Alternative Perspective

Roshambo said:
Yeah, and Ultima 8 would have drawn the console Action crowd into the Ultima franchise.

That foolish marketing wet dream didn't quite work either then, Corky.
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Uh.. that'd be Ultima 9, not 8.

Ultima 8 was a big break with all the Ultima traditions, throwing you into this wasted world where none of your friends could help you and where even magic worked in a different way. Very morbid. My favorite Ultima in fact.

But I'm guessing you're referring to Ultima 9 and its almost-but-not-quite first person perspective.


BTW, to that other guy, how can guns work better in FPS? You must not have used targetted shots a lot? I wonder how that could possibly done well in FPS and real-time combat? I don't see a good way myself.
 
Oh, and about targeted shots, there was one thing that didn't make sense. Shooting in the eyes was either hit the eyes or miss completly. Isn't it likely that a shot in the eyes by a somewhat experienced guy will end up in the head instead?
So I think eyes should be removed as a target, and hitting the eyes would be a critical hit of shooting in the head.
 
Lumpy said:
Oh, and about targeted shots, there was one thing that didn't make sense. Shooting in the eyes was either hit the eyes or miss completly. Isn't it likely that a shot in the eyes by a somewhat experienced guy will end up in the head instead?
So I think eyes should be removed as a target, and hitting the eyes would be a critical hit of shooting in the head.
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No. There is first a roll whether or not the bullet hits the person at all when the marksman aims at the eyes, and then a roll to see whether it hits the eyes and what the consequences are (the critical roll).
Because if every shot you aimed at the eyes that hit the target would also hit the eyes, every one of those should be a critical hit. It's pretty damned impossible to make a shot in your eye not critical, even moreso because that'll usually continue into your brain.

Francis: Ultima 8 was the release with platform jumping, hack n slash combat, removal of virtues and several other weird changes that departed from the previous games. The game was a complete financial failure, even though they wanted to draw more people into the series with their action-oriented changes.
Conclusion: such changes don't work.
 
"X was hit in the eyes for 8 points" isn't a hit in the eyes?
And why would a shot in the eyes be a lot less likely to hit than a shot in the head?
 
Lumpy said:
"X was hit in the eyes for 8 points" isn't a hit in the eyes?
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Think logically. What would happen if you got a bullet in your eye?
Granted, this is ad-hoc reasoning, but it's the best way to explain why it works like this. Basically, any shot that does marginal damage is usually just a scrape, while a critical hit is usually a full hit.
And why would a shot in the eyes be a lot less likely to hit than a shot in the head?
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Because the head is larger and hence easier to aim at. Furthermore, the mass of the body is closer to the head, hence it's more likely that you'll hit the body anyway if you miss the head. If you miss the eyes however, even the slightest miss to the right or left is automatically miss, as is moving even a teensy bit to the top.
 
Yep, some people have difficulty with the concept that if you're aiming for something in paticular, but don't hit it, you miss it.
 
Francis said:
Roshambo said:
Yeah, and Ultima 8 would have drawn the console Action crowd into the Ultima franchise.

That foolish marketing wet dream didn't quite work either then, Corky.
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Uh.. that'd be Ultima 9, not 8.
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No...I was talking about Ultima 8. Trust me, when I discuss Ultima, I know what I'm talking about. :D

Ultima 8 was where EA decided that Origin wasn't making games that could easily suit the console crowd, and decided to inflict action-styles and jumping puzzles upon the gameplay in order to "cash in on that audience".

Just like Corky there was stupidly trying to add in FPS elements into a CRPG. That idiocy didn't work then for a title as strong as Ultima, it sure as shit isn't going to work for Fallout. FPS and platform-action CAN work in a CRPG, if it's already part of the design. Like Landstalker and Alundra for the platform/RPG hybrids (RPG quality dubious, of course), and Bloodlines for a FPS/RPG hybrid.

The problem with Fallout is that it isn't a hybrid to start, it's pure P&P RPG. Making it into a hybrid would be suicide. FOT was highly-anticipated...until it turned out that the spin-off wasn't that good at what it promised to hybrid, RPG/Tactical. F:POS was akin to the same idiocy that EA circa 1992, when the nearly-automated combat in Ultima VII seemed to half-appeal to more of the action crowd (and was short enough for the lacking attention-span of the EA execs), and therefore the entire game series was killed off in the pursuit of cashing in on crowd that aren't interested in RPGs, or even RPGs crippled by action elements.

EA even took this further, by first (decent, for console, it had a lot of missing things) porting Ultima 6 to the SNES in 1992, which they mistakenly interpereted praise for as meaning the Ultima flavor would work when the gameplay was changed to console fare. Then they pulled the same move Interplay made and decided to have action-based and superficial name-rapes made; a craptacular Ultima: The Black Gate (wasn't anywhere near the same game) and a port of Savage Empire (Ultima: Kyouryuu Teikoku) that had no English release (copies still exist but are rare) but Pony Canyon managed to release it in Japan.

