<center></center>
Last edited by a moderator:
Agility Fallout 4 SPECIAL video
- Thread starter Kilus
- Start date
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
So, the only uses for Agility is VATS and Sneak?
Right. So basically, Agility is the new Sneak skill, because VATS can fuck right off. It's more engaging to just deal with the real-time combat than it is to have to watch each slow-mo shot and it's far more efficient as well. The only thing that VATS was good for IMO was scanning for named NPC's in new settlements, scouting the wasteland and dark interiors (which was practically cheating as nothing got close to surprising me) and abusing the absurd damage resistance in FO3.
If it wasn't for it being tied to Sneak I'd say this is yet another dump-stat. But Sneak can be a damn good thing to level up if that's how you wanna play the game, so it depends; How much does the stat affect sneaking and are there perks for sneaking as well? Because of the perks out-do the stat then the only useful thing about the stat is unlocking the perks. Which has pretty much been the case for all previous stats.
Right. So basically, Agility is the new Sneak skill, because VATS can fuck right off. It's more engaging to just deal with the real-time combat than it is to have to watch each slow-mo shot and it's far more efficient as well. The only thing that VATS was good for IMO was scanning for named NPC's in new settlements, scouting the wasteland and dark interiors (which was practically cheating as nothing got close to surprising me) and abusing the absurd damage resistance in FO3.
If it wasn't for it being tied to Sneak I'd say this is yet another dump-stat. But Sneak can be a damn good thing to level up if that's how you wanna play the game, so it depends; How much does the stat affect sneaking and are there perks for sneaking as well? Because of the perks out-do the stat then the only useful thing about the stat is unlocking the perks. Which has pretty much been the case for all previous stats.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Okay they realize not all ghouls are zombies right? Sneak is the only "skill" tied to Agility which makes me think it's another dump stat, if I didn't know any better I would think Fallout 4 is a parody of the real Fallout games.
frajaq
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Man that animated Mister Sandman perk was vicious haha
I'm a bit surprised there's a perk specifically for reloading speed, but the sneak attack looked nice just like in previous Fallout games. If Agility still gives you AP in VATS it's still gonna be worth to spend some points on it.
I'm a bit surprised there's a perk specifically for reloading speed, but the sneak attack looked nice just like in previous Fallout games. If Agility still gives you AP in VATS it's still gonna be worth to spend some points on it.
PossibleCabbage
Vault 22 Survivor
The first sequence makes it seem like the level of slow-motion in VATS (it's not a true pause anymore) is tied to your ability. So dumping it might be dangerous unless you want to aim by hand (I know I don't.)
I also can't believe they're bringing back Mr. Sandman. That was a spectacularly useless perk.
Practicat
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Mr Fish, I think VATS is extremely useful in close quarters. It let's you plan a queue of attacks and see them executed to perfection. While in action, it also slows down time for everyone else relative to you, allowing you to take less damage than in real time. FONV reduced the damage resistance in VATS from 85% to 15%, and reduced the time slow down rate so it wasn't OP like in FO3.
frajaq, Rapid Reload was a perk in FONV, and IMO it was a must have for any non melee/unarmed character.
The video suggests that enemies will be able to stalk you and sneak attack you. I think it would be best to have them be able to get sneak attack criticals, too.
frajaq, Rapid Reload was a perk in FONV, and IMO it was a must have for any non melee/unarmed character.
The video suggests that enemies will be able to stalk you and sneak attack you. I think it would be best to have them be able to get sneak attack criticals, too.
Last edited:
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
1. I know, but close-combat clusterfuck is pretty much the only time the game achieves any kind of difficulty as the twitchy enemies amass damage upon damage on the player that using VATS trivializes it.
2. I know.
3. I already said that.
I would think that sneak in combination with ranged attacks and dump AI will be again one of the most overpowered stats in the game.
Last edited by a moderator:
TransgenderVaultDeweller
"Fallout 4 adds to the lore"
You know what also was a dumb or pointless perk. That just ruined consitiency? Fallout, Good, Neutral, Or Evil. They changed everything on a fly, At a particular level.
So, Hey. Blew up Megaton and and infected the water supply? Well, Fuck it just reset your Karma.
I think with these new perks we might either be seeing really useful ones. Like, Timing shots for perfection and really useless skills like Sandman.
AgentBJ09
Vault Dweller
Hmm. Looks like AGI is pretty much what I figured it would be. Still can't tell if Sneak Criticals are Perk-locked, though.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Okay maybe not a stat dump but using stealth in a Bethesda game makes the braindead console AI a joke when you can shoot their eye sockets while they say "Must of been my imagination" then proceed to scratch their asses like nothing happened.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Yay. Another possible dump stat. From one of the most useful stats to a near dump.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Completely unrelated and offtopic but whatever, here's some post out of Bethforums dissing NMA:
" Just avoid NoMutantsAllowed, those guys just hate everything."
"Oh man, I made the mistake of visiting those forums. So many armchair critics, developers, artists, storytellers, etc. spouting off walls of text about how Bethesda ruined their lives, etc. This is some good advice right here my friend."
"We should invade NMA and start spewing positivity. "
"they would just ban everyone and go back being super old very angry crusty fans that want fallout 2 "madden" edition games."
"Ill never understand how there can be hate sites for videogames. NMA proves that for everything good in this world, there are people who will latch onto something and hate it. Im just glad that it's obsessive hate towards a video game and not something important that could actually hurt people."
