Any stuff related to unofficial F2 patches goes in here!

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Per, Mar 20, 2005.

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  1. srkal

    srkal First time out of the vault

    14
    Aug 5, 2006
    A Bug

    I remembered a bug that I used to have long ago. It's with that book in New Reno at Father Tulley's (or something like that) that gives you 300% at all skills - it oddly, only pumps up to 299% for tagged skills. I can't send you a save-game (since this was long ago), but Per confirmes the oddity in his Nearly Ultimate Guide.
     
  2. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Re: A Bug

    Well I did fix up the book that Tully gives you but alas it is still not perfect. Have you tried the fixed one in my patch yet?

    I am not sure if the tagged issue is fixed as well as a few other issues with maxing out all the stats. The reason for this is that many of the commands are not working properly when done from a script and only seem to work if they are hardcoded and done straight from the engine. So alas, this issue will most likely never be fixed.
     
  3. belengario

    belengario First time out of the vault

    19
    Apr 11, 2006
    Hello, Killap.

    May you be more specific about this? What is the chance?

    Thanks
     
  4. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    If I remember correctly this "poison" I was referring to was the syringe you get containing a lethal dose of poison. Before the player could use it and never get poisoned. Now, using it (100% chance) the player will become poisoned.
     
  5. ThunderCloud

    ThunderCloud First time out of the vault

    9
    Dec 4, 2005
    My comments/opinions on the raider base fix

    This is regarding the fix "• The base is now hidden"

    ==Negative Impacts of the fix==

    * Increase the time it takes to complete the wipe-out-raider's-base quest.
    * Makes the combatants in the cave easier to handle because by the time you get to New Reno, you'd have much better equipment (combat armor, bozar, .225, et cetera) and higher level than if you fought them right after Gecko/VC.

    ==Why I think this fix is unusual==

    I don't think being able to find the base without a map is a bug, here's why:

    • The developers intended for the player to be able to find the base without getting the map.
    -> Special cave entrance that you never arrive in if you had the map
    -> Special heavily trapped tunnel for that entrance
    -> It's located in a straight line formed by Vault City and NCR (and broken hills).
    -> Items recovered from the Raider's base hint at a connection to NCR/New Reno (I can't remember exactly), but when you find the map in Bishop's safe, you would have already known that Bishop is behind the attacks (although I don't remember if the contents of his safe tells you his motive).
    • When Stark says the base is very difficult (he might've said 'near impossible' or 'might not be possible', I don't remember) to find unless you have the map to it (or something along the line), he may just be sour that him and his men can't find it. Or the dialog writer might just have been exaggerating the task's difficulty.

    ==What's the alternative to making the base 'hidden' (impossible to access unless the map is found)?==

    If killip is still convinced that this is a bug fix and not just a game difficulty balance fix (which I thought is not the original intention of his patch), 1 or more of the following alternatives could be considered (they may be technically very difficult to implament though):

    1) Decrease the size of the big ass circle to the smallest one.
    2) Allow lone travellers to place the base on the map.
    3) Make the base's circle invisible but allow the player to find the base by stopping and entering town map (I mean, switching from world map to local map) at the square the raider's base is on.
    Note: I actually spend quite a while going square to square, toggling between world map and local map when I first played using the patch because I misunderstood what "The base is now hidden" meant. I thought it meant the town circle is hidden... It wasn't so bad though because the world map moving speed fix wasn't introduced yet at that time.
    4) Making the base a unique random encounter. Perhaps based on outdoorsman and or luck and perhaps only has a chance of occuring when the player walks through the square the base is located.
    5) Make the raider base town circle small AND make the circle show up only when the player is in the square the circle occupies.
     
  6. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    I agree. They had originally intended for it to be hidden, but it's pretty clear they'd had to reconsider this before the game shipped. I don't really know why it's in the fixpack, possibly because Seraph/Celestial had labelled it a bug already.
     
  7. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Well the main reason I decided to include this was that 1 of the entrances to this place was a random cave and the other "secret" entrance was a manhole in the middle of nowhere. Pretty odd for the player to just "stumble" across this. I admit that what I have done is not technically a bug fix and it is something I had added to my patch before I really had everything planned out for what my patch would include.

    Many of you have expressed your unhappiness with this alteration of mine and therefore I shall be changing this for my next release. I could make travellers give its location but again that is certainly not something intended by the developers. The rest of your suggestions ThunderCloud are not really possible with the game's engine so I shall just reduce the size of the circle to the smallest one the game supports. I appreciate your analysis ThunderCloud, as they are much better than just saying "I don't like this change of yours. Change it back."
     
