Alternative E.P.A./Abbey Maps + other ideas and other maps

[Ravager]

There's always room for improvement, if that's the way you are than criticize yourself and change for the better. C'mon, make me proud just like my bro' Pixote did right now.

If there was always room for improvements the editing would never stop. I want to make a proper, well made original map yet no one so far said anything regarding the hungry humans.

I too wish you the best of luck with your modding endeavors, Ravager.

Ah thank you sir killap. I was hoping you could help me out with some scripting. The maps are nearly finished and I was wondering if you could at least take a look at the work I have done so far. It is after all thanks to you that I'm making and re-making them.

Perhaps you could be the expert I'm looking for. The E.P.A. had no visitors since about 164 years am I correct? Now. After such a long period of time all the humans in the petting zoo that where trapped there would be certainly dead. So would it be possible if the experiment victims where infected with the F.E.V. thus becoming ghouls similar to Harold? Hungry, cannibalistic ghouls who are either still stuck in the cages or managed to escape and ate all or almost all of the other animals? After all ghouls do live a long, long time.

I really don't see any more decent possibilities here. Perhaps some genetically engineered mutants, but without any kinds of animal DNA since animals have short lifespans and it would probably impossible for them to breed. What are your thoughts mr. killap?

Btw do you think you could script the holograms to give you tours in certain places?

Also since this is a new page I wanted to show the first concept of the Abbey main building.

(coming later)

Love it? Hate it? tell me what you think.

 

[Ravager69]

Just for the record, I am not defending or attacking anyone here. I say let Pixote and Ravager (who so stole my nick BTW) discuss it via PM and let's just forget about the whole stuff.

Anyway, even though I like most of Pixote's art in RP 2.0, I DO have to say some things are out of place. For example the green goo pouring out of the crashed Vertibird - it is not only redundant, but it also doesn't make sense.

What I would like is to Pixote revise his maps and just cut out some of the more....exotic stuff he put in (like the forementioned goo) and try to keep it more in spirit of the previous games.

Also, Abbey\EPA maps are pretty chaotic if you ask me, I always found them a bit displaced and hard to navigate.

BTW Ravager, a bit less hostility in your critique and you'll get along just fine with other people.

 

[Ravager]

Just for the record, I am not defending or attacking anyone here. I say let Pixote and Ravager (who so stole my nick BTW) discuss it via PM and let's just forget about the whole stuff.

I don't post much, but when I registered it wasn't taken so how could I have stolen it?

Anyway, even though I like most of Pixote's art in RP 2.0, I DO have to say some things are out of place. For example the green goo pouring out of the crashed Vertibird - it is not only redundant, but it also doesn't make sense.

Good to see someone who's thinking like me. Personally I love Pixote's custom made scenery yet I hate the chaotic and senseless placing of some things with a passion.

What I would like is to Pixote revise his maps and just cut out some of the more....exotic stuff he put in (like the forementioned goo) and try to keep it more in spirit of the previous games.

Just leave it to me. I'll re do those maps in such a way God himself would be proud to play this game! Or live at the Abbey at least.

Also, Abbey\EPA maps are pretty chaotic if you ask me, I always found them a bit displaced and hard to navigate.

Don't we all find them that way?

BTW Ravager, a bit less hostility in your critique and you'll get along just fine with other people.

I know I know, although I'm getting very stressed each day. Cursed cancer took out me some of my insides on it's way out of my body.

 

[Makenshi]

There's always room for improvement, if that's the way you are than criticize yourself and change for the better.

If there was always room for improvements the editing would never stop

I was talking about improving your behavior (you said something like: "I'm an ass sometimes but that's how I am"), not your mod. A good person can become an even better person.

 

[Ravager]

I was talking about improving your behavior (you said: "I'm an ass sometimes but that's how I am"), not your mod. A good person can become an even better person.

I'm going threw a lot ok? Besides I said I was sorry alright?

So anyway would you help me out and give some opinions so I can finish level Green today?

 

[sydney_roo]

When I first read this

My alternative maps are meant to make the areas both more realistic and original while still including the things that where cut before the game was released. Currently we see a lot of strange stuff in most of the new maps. A lot of things are craptastic and make no sense like - pipes placed on a dead robots or gigantic Wanamingo’s or genetically modified humans with animal DNA who survived in a cage and managed to live for a very long time (as you know most animals live much shorter lives then humans and with such differences in their DNA like: bird, cat, lizard, dog – procreation would probably be impossible, not to mention that most of the scientists would probably sterilize those abominations right away).

