American schools?

If you look at your school all the dumb people are probably the people who sit and mess on all day and the smart ones are people who actually listen.

However some people don’t listen and end up being smart anyway, maybe that has something to do with attention span I don’t know.
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Heh, you're confusing intelligence (=smartness) and knowledge, pal. Intelligence has nothing to do with how hard you study or how hard you work, it is something innate that could be trained (people don't know for certain IIRC) but you're talking about knowledge and performance in class. That's something vastly different.
It's about applying your intelligence or not.

And, as I've already said, the kids that do really well in school, tend to be of the dumber kind (really).
 
bob_the_rambler said:
i have a disability, it is very hard for me to write so that others can read what i've written.
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It's not quite a disability, though I do sympathise as I've also always had that problem. Mostly, all you can do about that is to try to type up as much work as possible.
To call it a disability, to put it on the level of dyslexia or a sight/hearing defect is something of an exaggeration.
 
bob_the_rambler said:
i do have a physical dissability, my right arm is paralized and im a right brained person living a left brain life.
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Oh, right then.
Ignore my last post.
I thought you were saying the bad writing was the disability, not a consequence of it.



*sits in the corner*
 
My theory is that perhaps the convictional nature you gain from practicing a religion weighs some on your schoolin'.
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Ehh.....no. Really, just...no. :P The best students in school are really not religious. And, interestingly, they're not the smartest either. Really, I've heard a lot of students who get really high grades and pay a lot of attention in classes make some of the stupidest remarks ever. Hehe.
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That made me sound kinda stupid, let me clarify. As far as my religious comments, it's not that the religion helps develop the mind, more like helps develop good habits. Hard working people may not necessarily be that smart, just hard workers. In fact, I think religion may stunt the overall IQ of a person, but they try very hard and are good at your more stiff subjects like Math etc.
 
Test scores are extremely low in America because of the fact that students don't actually LEARN what they're taught.

Teachers are literally told that they need to get their students to MEMORIZE the info in their book. Memorization is a key problem in the school system. Since very few students memorize information easily they can barely remember the information they were told until the test. Then they forget what it was. Which is why the first half of the books for the public education system just review everything you did the year before.

My district spends an average of $8000 per student per year. Most of the money left over goes to the overpaid administration that really doesn't do anything to help the education of the students. The majority just deal with disciplinary issues without looking at the problems of the system. Administration judges the performance of a teacher dominantly based on how many students are given detentions/suspensions/expelled very rarely on the average scores of the students.

An average class in the American public education system has average class test scores of about 40%, because the teaching is done through memorization of a couple of days. But, how many of you can memorize a few pages worth of information in a day or two? Once the day/days of memorization is done then students are given a test. Under a memorization system students would need to be given a day in class to analyze the data in smaller groups discussing the info they are required to memorize.

Many students grades go down over time because they're being 'taught' the same thing year after year. Take me for example, I've known everything I'm supposed to know for years. But since day the education system has kept me down in 'training' mode (because they cater only to the average and 'slower' students) even though I'm already done with training. Under those circumstances you're eventually just going to shut down, flip off, and just not care anymore.

Teachers are also part of the problem since they were educated in the same way. Most teachers wanted to become teachers since they wanted to change the education system that they were in because they don't want us to go through the same thing. But once they get to that position many of them have families and the administration tells them that if it's not don’t their way they'll lose their job. Without that job their family would have a tough time making ends meet. Since many teachers loathe the education system so much most of them just don't care about it. So subconsciously they shut down just like the students and just do what it takes to keep their job even though they are not really doing their job. Where do they go for the grades? Personal preference, or test scores (which they do not really grade anymore they just feed them through a machine that has the answers. Then they just write them down in a grade book and average the scores.)

The only real viable solution to the problem is having a massive education reform that would take billions of dollars to carry out. But now most of the administration would not be too happy with that now will they? Since they'll have to endure major salary reductions.

Either an incompetent education system, or, massive reform...
 
lost for life said:
An average class in the American public education system has average class test scores of about 40%, because the teaching is done through memorization of a couple of days.
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I disagree with a lot of what you just said, so please tell me where you're getting your information.
 
bob_the_rambler said:
i do have a physical dissability, my right arm is paralized and im a right brained person living a left brain life.
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Um, I thought the right side of the brain controls the left part of the body... :look:
 
Ozrat said:
lost for life said:
An average class in the American public education system has average class test scores of about 40%, because the teaching is done through memorization of a couple of days.
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linkorstfu.gif
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I disagree with a lot of what you just said, so please tell me where you're getting your information.
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my teachers...
 
l0s7 4 lyf3 said:
Ozrat said:
I disagree with a lot of what you just said, so please tell me where you're getting your information.
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my teachers...
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Then please get them to give you a source and let us know, because I highly doubt that its true.

Teachers may give you biased information about how they believe that the level of education is going downhill, especially since they work in the field themselves, but it sure as hell isn't that severe.
 
I got here too late in the post, so I'm not going to read everyone else's stuff to check if what I'm typing is already here:

I'm in college right now and 2 classes away from being an elementary school teacher. There are problems with public schools, but I don't think the standards have dropped. The schools are just focusing on the wrong things now. If anything, standards have been getting higher over the past 5 years.

It's my belief that the teachers in America trained in the 60's/70's who were teaching in the 70's, 80's, and 90's are just bad teachers. My professors admit it, and I'm sure a lot of other educators would agree. It's not that it is intentional, it is just that these teachers didn't receive the amount and quality of training of current day teachers.

