Alternative E.P.A./Abbey Maps + other ideas and other maps

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Ravager, May 9, 2010.

  1. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    If there was always room for improvements the editing would never stop. I want to make a proper, well made original map yet no one so far said anything regarding the hungry humans.

    Ah thank you sir killap. I was hoping you could help me out with some scripting. The maps are nearly finished and I was wondering if you could at least take a look at the work I have done so far. It is after all thanks to you that I'm making and re-making them.

    Perhaps you could be the expert I'm looking for. The E.P.A. had no visitors since about 164 years am I correct? Now. After such a long period of time all the humans in the petting zoo that where trapped there would be certainly dead. So would it be possible if the experiment victims where infected with the F.E.V. thus becoming ghouls similar to Harold? Hungry, cannibalistic ghouls who are either still stuck in the cages or managed to escape and ate all or almost all of the other animals? After all ghouls do live a long, long time.

    I really don't see any more decent possibilities here. Perhaps some genetically engineered mutants, but without any kinds of animal DNA since animals have short lifespans and it would probably impossible for them to breed. What are your thoughts mr. killap?

    Btw do you think you could script the holograms to give you tours in certain places?

    Also since this is a new page I wanted to show the first concept of the Abbey main building.

    (coming later)

    Love it? Hate it? tell me what you think.
  2. Ravager69

    Ravager69 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 21, 2007
    Just for the record, I am not defending or attacking anyone here. I say let Pixote and Ravager (who so stole my nick BTW) discuss it via PM and let's just forget about the whole stuff.

    Anyway, even though I like most of Pixote's art in RP 2.0, I DO have to say some things are out of place. For example the green goo pouring out of the crashed Vertibird - it is not only redundant, but it also doesn't make sense.

    What I would like is to Pixote revise his maps and just cut out some of the more....exotic stuff he put in (like the forementioned goo) and try to keep it more in spirit of the previous games.

    Also, Abbey\EPA maps are pretty chaotic if you ask me, I always found them a bit displaced and hard to navigate.

    BTW Ravager, a bit less hostility in your critique and you'll get along just fine with other people.
  3. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    I don't post much, but when I registered it wasn't taken so how could I have stolen it?

    Good to see someone who's thinking like me. Personally I love Pixote's custom made scenery yet I hate the chaotic and senseless placing of some things with a passion.

    Just leave it to me. I'll re do those maps in such a way God himself would be proud to play this game! Or live at the Abbey at least.

    Don't we all find them that way?

    I know I know, although I'm getting very stressed each day. Cursed cancer took out me some of my insides on it's way out of my body.
  4. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

    Jul 28, 2006
    I was talking about improving your behavior (you said something like: "I'm an ass sometimes but that's how I am"), not your mod. A good person can become an even better person. :wink:
  5. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    I'm going threw a lot ok? Besides I said I was sorry alright?

    So anyway would you help me out and give some opinions so I can finish level Green today?
  6. sydney_roo

    sydney_roo Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 24, 2008
    When I first read this
    I was like

    But am sure glad the hatches are buried and you got past this BS to make this great game even better. This seems really promising. And now that you have killap's blessing all should be good.
  7. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    So what do you think should be there after 164 years? It's hard to imagine normal humans living there. Even if their hungry cannibals. I'm still trying to figure out how to do everything.
  8. sydney_roo

    sydney_roo Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 24, 2008
    I actually like this idea
    If you could pull it off with some help from the scripters. I would imagine this fight to be on the brink of death yet well rewarding afterwards. Or maybe add some option to kill them all with something when still in the cages (that of course would bring less experience points but would be much easier way of handling this sticky situation.)
  9. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Alas, I'm running out of modding steam these days. If only all these enthusiastic modders (you, Endocore, etc) were here 5 years ago when I started. I do hope your vision sees reality.
  10. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    Thank you. If someone helps out it will be really great! Just imagine it. Your taking a tour with the Director of Public Relations (she opens the doors for you and guides you further threw the zoo, talking about each specimen) and suddenly a ghoul notices you. He attacks the force field, gets fried (I'm making a lot of cages) then something goes wrong and the lights go out along with the force fields from the other cages that where holding other ghouls and they all shut down completely, shortly after that the ghouls walk out and the fighting start. They all just charge at you from all sides trying to eat you alive.

    Also I want to come to a certain decision so tell me how doe it sound: The ghouls will be volunteers who where working at the E.P.A. as test subjects. All of them where infected with certain types of the F.E.V. and where tested on. Some where irradiated (glowing ghouls), some where exposed to deadly chemicals. Their all tough and strong as hell + their desperate and hungry.