I was like

But am sure glad the hatches are buried and you got past this BS to make this great game even better. This seems really promising. And now that you have killap's blessing all should be good.

 

[Ravager]

I was like

So what do you think should be there after 164 years? It's hard to imagine normal humans living there. Even if their hungry cannibals. I'm still trying to figure out how to do everything.

 

[sydney_roo]

I actually like this idea

b. During your visit at the petting zoo one of the ghouls would attack the force field emitter and get friend on the spot, yet at the same time the field would start malfunctioning and suddenly stop working completely thus allowing the other ghouls to attack the player and try to eat him alive (this will be hard or impossible since it would need scripting and I really can’t do that stuff, so if someone could do this for me I’d really appreciate it).

If you could pull it off with some help from the scripters. I would imagine this fight to be on the brink of death yet well rewarding afterwards. Or maybe add some option to kill them all with something when still in the cages (that of course would bring less experience points but would be much easier way of handling this sticky situation.)

 

[killap]

Ah thank you sir killap. I was hoping you could help me out with some scripting. The maps are nearly finished and I was wondering if you could at least take a look at the work I have done so far. It is after all thanks to you that I'm making and re-making them.

Alas, I'm running out of modding steam these days. If only all these enthusiastic modders (you, Endocore, etc) were here 5 years ago when I started. I do hope your vision sees reality.

 

[Ravager]

I actually like this idea
If you could pull it off with some help from the scripters. I would imagine this fight to be on the brink of death yet well rewarding afterwards. Or maybe add some option to kill them all with something when still in the cages (that of course would bring less experience points but would be much easier way of handling this sticky situation.)

Thank you. If someone helps out it will be really great! Just imagine it. Your taking a tour with the Director of Public Relations (she opens the doors for you and guides you further threw the zoo, talking about each specimen) and suddenly a ghoul notices you. He attacks the force field, gets fried (I'm making a lot of cages) then something goes wrong and the lights go out along with the force fields from the other cages that where holding other ghouls and they all shut down completely, shortly after that the ghouls walk out and the fighting start. They all just charge at you from all sides trying to eat you alive.

Also I want to come to a certain decision so tell me how doe it sound: The ghouls will be volunteers who where working at the E.P.A. as test subjects. All of them where infected with certain types of the F.E.V. and where tested on. Some where irradiated (glowing ghouls), some where exposed to deadly chemicals. Their all tough and strong as hell + their desperate and hungry.

I might also think of a different way to eliminate the ghouls other then facing them personally.

Alas, I'm running out of modding steam these days. If only all these enthusiastic modders (you, Endocore, etc) were here 5 years ago when I started. I do hope your vision sees reality.

Well I'm sure it will although I was wondering if you'd download my map when it's finished from the visual side?

It won't need much to achieve some measure of perfection and I can already say that my progress is pretty fast. I already have 1 map (epax) fully completed. Now epamain is 90% done and The Doctor's map is about 60% done at the moment.

I don't think there will be any problems with the other maps. Just adding a bit of this and that. I'll also do some removing, but those are just really minor things like Ravager69 mentioned.

 

[.Pixote.]

Anyway, even though I like most of Pixote's art in RP 2.0, I DO have to say some things are out of place. For example the green goo pouring out of the crashed Vertibird - it is not only redundant, but it also doesn't make sense.

It’s already been addressed in the next release of RP.

Also, Abbey\EPA maps are pretty chaotic if you ask me, I always found them a bit displaced and hard to navigate.

These issues stem back to the initial release of the RP, but I always thought favorably of the Abbey, and Tribal maps, but I did recognize that the EPA would be the most difficult of the new locations to finish successfully. Though the underground areas are difficult to navigate (compared to most of the original Fallout), they seemed to be designed fairly logically, but the EPA was always going to be an ambitious area for Fallout 2, and that’s why Black Isle probably dropped it. Remember it’s larger than the Enclave, and that’s the largest area in the game.

BTW Ravager, a bit less hostility in your critique and you'll get along just fine with other people.

I have accepted the apology and moved on. This is Ravager thread and he wants some assistance in working out some of the questionable elements regarding the map design in RP.

So what do you think should be there after 164 years? It's hard to imagine normal humans living there. Even if their hungry cannibals. I'm still trying to figure out how to do everything.

