? It was attack after attack... No doubt the Moors would have done the same if they did succeed in the first place. I do not believe they would have forced the Christians to convert or die as the Christians did to them.
 
"They don't give up" isn't very unique or anything. People tend to resent interlopers coming in and telling them how to do things.

And Muslims have had their episodes of tolerance and brutality. Islamic nations would shelter Jews fleeing Christian Europe, and now Muslim nations are the biggest producers of anti-Jewish propaganda.
 
I sincerely doubt any of this was accidental at all... people need to be reminded every so and a while that the threat of a nuclear armaggedon is still all to real, if nothing but to make them more prone to further propaganda. That's just one of the ways governements shape public perception, which is even more crucial in todays "democracies". Anyways, chances are far more in favor of wintessing another Cold War, rather than a Thermonuclear one.
Don't worry to much. Stress is not good for ya. :)
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It's not necessarily impossible that the general was talking out of his ass. When people are pointing nukes at each other, it pays to have tough skin and not be too sensitive.

But actually I agree. This fellow should have known better. Perhaps he was just speaking honestly about doctrine- if war gets hot between the US and China it would probably go nuclear.

But lets assume it isn't a mistake- then what?
Well he's not saying anything we shouldn't have already guessed. When the US sails two nuclear weapon carrying aircraft carriers to Taiwan when the PRC begins to sabre rattling, we basically suggest that this could easily go from regional tactical war to global nuclear, and it's up to the Chinese if they want to party.

By making this public the Chinese might be trying to communicate directly to the American people, asking them- "Is Taipai worth Taipai?" It might also be a message to the US that China can't be pushed around.

Alternatively it could also be a signal- both the US and the Chinese have security interests and need each other to work out our differences. During the campaing W repeatedly said that we would work with China to sort out North Korea (a claim I thought was kind of bogus- when does the US count on China for its national security?). Perhaps the Chinese are communicating that they have interests in Taipai. If we want to get a deal in North Korea, maybe we have to do a deal over Taiwan.
 
It sounds like saber rattling to me as well. Intentional or not, it's people like him that remind us of what we have to fear. I'd rather not be in Anchorage if we go to war with the Chinese or North Koreans. Of course, I'd rather be sitting in a self-sustaining, underground lunar colony if the shit were to really hit the fan.

As someone pointed out, them not being able to go to war with us conventionally is pretty much wrong. They can fight us, they have man power and weapons systems. In a prolonged engagement though, the US probably would come out on top unless it went nuclear... But in that case, China would become a glass parking lot along with whoever we decided to fling a few at while we were at it. - Colt
 
Maphusio said:
My point being they have done less destruction and chaos to the world than many other civilizations.
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Hmm :looks at the map: doesn’t look very peaceful to me.


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oh yeah, back to the topic, there's a nice article about the Chinese nuke capabilities http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=nd03norris
 
Actually, the Ottoman Empire was among the more warlike empires ever, and did little/nothing for it's non-Muslim inhabitants, and generally took millions of the most talented Christians and Non-Muslims into semi-slavery, not to mention their constant state of war with Austria, Poland, Russia and the Caucases.
 
Wonder when John'd join in.

Doing little/nothing *for* non-muslim inhabitants is a damn shite better than what the Christians were doing, John. Remember that shortly after the Reconquista, Judaism was officially banned in Spain. You'd convert, flee or die. Under the Ottomans the Jews could more-or-less live as they wanted, in Spain, after Spain conquered the country back, they were all gone. Somehow that doesn't make the Christians look all that good
 
Relative righteousness is not righteousness. And judging a nation on how they treat a tiny minority like the Jewish population is sillyness. Spain had just ended 1,000 years of ethnic and religious warfare against a wealthy, smart enemy, the Ottomans rarley did anything but rule.

The Ottoman Empire was the capital of non-Eastern Civilization for a few centuries, and during that time it really did little but bleed off of the millenia old wealth of the Levantine and Eastern European areas and it's half hearted tolerance is, in retropspect, not even a benefit in the Balkans and Europe as it resulted in Ethnic conflict in the modern era.

They where not the worst empire of the era, that would probably go to Spain, but they where not the most moral.
 
Hovercar Madness said:
Am I the only one who finds this hilarious?
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No, man, I'm right next to you laughing out loud.

Seriously, John, you can only stretch logic so far to support your poin. Terrorists are also only "relatively" unrighteous, it's stupid to judge the Ottoman Empire by modern-day standards rather than by the standards of the day.

I'm also curious as to who's more moral than the Ottomans, back then...Hmmm, maybe Poland-Lithuania
 
John my previous posts are not just crap I thought up. The pretty much contradict what you said and were taken from the source I provided a link too. The Ottoman's were conquerors. However, the lands they conquered remained relatively un-changed to the people there. All religions of the day were treated equally. Were it not for the Ottomans and their ancestors who knows how long Europe would have remained in the dark ages. Who knows how long medicine, complex mathematics would have remained lost.
 
Aye, equally, Christianity and the USA and its liberal way of lifestyle will one day become backward, insignificant, dust in the wind.

Inevitability of time. It's happened to everyone, it'll happen to us
 
Kharn said:
Aye, equally, Christianity and the USA and its liberal way of lifestyle will one day become backward, insignificant, dust in the wind.

Inevitability of time. It's happened to everyone, it'll happen to us
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Amazing, most people I tell that look at me funny... As if Rome never fell. Surely I jest, thats the look they give me.
 
Well, it took Rome such a LONG TIME to fall, see. Not that Western Culture is anything like Rome, I mean, it's not like we're exporting our way of life to other cultures, I mean, it's not like we've protected our interests with the most powerful militaries in the world, I mean...
 
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