    I might also think of a different way to eliminate the ghouls other then facing them personally.

    Well I'm sure it will although I was wondering if you'd download my map when it's finished from the visual side?

    It won't need much to achieve some measure of perfection and I can already say that my progress is pretty fast. I already have 1 map (epax) fully completed. Now epamain is 90% done and The Doctor's map is about 60% done at the moment.

    I don't think there will be any problems with the other maps. Just adding a bit of this and that. I'll also do some removing, but those are just really minor things like Ravager69 mentioned.
  11. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 14, 2009
    It’s already been addressed in the next release of RP.

    These issues stem back to the initial release of the RP, but I always thought favorably of the Abbey, and Tribal maps, but I did recognize that the EPA would be the most difficult of the new locations to finish successfully. Though the underground areas are difficult to navigate (compared to most of the original Fallout), they seemed to be designed fairly logically, but the EPA was always going to be an ambitious area for Fallout 2, and that’s why Black Isle probably dropped it. Remember it’s larger than the Enclave, and that’s the largest area in the game.

    I have accepted the apology and moved on. This is Ravager thread and he wants some assistance in working out some of the questionable elements regarding the map design in RP.

    Unfortunately some of those problems were aspects of the original design brief in the Fallout Bible, but the lack of art also exacerbates the problem. If people have been trapped for 150+ years the PC would only find skeletal remains, but the art doesn’t exist.

    Community input is critical to improving the maps, that’s something I never had access to until the RP maps were released, because I didn’t have proper access to the internet until earlier this year.

    I’m running out of steam after only 2 years of Fallout modding…working on 165 maps…300 elevations, it’s very draining, and all you are trying to do is make the gaming experience a little more enjoyable for the fans. So after RP is finished I’ll pass the baton to someone else and occasionally help people here and there. I’ve made my contribution to Fallout and hopefully it’s been a positive one.
  12. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Mar 6, 2005
    Alright, I've told you this before, but I'll go over it again.

    Here's the (semi)official story to the "hungry humans" in the petting zoo.

    They were the failed results of human/animal gene splicing experiments to create a super soldier. This is inspired by the wonky 50's era pulp Science! that is an essential part of Fallout. Is it realistic? Certainly not. But we weren't shooting for realism, we were shooting for Fallout.

    How did they survive for so long? Their care-taking was done by automated robots. Like the dinosaurs in Jurassic park, they somehow managed to find a way to reproduce ("Life will find a way."), which is why they're still around. You're actually seeing the great-great-etc.-grandchildren of the original freaks that were there when the bombs fell. (If you don't care for that explanation, then how about they're super long-lived due to their freakish nature? Not possible you say? To that, I say, Science!)

    So, you may ask, if they've been breeding, then why aren't the cages overflowing with them? Simple. Because once their automated feeding systems broke down (maybe it simply ran out of food, maybe it was a mechanical failure--it doesn't matter), they had to result to cannibalism to stay alive, and thus their numbers have dwindled.

    Then along comes the Chosen One to discover the cages of hideously deformed freak cannibals that are ravenous with hunger.

    And that's their story. If you don't like it, then by all means, invent your own.
  13. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    You are forgetting a lot of things Dravean.

    I already mentioned that humans with different types of animal DNA would be pretty much unable to breed. After all lizards can’t breed with cats or eagles or dogs and so one and so one. Any kind of change in the human DNA would cause extreme reproduction problems among such a small group. So is it official or semi official? No… no offense, but I find it extremely flawed. Especially that “virus-laden mutant fruit flies” where mentioned in the document. Which indicates that some batch of the F.E.V. must have been tested at the E.P.A.

    The next thing you’re forgetting is the mutant F.E.V. which was released in to the atmosphere. The airborne virus spread among the survivors and mutated them – that’s why most of the Super Mutants which where not prime normals became just big, strong and dumb after getting dipped in the VATS. This mutated airborne batch “had” to come from somewhere. Perhaps from the E.P.A., perhaps not, but they do have a lot of info about the virus at that facility.

    Since there must have been other sources where the F.E.V. was being developed, tested or worked on a lot of things indicate that it was also present at the E.P.A.

    That would perfectly explain why there are “hungry humans” at the petting zoo. I think the original creator called them that way because he was thinking of hungry humans as “zombies”. Brain and flesh eating hungry humans who aren’t fully human, but still somewhat human.

    Does that or does that not make perfect sense?

    (New screenshots coming soon)


  14. MIB88

    MIB88 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 22, 2005
    Yes, in the real world this is true. However, this is not true in the universe of Fallout, Science!, and pulp sc-fi. In this context, the idea of such non-sterile hybrids is not flawed.