Needless to say, these sucked more ass than any Runes game. It has to be noted that all Ultima products suffered at this point in 1994-95, as well did other Origin titles, for the production of UO.

Ultima 8 was a big break with all the Ultima traditions, throwing you into this wasted world where none of your friends could help you and where even magic worked in a different way. Very morbid. My favorite Ultima in fact.
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Along with these "breaks in traditions", and what earned it the unflattering nickname "Super Avatar Brothers" with the largest Ultima fan group (UDIC), was the platform-jumping that replaced much of the good dungeon-crawling. The rest of the game wasn't that well-planned, either, and it felt to the rest of the Ultimas like one of the crappy TES Adventure games compared to the real TES deal.

The ONLY thing the engine could have been applauded for, compared to the rest of the series, would be a slightly more advanced physics, which were put in there during the development of the Crusader games.

It was this kind of focus, instead of the beloved world dozens of great characters from Sherry the Mouse to Naxatilor the Seer, that utterly killed the game off.

But I'm guessing you're referring to Ultima 9 and its almost-but-not-quite first person perspective.
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Nope, but thanks for noting Ultima 9, which was far worse off in throwing everything Ultima out of the window in lieu of action-based gameplay. It was no wonder then, myself coining, that it was nicknamed "Virtue Raider".

BTW, to that other guy, how can guns work better in FPS? You must not have used targetted shots a lot? I wonder how that could possibly done well in FPS and real-time combat? I don't see a good way myself.
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Because their brain no werk dat güd, requiring a point-and-click interface with every one of their day-to-day activities. Stop trying to get goldfish to think in abstracts. :D
 
RPGenius said:
Yep, some people have difficulty with the concept that if you're aiming for something in paticular, but don't hit it, you miss it.
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:roll: You miss it, so how about you hit something else?
Sander, the eyes are just above the center of the face. Sure, there should be a lower chance - like 65 vs. 90, but not worse.
 
Lumpy said:
:roll: You miss it, so how about you hit something else?
Sander, the eyes are just above the center of the face. Sure, there should be a lower chance - like 65 vs. 90, but not worse.
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Yes, and that's about the chances you have of hitting the head versus the eyes.
So I don't see what your problem is, really.
 
This is a game, if you always hit the head after missing the eyes its still going to do a hell of alot of damage. If fallout is made 1st person, i just dont think id buy it.
 
I personally don't think that it's reasonable to expect EVERY shot to the head/eye area to be massive damage. Even if it WERE an FPS it's not easy to hit up there, and an FPS does not take into accout a grazing hit and near misses.
 
One of the wierdest things for me was the whole never seeing the sky. I'd be really suprised at what Besdestha has in mind for that. First Person perspective would definitly have to show it but i just can't think of what it'd look like. Will it be dull and overcast, searing heat of an endless blue, a smoggy yellow, totally cloudless, full of hundreds of magical Oblivionesque sunset effects?

What does the wasteland sky look like? The games never really seemed overly sunny to me. Perhaps that is just my perception but what do you think?
 
Hotel California said:
One of the wierdest things for me was the whole never seeing the sky. I'd be really suprised at what Besdestha has in mind for that. First Person perspective would definitly have to show it but i just can't think of what it'd look like. Will it be dull and overcast, searing heat of an endless blue, a smoggy yellow, totally cloudless, full of hundreds of magical Oblivionesque sunset effects?

What does the wasteland sky look like? The games never really seemed overly sunny to me. Perhaps that is just my perception but what do you think?
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I picture the skies being clean and blue, with desert-like sunsets. Since it's set a good time after the war, the debris has long settled and all the factories and cars are gone so the sky should be fairly serene. Also, without city lights to steal from their splendor, the stars would be visible in full and endless.
 
Not to mention the ending sequence. You know, the one where the Vault Dweller wanders off into the horizon?
 
Not to mention the tanker video from FO2.

Also, why did I get a "male" VD video, even though I finished the game one time with a FEMALE character?
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Not to mention the tanker video from FO2.

Also, why did I get a "male" VD video, even though I finished the game one time with a FEMALE character?
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I don't think there are two different videos. But you never see the character from the front, so you can't really be sure it's a female.

As for the tanker video, that was preety nice. I guess there's something appealing about these "You restore an old vehicle and use it to go forth" videos.
 
The female has hair, and I doubt she'd shave it off. Besides, her model is nimbler, while the male is a bit buff on the vid.

Though that could be attributred to BuffOut addiction...
 
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