  8. dalponis

    dalponis First time out of the vault

    56
    Aug 10, 2003
    I found that fix a good thing.

    It was too easy to find the radiers. Maybe, keep it hidden, but as he said, if you stop and enter the map, on the spot of the Raider Base, it allows you to go in.
     
  9. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    I realize this, but too many have expressed their dislike for this "fix" What you suggest would most likely be the best way to do it, however, I know of no way to actually accomplish something like that. I don't believe it is possible to do such things with the Fallout engine.

    As of right now, the Raiders base will no longer be hidden but rather a very small circle on the map.

    EDIT: Just for the record, another reason why I decided the Raiders should be hidden is that the Sierra Army Depot is also hidden until one is told where it is. I felt that if a large facility could not be found by the Chosen One by wandering the map, then why should a cave in the mountainside be any different.
     
  10. McWulf

    McWulf First time out of the vault

    2
    Jan 16, 2006
    Hi Killap! I started playing the game again after many years with your latest patch and I havent encounter a single bug unlike before. Congrats, great work. The reason I'm writing to you however, is about the missing projectile of the pulse gun. I dont know if this was discussed before, and I realize this is more like a left out thing rather than a bug (or maybe it is). I wonder why it hasnt got one since the pulse pistol and the rifle in the not so popular Fallout Tactics game has is too. And by the way it is my most favourite weapon by far. :)
    There is another patch - i don't remember its name - which corrected this glitch, but I dont wish to use it because of its other modifications.
    Could it be possible that you add it to your next release?
     
  11. Oracle

    Oracle Vault Senior Citizen

    May 19, 2003
    I totally agree with this. Its a secret base, hidden in caves so whats the point in making it equal as a "big" city.

    Maybe it would be good the get the Raider location on another way. Like the map spawning on raiders that ambus you ?
    Or creating a new random encounter with dead vaultcity gaurds with the map? etc etc.

    If the raiders location comes back then maken the circle smaller is a nice idea.
     
  12. cosma_sebastian

    cosma_sebastian First time out of the vault

    21
    Aug 6, 2005
    Come on, it's the raiders base, it supposed to be hidden.

    It's a good fix. Pls don't change it.
     
  13. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Supposed to? In the original design, sure. In the finished game? That remains to be shown.

    The question is whether it's a bug fix.
     
  14. MIB88

    MIB88 So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder

    Feb 22, 2005
    Just for the record, Killap, I also like the way you dealt with the raiders' base (although not a bug fix), and I intend to keep it like that in the Megamod.
     
  15. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Oh, so now I get responses with people who are happy with the change. :wink:

    Honestly the only choice I have is either leave it hidden until the map is found, return it as it normal state (big green circle), or decrease the size of it to a really small circle.

    Making it findable through encounters and such are all good ideas, however, they are not in the scope of my patch.

    I am still debating what I shall do, but I am leaning towards it being no longer hidden and instead a small circle on the map.
     
  16. cosma_sebastian

    cosma_sebastian First time out of the vault

    21
    Aug 6, 2005
    I mean, naturaly, it supposed to be hidden.

    I don't know that.

    @Per
    Are you planing to update you guide with the fixes from this patch?
    @killap
    Maybe releasing to patches, or just a quik fix for the people who wants the base to no longer be hidden.
     
  17. MIB88

    MIB88 So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder

    Feb 22, 2005
    So, such a patch would mean changing, oh, maybe 4 or 5 files. Easy, right? Now multiply that by a hundred, because as soon as he makes a specific patch like that, then everyone is gonna want their own tailor-made Killap patch to do and undo things the way they see fit. That is one of the reasons I just make the Megamod like I want to do it, because it would be way too much time and effort to appease everybody.
    I am not picking on you, cosma. But, I think by doing something like that he would open up a serious can of worms.
     
  18. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Don't worry MIB88 I am not even considering this. You make a valid point though. You cannot appease everyone.
     
  19. cosma_sebastian

    cosma_sebastian First time out of the vault

    21
    Aug 6, 2005
    It's just a suggestion, i'm not saying that he should do like i said. :wink:
     
  20. Skynet

    Skynet Mildly Dipped

    501
    Jun 5, 2003
    You can easily switch start_state value ON/OFF for raiders in CITY.TXT.
     
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