    As for the FEV, there is no reason to discount the idea that some version may not have existed at the EPA. Perfectly acceptable, I think. Perhaps a different or earlier strain of the virus?

    (Also, check your inbox. I sent you a PM a few days ago.)
  15. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    When did pulp fiction sci-fi/science come up with humans with animal DNA breeding? Wasn't it only referring to well radiation mostly? As a source of mutations. Even in the world of Fallout different species can't can't procreate - like scorpion/mantis I think...??????

    Yes I was thinking of the same thing. Something at the lines of:

    February 23, 2075
    Today we have received 11 containers with samples of batch 10-010b of the panimmunity virion from our colleagues at West Tek. It shall be tested within the next 5 days once we secure the new laboratory on level green. Doctor Ferguson has been very worried some of the tourists might come in contact with the P.V.P. and I myself don't want want to clean the mess after another "incident".

    It should fit pretty well with Fallout's plot.

    (I will in about a few seconds)
  16. MIB88

    MIB88 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 22, 2005
    Yes, but scorpions do not naturally seek out mantises on their own in which to make a hybrid. The idea of animal/human experimentation is not new. Think Island of Dr. Moreau, written at the end of the 19th century (although, the testing there was to turn animals into humans). But, there are lots of other sci-fi books since then (and not necessarily new) that cover genetic experiments merging animals with humans. Check the term parahuman. My own personal experience with such stories don't go past the 1980's, though, with only the comic book Dreadstar and the book Chapterhouse: Dune readily coming to mind. I also saw a show on either the Discovery Channel or the History Channel a couple of weeks ago talking about a scientist working in the late 1940's or early 1950's in Russia who was working on human/ape hybrids.
  17. Ravager

    Ravager Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 18, 2008
    I've checked this stuff and all the experiments resulted in some epic failing. Just a lot of inseminations without any results.

    All of this dates back to the 18th and the very start of the 19th century.

    The Island of Dr. Moreau was published in 1896 and the experiments of that Russian started around 1910.

    So where talking about much older science then the one from the 1960's and 70's + like I mentioned - all that science didn't work out from the very start.

    Even if in the world of Fallout it would be possible to create such creatures then they would have to be created as a certain species - like human/reptilian hybrids with almost the same type of DNA in order to procreate. Because without procreation you'd only see skeletons in the cages. Then this would actually make sense that hybrids with similar DNA can breed with each other, but not for example a human/tiger hybrid with a human/horse or human/snake hybrid. If that was possible in the Fallout universe I guess we would see some weird mutant scorpion/roach hybrids long ago.
  18. MIB88

    MIB88 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 22, 2005
    That's why I said:
    That's what I was referring to. Did it say somewhere that each experiment was one of a kind? Sure the numbers might be small, leading to a lot of inbreeding, but, still not impossible for this game. And just because the creatures aren't exactly alike doesn't mean they couldn't reproduce (again, in the pulp sci-fi setting). For example, I finished reading a Canticle for Liebowitz a few months ago, where the author speaks of those with different afflictions (the Misborn, with mutations as a result of massive radiation) that continued to live and reproduce amongst others with different mutations. I only point this stuff out because I think you may be making this harder than it needs to be.

    However, it's your mod. Use whatever level of realism you want. I don't suppose you will be removing the plasma pistols, radaway, mega-power fists, and everything else found to be scientifically impossible?

    Edit: My point is that there could still be living specimens around rather than skeletons, and they don't have to be over 200 years old (or even be some strange-looking human/animal hybrid).
  19. Ravager69

    Ravager69 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 21, 2007
    Uh....the airborne FEV comes from the Glow. It's even stated in the game, I think the computer on the last level tells you that.

    Anyway, I'm all for keeping the Science! feel of Fallout, but remember that dumb ideas remain dumb, even if they fit the setting.

    So no, no hungry mutated animal-humans living for 200+ years in a basement of an old research facility. I mean wtf? Fallout 1 had none of such bullshit. Mutants, giant animals, yeah, but it was all in good taste, where Fallout 2 started rolling dpwn the stupid for the lulz bullshit, just like Fallout 3 did.

    I'd keep clear of adding more silly content to the game, it already has too much. Leave a couple of ghouls inside, or simply kill them shortly before the PC arrives, leaving him without info about the research, so he can only speculate.
  20. Skynet

    Skynet Mildly Dipped

    Jun 5, 2003
    Although i don't see any (major) issues with Abbey, i am interested to see your version of it.