The main problem is that they are dependant on curriculum guides rather than their own creative lesson plans. Many of these guides are difficult to adapt for different styles of learners (though this has changed in the past 10 years as inclusion and gifted programs have grown).

Educational theory has grown by leaps and bounds since the mid 80's, but many districts or even states did not require teachers to attend professional development training. We've got Bloom's Taxonomy, the work coming from New Zealand (almost a 99% literacy rate there), and a lot of work with the 8 types of learners. This just was not widely available to most teachers until recently. And now this is required material.

Another problem with education today is that once again, instead of working on helping student's learn and retain information, teachers are almost FORCED to teach to standardized tests. In Oklahoma (where I'm at) about 80% of the school year has become dedicated to studying for tests and for reading up on Core Knowledge. Oklahoma has PASS (Priority Academic Student Skills) but with all the testing required by the Bush administration before the schools can get money, many teachers have to neglect our own state standards.

A real problem I see is the emphasis on "Zero Tolerance" in the school systems. Kid's getting expelled for looking at another kid in a bad way. A kid gets expelled for drawing a picture of people dying. Kids expelled for pushing another kid.

Seriously...Kid's are mean, and they have always been mean. Teachers got all scared about school shootings and random school violence that they're taking this way overboard. My friend's daughter was expelled for the school year because she had a lighter in her backpack. Her friend had a cigarette. They "planned" to smoke a cigarette, got caught, and are not going back to school until next year where they will repeat the same grade over again.

I could go on and on about why the school system is the way it is, but I'll end on why it's getting better.

Starting about 7 years ago, becoming a teacher became extremely difficult (at least in Oklahoma). It's slated as a 4 year degree, however I know NO ONE that has graduated in 4 years. We have to overload ourselves with classes, even in the summer, just to meet the minimum requirements. They change the requirements on almost a semester by semester basis, so we're ending up with more and more classes. We're now required to have a lot more field experiences than previous generations of teachers (that's where we actually go out and teach, tutor, or just observe at a school.) We're forced to build up libraries of children's books. On any given day, we have at least one class discussion, a lesson plan due, theory articles to turn in, etc.

There is so much work involved that the people who aren't cut out to be teachers, or those who would become the shitty teachers most of us American's had as children will be weeded out. The only ones becoming teachers now are the dedicated ones. We're getting more training and specialization than you can imagine.

So what we have (probably going to be teaching your children) are young, fresh men and women that care about their job, know what they're doing, and will teach so much better than the teachers of the past 3 decades. We won't degrade our position by doing nothing but standardized tests or by using a curriculum guide non-stop. We're adaptive, entertaining, and FUCKING GREAT TEACHERS! AHH! RAWK!
 
Just noticed the double post. NMA hates me, or something.

I noticed a lot of people agreeing that American schools suck and that their experiences sucked.

My experiences sucked, too. I was threatened (seriously) by teachers, spent a lot of time in the office, and was generally disliked by the school population. I hated school, and I know I didn't learn a damn thing from grade 6 to grade 12.

That's why I'm a teacher now, and why most people are becoming teachers now. We want to make the system better. We're tired of the shitters that are controlling the schools that made our lives miserable. New teachers have a goal: Make school better for our children than it was for us.

Keep that in mind. When your children reach college, they will be able to look back and say "eh..That wasn't so bad." :) And the children that become teachers from that generation will make it even better.

There's really no hope for high school, though. High school sucks, and will always suck.

EDIT: Let me also mention, that where I'm from, they had to lay off hundreds of teachers last year. Every school I've been to lately has had to either get lower wattage bulbs for their lighting, or just turn the lights off alltogether. Teachers wages dropped a bit, too, and the only way to get copies (in quite a few districts) is for the teacher to go to Kinko's and spend their money for their own materials.

Even the schools I attended (middle-class suburbia) have the same situation. The halls are completely black except the light coming from the doors (which are all locked all day because of security). It's just fucking rediculous.

Bush's "No Child Left Behind" has fuckered the school system because of it's horrible implementation.
 
bob_the_rambler said:
you cant blame bush policy for our schools, they where srewed up way before he came into office.
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You can blame Bush and the federal government for forcing schools (paid by local taxes) to undertake certain programs that they couldn't afford.

You can also blame old folks who don't want to pay property taxes so that schools can be better.

You can also blame the folks that support school vouchers for trying to get money for sending their kids to private schools and in the process trying to bankrupt public schools.

You can blame the Republicans for trying to create a system where only the upper classes can get a decent education and the lower classes get fucked.

Honestly, I went to a pretty good school district. We had computers, teachers that cared. My teachers were taught to be teachers in the 60s and 70s and brought to their profession a dedication and nobility. People paid taxes and supported schools because they thought education was important. We had a great band, great teams and a good student body.

To hear about schools were the teachers aren't paid enough and have to work second jobs, to think of teachers who have to pay for materials out of their own pockets, of schools that can't afford athletics anymore, makes me wonder what got so fucked up.
 
bob_the_rambler said:
you cant blame bush policy for our schools, they where srewed up way before he came into office.
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The only thing I'm blaming Bush for is the testing. Before Bush, the schools didn't put as much emphasis on standardized testing as they're forced to do now in order to get money to keep the schools open.
 
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