Any advice on how to deal with spawning issues possibly caused by mods

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 and New Vegas Modding' started by The Dutch Ghost, Aug 23, 2023.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    Recently I have switched mod managers for Fallout New Vegas, finally retiring FOMM in favor of MO2.
    In general the program runs fine but I am starting to run into an issue I can't seem to track down; NPCs spawning at the wrong place. In this case a NCR soldier who appears in Primm before the player gets the quest to eliminate the bandits.
    Now I do not use many game changing mods outside boosting a couple of weapons. Rather I have been focusing on mods that restore content that was not in the base game and mods like Open Freeside to remove unneeded barriers. I know these mods are definitely the cause because I have been using them for ages. Recently though I did find a couple more mods modders had made that restore small bits of missing content.
    I also found out that I did use some mods that increase the number of bandits and NCR soldiers in Primm but I have removed these because they also screwed with how this place is suppose to work.

    In order to find out what made the NCR soldier spawn in Primm I decided to turn of mods and then systematically check which one makes the soldier spawn at this particular point. (near the garage). After finding out that a completely unrelated mod (one that added a Primm-Legion alliance) caused the soldier spawn, I deactivated it.
    Now however something else causes the soldier to spawn above the fence/wall near the bus wreckage.

    I think this soldier is suppose to appear at the underpass guard point but something is making it spawn within Primm. I just have no idea on how to track the cause of the problem down.
    Does anyone here have any advice for me on how I can solve this problem?

    In the next post I will put the list of mods I am using.

    On a sidenote; for some reason the Powder Gangers also turned hostile without clear reason though I think it may have to do with that I was shutting down explosives. Maybe they are considered 'owned'.
     
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I am closer to solving the problem. It is apparently caused by a mod named "Outside Bets" that restores missing content to Fallout New Vegas. The soldier was most likely an NPC that got cut but now gets respawn back on the map. Problem is, the NPC is spawned at the wrong location, causing the problems I mentioned.
    My first attempt to resolve some of the issues was to raise the mod in the load order of plugins but that has not solved the problem. Weird thing is is that I remember having this problem years ago as well but that I managed to solve it. Unfortunately I do not recall how.

    Edit: and the problem returns when I use a completely unrelated mod that makes a Primm-Legion take over possible. At best I think mods that enhance Primm cause the spawn issue.
     
  3. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Vault Senior Citizen

    May 12, 2020
    Have you ever used FNVedit? Makes things much easier to see how mods are conflicting with each other. It’s possible the NPC’s spawn coordinates are being affected by another mod, and FNVedit can be used to see what the problem is and allow you to manually fix it without even having to open the GECK.

    I too have problems with Outside Bets, it frequently conflicts with other restored content mods.
     
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello @Iprovidelittlepianos,
    No I have never used that mod before or even knew about it, but I will check it out. I hope I am able to understand it and determine the issue.

    On the subject, when I use the other Primm mods the soldier is also spawned but lacks routines like where he is suppose to go.

    Really annoying and sadly the developer seems to have abandoned it.
     
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello @Iprovidelittlepianos,

    I have downloaded FNVedit and I have been trying it out to see if I can understand it and its interface. I will probably have to go through the instructions website to understand what function does what but I don't know if I will ever understand this program.
    Right now I have already run into one difficulty. FNVedit can not 'read' the mods I am using. This probably has to do with the fact that Mod Organizer unlike FOMM doesn't require downloaded mods to be in the data section of the Fallout New Vegas files. Rather it 'emulates' the mods onto FNV without actually making any software changes. The benefit is that the FNV maps stay very clean and unaltered, no messing with having to remove files like meshes when you want to remove a mod that say put in Ultramarine armor in Fallout New Vegas. Because FNV can not read the mods I don't think it can see how 'Outside Bets' conflicts with vanilla Fallout New Vegas, determining what causes the NPC spawning issue for example. I think I would actually have to put the mod into the FNV data map in order for FNV being able to find the conflict.
    I have however found out through FNVedit that the NPC in question; 00157cda, is normally disabled. Outside Bets definitely brought it back but I don't understand how the Primm-Legion alliance mod also makes the NPC spawn.
     
  6. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Vault Senior Citizen

    May 12, 2020
    I just looked at it myself and it seems like all outsidebets does is reenable the NPC. If you can’t figure out a fix, your best bet might be just manually changing the XYZ Position coordinates of the NPC, which is easy through FNVedit (and probably easy through the GECK too), but that requires a lot of trial and error.

    I’m not sure how to change the path FNVedit uses to find the NV Data folder, so good luck with that. I use Vortex, which is apparently terrible, but it made FNVedit installation easy.
     