Unfortunately some of those problems were aspects of the original design brief in the Fallout Bible, but the lack of art also exacerbates the problem. If people have been trapped for 150+ years the PC would only find skeletal remains, but the art doesn’t exist.

Community input is critical to improving the maps, that’s something I never had access to until the RP maps were released, because I didn’t have proper access to the internet until earlier this year.

Alas, I'm running out of modding steam these days. If only all these enthusiastic modders (you, Endocore, etc) were here 5 years ago when I started. I do hope your vision sees reality.

I’m running out of steam after only 2 years of Fallout modding…working on 165 maps…300 elevations, it’s very draining, and all you are trying to do is make the gaming experience a little more enjoyable for the fans. So after RP is finished I’ll pass the baton to someone else and occasionally help people here and there. I’ve made my contribution to Fallout and hopefully it’s been a positive one.

 

[Dravean]

Alright, I've told you this before, but I'll go over it again.

Here's the (semi)official story to the "hungry humans" in the petting zoo.

They were the failed results of human/animal gene splicing experiments to create a super soldier. This is inspired by the wonky 50's era pulp Science! that is an essential part of Fallout. Is it realistic? Certainly not. But we weren't shooting for realism, we were shooting for Fallout.

How did they survive for so long? Their care-taking was done by automated robots. Like the dinosaurs in Jurassic park, they somehow managed to find a way to reproduce ("Life will find a way."), which is why they're still around. You're actually seeing the great-great-etc.-grandchildren of the original freaks that were there when the bombs fell. (If you don't care for that explanation, then how about they're super long-lived due to their freakish nature? Not possible you say? To that, I say, Science!)

So, you may ask, if they've been breeding, then why aren't the cages overflowing with them? Simple. Because once their automated feeding systems broke down (maybe it simply ran out of food, maybe it was a mechanical failure--it doesn't matter), they had to result to cannibalism to stay alive, and thus their numbers have dwindled.

Then along comes the Chosen One to discover the cages of hideously deformed freak cannibals that are ravenous with hunger.

And that's their story. If you don't like it, then by all means, invent your own.

 

[Ravager]

You are forgetting a lot of things Dravean.

I already mentioned that humans with different types of animal DNA would be pretty much unable to breed. After all lizards can’t breed with cats or eagles or dogs and so one and so one. Any kind of change in the human DNA would cause extreme reproduction problems among such a small group. So is it official or semi official? No… no offense, but I find it extremely flawed. Especially that “virus-laden mutant fruit flies” where mentioned in the document. Which indicates that some batch of the F.E.V. must have been tested at the E.P.A.

The next thing you’re forgetting is the mutant F.E.V. which was released in to the atmosphere. The airborne virus spread among the survivors and mutated them – that’s why most of the Super Mutants which where not prime normals became just big, strong and dumb after getting dipped in the VATS. This mutated airborne batch “had” to come from somewhere. Perhaps from the E.P.A., perhaps not, but they do have a lot of info about the virus at that facility.

Since there must have been other sources where the F.E.V. was being developed, tested or worked on a lot of things indicate that it was also present at the E.P.A.

That would perfectly explain why there are “hungry humans” at the petting zoo. I think the original creator called them that way because he was thinking of hungry humans as “zombies”. Brain and flesh eating hungry humans who aren’t fully human, but still somewhat human.

Does that or does that not make perfect sense?

(New screenshots coming soon)

Edit:

 

[MIB88]

...I already mentioned that humans with different types of animal DNA would be pretty much unable to breed...

Yes, in the real world this is true. However, this is not true in the universe of Fallout, Science!, and pulp sc-fi. In this context, the idea of such non-sterile hybrids is not flawed.

As for the FEV, there is no reason to discount the idea that some version may not have existed at the EPA. Perfectly acceptable, I think. Perhaps a different or earlier strain of the virus?

(Also, check your inbox. I sent you a PM a few days ago.)

 

[Ravager]

Yes, in the real world this is true. However, this is not true in the universe of Fallout, Science!, and pulp sc-fi. In this context, the idea of such non-sterile hybrids is not flawed.

As for the FEV, there is no reason to discount the idea that some version may not have existed at the EPA. Perfectly acceptable, I think. Perhaps a different or earlier strain of the virus?

(Also, check your inbox. I sent you a PM a few days ago.)

When did pulp fiction sci-fi/science come up with humans with animal DNA breeding? Wasn't it only referring to well radiation mostly? As a source of mutations. Even in the world of Fallout different species can't can't procreate - like scorpion/mantis I think...??????