"What? You think banning any and all discussion of that game which must not be named is a bit much? Nonsense! But seriously, NMA is great. As soon as you find out someone posts there you know you've struck a comedy gold mine. "
Anyway, as to Fallout 4's SPECIAL system I want to play a little devil's advocate; If the perks are now completely dictated by your SPECIAL score shouldn't the viability of the stat also be judged by its selection of perks? Like, yes, the stats on their own are shite. But what the stats affect in terms of perks might make each of them not a dumpstat as in order to get to the good stuff you need to invest points into a stat. A dumpstat is a stat that is useless and so you choose not to allocate 'any' points into it for 'any' character you create because other stats are far more viable choices. Now if perks are an extension of the stats then shouldn't they be taken into consideration as well? I mean, they removed skills and changed them into perks, they altered how the stat system works and how it can be affected post-character creation. So shouldn't we re-evaluate what perks actually mean? Perks used to be a bonus to your character, something you didn't get a whole lot of and which unlocked unique things not available from the skills or stats. But considering that skills are gone and stats are simplified and perks are now completely reliant on your overall stat-score, aren't perks no longer perks, but rather an extension of the stats?
If we look at the perk list as a perk list then yes, each stat is pretty much a dumpstat. But if we look at the perk list as an extension of the stats, is any of the stats a dumpstat? A game with a dumpstat can usually be played without it because what it affects is so miniscule that it isn't worth bothering about. If Fallout 4 can be played without any of the stats and perks then yes, they are all dumpstats as none of them impact anything meaningful for you to be able to play the game from start to finish. But... If you choose to use Console Commands or whatever to limit your character so you never get any SPECIAL above 1 and never get any perk, can the game still be played and be enjoyable (on its own merits, obviously)? Cause if not, then some of the stats ain't dumpstats as they are important to some degree.
They've made stats and perks very symbiotic to one another, if we are to criticize either, shouldn't we also consider the other? And shouldn't either be taken into consideration when discussing them?
" Just avoid NoMutantsAllowed, those guys just hate everything."
"Oh man, I made the mistake of visiting those forums. So many armchair critics, developers, artists, storytellers, etc. spouting off walls of text about how Bethesda ruined their lives, etc. This is some good advice right here my friend."
"We should invade NMA and start spewing positivity. "
"they would just ban everyone and go back being super old very angry crusty fans that want fallout 2 "madden" edition games."
"Ill never understand how there can be hate sites for videogames. NMA proves that for everything good in this world, there are people who will latch onto something and hate it. Im just glad that it's obsessive hate towards a video game and not something important that could actually hurt people."
"What? You think banning any and all discussion of that game which must not be named is a bit much? Nonsense! But seriously, NMA is great. As soon as you find out someone posts there you know you've struck a comedy gold mine. "
Anyway, as to Fallout 4's SPECIAL system I want to play a little devil's advocate; If the perks are now completely dictated by your SPECIAL score shouldn't the viability of the stat also be judged by its selection of perks? Like, yes, the stats on their own are shite. But what the stats affect in terms of perks might make each of them not a dumpstat as in order to get to the good stuff you need to invest points into a stat. A dumpstat is a stat that is useless and so you choose not to allocate 'any' points into it for 'any' character you create because other stats are far more viable choices. Now if perks are an extension of the stats then shouldn't they be taken into consideration as well? I mean, they removed skills and changed them into perks, they altered how the stat system works and how it can be affected post-character creation. So shouldn't we re-evaluate what perks actually mean? Perks used to be a bonus to your character, something you didn't get a whole lot of and which unlocked unique things not available from the skills or stats. But considering that skills are gone and stats are simplified and perks are now completely reliant on your overall stat-score, aren't perks no longer perks, but rather an extension of the stats?
If we look at the perk list as a perk list then yes, each stat is pretty much a dumpstat. But if we look at the perk list as an extension of the stats, is any of the stats a dumpstat? A game with a dumpstat can usually be played without it because what it affects is so miniscule that it isn't worth bothering about. If Fallout 4 can be played without any of the stats and perks then yes, they are all dumpstats as none of them impact anything meaningful for you to be able to play the game from start to finish. But... If you choose to use Console Commands or whatever to limit your character so you never get any SPECIAL above 1 and never get any perk, can the game still be played and be enjoyable (on its own merits, obviously)? Cause if not, then some of the stats ain't dumpstats as they are important to some degree.
They've made stats and perks very symbiotic to one another, if we are to criticize either, shouldn't we also consider the other? And shouldn't either be taken into consideration when discussing them?
Last edited:
frajaq
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Woah what is this, a reasonable thought that isn't lashing out at Bethesda just for the sake of it???
PossibleCabbage
Vault 22 Survivor
Yeah, I think that how perks are set up, there aren't really "dump stats" so much as "level 1 dump stats". If there's a high level perk you want early in the game (the high level luck ones seem strong, for example) you just need to figure out what stats you can lower enough to get that 10 in the one you want. Since there are going to be perks in each stat that you're probably going to want (I mean the Agility 10 perk does look pretty good), you'll end up raising all your dump stats so you can get the perks you want anyway.
Plus to get that 10 to start with a 3/3/3/3/3/3/10 array does use up all of your 28 points and doesn't really hurt you that much.
The notion of a "dump stat" just doesn't make that much sense when you can just raise your stats easily.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
I would consider it a dump stat for sure if only one perk is useful and you need to raise it all the way to 10 to take it. Another example would be if only 2 were tied to the SPECIAL you picked but the rest were arbitrary to that SPECIAL.
Well of course dump stats can be subjective depending on the person but we'll have to wait and see what all the perks are but I have a feeling that most are arbitrary to the SPECIAL it's placed in like crafting weapons under Strength
Remember in The Producers when Franz(the Nazi) gets on stage and says "You shut up! You are the audience! I am the author! I OUTRANK you!" these guys in that situation would shut up.