  7. PaxVenire

    PaxVenire Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    840
    Oct 29, 2020
    @The Dutch Ghost First off, congrats on dumping FMM, it's soooo outdated and MO2 is simply just better. Second, I'm not exactly sure what mods are conflicting with Outside Bets to cause your issues, but that mod Outside Bets is super old and there's a newer cleaner version that has many bug fixes. Third, don't use Freeside Open, it's known for being absolutely game breaking at worst and just a broken mod at best. Instead I recommend Simple Open Freeside and Simple Open Strip that does the same things without breaking your game.

    And finally, if you aren't against it, I highly highly recommend you do a fresh install of New Vegas and follow this guide called Viva New Vegas. It's a modular guide for New Vegas on MO2 that fixes so many bugs and issues in the game and with Bethesda's shit engine. It's unparalleled and even holds your hand on how to make your New Vegas the best it can be in case you're not experienced with modding or computer jargon, and it's completely vanilla friendly with the game-changing and graphics mods bring an optional part of the guide after the initial fixing of the game. You can simply stop modding your game after the fixes section if you don't want to lose the vanilla experience.

    If you chose to use this guide, after fixing your game up there's even a "Mods to Avoid" page that explains exactly what mods are old and broken while also offering newer alternatives that do the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2023
  8. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Vault Senior Citizen

    May 12, 2020
    In my experience Simple Open Freeside doesn’t restore nearly as much content as Freeside Open, but to each his own.
     
  9. PaxVenire

    PaxVenire Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    840
    Oct 29, 2020
    Simple Open Freeside just makes Freeside an open worldspace and doesn't restore any content. Freeside Open however is broken. Simple Open Freeside plus NV Uncut 1, 3, and 7, is a better alternative. You get the restored content and open worldspace without the broken Freeside Open mod.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  10. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Vault Senior Citizen

    May 12, 2020
    But what about my generic NPCs!
     
  11. PaxVenire

    PaxVenire Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    840
    Oct 29, 2020
  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Sorry that I have not responded earlier but I have been replacing the files as you have suggested @PaxVenire, but like @Iprovidelittlepianos said, one reason why I used uncut Freeside was because of missing NPCs and such.
    I probably should open a complete new game to see if this works.

    Edit: well the game is definitely a lot more stable since I replaced Open Freeside and Open Strip with the simple versions as then it was rather prone to crash. But the issue with troopers 00157cda persists. Something keeps spawning him and it does not even seem to be Outside bets this time.
     
  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    These are BTW the mods I have been using
     

    Attached Files:

  14. PaxVenire

    PaxVenire Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    840
    Oct 29, 2020
    So from these lists I'm noticing a lot of things wrong. For example, a lot of the bugfixes mods you have installed are already covered in the latest version of YUP and NVSE, which may lead to the some issues you're having or bloating of the engine (Though I can't say if your specific issue in Primm is a result of this). Another thing is that no mods should be above the base content which is the base game and DLC ESMs. And I also see YUP is at the very bottom which isn't good.

    I'm sorry to say, but I can't isolate what specific mod or conflict is causing your game's issue, but I do see a lot wrong with the ESM/ESP lists presented here. I can really only suggest either reinstalling all your mods one by one until you isolate your issue, or highly recommend you try this:

     
  15. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    This is not the list in order which the mods are run.

    That is this one

    Those would be?

    I noticed by the way that I move the NPC this topic is about to a different location, I leave the Primm worldspace, and I then return to it that he respawns near the gas station.

    I have implemented most of the fixes you suggested.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Still no closer to finding the problem after disabling and re enabling mods, but I have made a curious discovery; the NPC around which my topic revolves at some point spawns where he is suppose to be and shows standard NPC behavior like walking around, leaning against a wall and fence, etc.

    On a side note, found out that another mod conflicts with the game as it disables the dialog of one of the NPCs. After the player has found out about the planned NCR attack on NCRCF the player can ask Lt Hayes if they can join in the attack. When I have the mod "I fought the law" on https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/52785 Hayes' lines are not voiced. Maybe because I don't have the note that the player is suppose to find on Cobb's body.

    Also removed an unnecessary NPC spawn mod for the casinos as I am now using a different one.

    I am going to look into this topic again tomorrow.
     
  17. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Been a while since I last posted in this topic. I am still no closer to finding a solution and it can not be that another mod is conflicting with Outside Bets. I tried disabling all except YUP and the problems of the weird spawn continues to persist.
    Even updating the files has not fixed the problem. The weird thing is that I have not seen anyone else on the FNV nexus forums bring it up so I wonder why I am the only one who has the issue.
    I could start a complete new game with just YUP, New Vegas Uncut, and Outside Bets on to see if it still happens but that would be rather annoying as I would have to go through the entire opening again.