Yes I was thinking of the same thing. Something at the lines of:

February 23, 2075
Today we have received 11 containers with samples of batch 10-010b of the panimmunity virion from our colleagues at West Tek. It shall be tested within the next 5 days once we secure the new laboratory on level green. Doctor Ferguson has been very worried some of the tourists might come in contact with the P.V.P. and I myself don't want want to clean the mess after another "incident".

It should fit pretty well with Fallout's plot.

(I will in about a few seconds)

 

[MIB88]

When did pulp fiction sci-fi/science come up with humans with animal DNA breeding? Wasn't it only referring to well radiation mostly? As a source of mutations. Even in the world of Fallout different species can't can't procreate - like scorpion/mantis I think...??????

Yes, but scorpions do not naturally seek out mantises on their own in which to make a hybrid. The idea of animal/human experimentation is not new. Think Island of Dr. Moreau, written at the end of the 19th century (although, the testing there was to turn animals into humans). But, there are lots of other sci-fi books since then (and not necessarily new) that cover genetic experiments merging animals with humans. Check the term parahuman. My own personal experience with such stories don't go past the 1980's, though, with only the comic book Dreadstar and the book Chapterhouse: Dune readily coming to mind. I also saw a show on either the Discovery Channel or the History Channel a couple of weeks ago talking about a scientist working in the late 1940's or early 1950's in Russia who was working on human/ape hybrids.

 

[Ravager]

I've checked this stuff and all the experiments resulted in some epic failing. Just a lot of inseminations without any results.

All of this dates back to the 18th and the very start of the 19th century.

The Island of Dr. Moreau was published in 1896 and the experiments of that Russian started around 1910.

So where talking about much older science then the one from the 1960's and 70's + like I mentioned - all that science didn't work out from the very start.

Even if in the world of Fallout it would be possible to create such creatures then they would have to be created as a certain species - like human/reptilian hybrids with almost the same type of DNA in order to procreate. Because without procreation you'd only see skeletons in the cages. Then this would actually make sense that hybrids with similar DNA can breed with each other, but not for example a human/tiger hybrid with a human/horse or human/snake hybrid. If that was possible in the Fallout universe I guess we would see some weird mutant scorpion/roach hybrids long ago.

 

[MIB88]

I've checked this stuff and all the experiments resulted in some epic failing. Just a lot of inseminations without any results....

So where talking about much older science then the one from the 1960's and 70's + like I mentioned - all that science didn't work out from the very start.

That's why I said:

Yes, in the real world this is true. However, this is not true in the universe of Fallout, Science!, and pulp sc-fi.

Even if in the world of Fallout it would be possible to create such creatures then they would have to be created as a certain species ....

That's what I was referring to. Did it say somewhere that each experiment was one of a kind? Sure the numbers might be small, leading to a lot of inbreeding, but, still not impossible for this game. And just because the creatures aren't exactly alike doesn't mean they couldn't reproduce (again, in the pulp sci-fi setting). For example, I finished reading a Canticle for Liebowitz a few months ago, where the author speaks of those with different afflictions (the Misborn, with mutations as a result of massive radiation) that continued to live and reproduce amongst others with different mutations. I only point this stuff out because I think you may be making this harder than it needs to be.

However, it's your mod. Use whatever level of realism you want. I don't suppose you will be removing the plasma pistols, radaway, mega-power fists, and everything else found to be scientifically impossible?

Edit: My point is that there could still be living specimens around rather than skeletons, and they don't have to be over 200 years old (or even be some strange-looking human/animal hybrid).

 

[Ravager69]

Uh....the airborne FEV comes from the Glow. It's even stated in the game, I think the computer on the last level tells you that.


Anyway, I'm all for keeping the Science! feel of Fallout, but remember that dumb ideas remain dumb, even if they fit the setting.

So no, no hungry mutated animal-humans living for 200+ years in a basement of an old research facility. I mean wtf? Fallout 1 had none of such bullshit. Mutants, giant animals, yeah, but it was all in good taste, where Fallout 2 started rolling dpwn the stupid for the lulz bullshit, just like Fallout 3 did.

I'd keep clear of adding more silly content to the game, it already has too much. Leave a couple of ghouls inside, or simply kill them shortly before the PC arrives, leaving him without info about the research, so he can only speculate.

 

[Skynet]

Although i don't see any (major) issues with Abbey, i am interested to see your version of it.