Are games art? Well, Fallout 3 is getting there

[Fade]

As for the judging standards - well, it seems you just propose we lower them for the specific new genre. I don't see why that should be the case, and it will certainly not have a positive impact.

Not lower standards just different. Looking for brush strokes in a photograph would be silly. Still a painting of a woman & a photo of the same woman can both be art and should be judged differently. The standards classical arts has gone up & down over the centuries with different styles. In any case standards make it easier to judge skill of the artist, but as I posted earlier in the thread I judge things on a case by case basis.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

As for the judging standards - well, it seems you just propose we lower them for the specific new genre. I don't see why that should be the case, and it will certainly not have a positive impact.

Not lower standards just different. Looking for brush strokes in a photograph would be silly. Still a painting of a woman & a photo of the same woman can both be art and should be judged differently. The standards classical arts has gone up & down over the centuries with different styles. In any case standards make it easier to judge skill of the artist, but as I posted earlier in the thread I judge things on a case by case basis.

Well, I didn't really mean it that way. However, CG art already exists as a "lower" (no offense) art form, so no need for new standards in that sense.

However, it would be a challenge (too much perhaps) to come up with solid new standards upon which to judge games as an art and not as a product, which is why I believe treating games as art is very unlikely, not the least because the necessary culture and quality will take more than 30 years to develop in order to be universally accepted as "art".

 

[Crni Vuk]

It's all about intention in my opinion. I might take a shit today and flush down the toilet and call it disposal of my bodily wastes. But tomorrow I could do the same and call it art. No one has the right to say that what I did was not art.

I'm pretty sure the people at Beth think their games are works of art and therefore we don't have the right to discuss whether it's art or not.

We could of course talk about it's artistic merit through a comparative analysis of other similar works of art; mainly computer games, but also other textual and visual arts since a computer game encompasses many different aspects of the generally accepted fields of art.

I am pretty sure that the people at Beth treat "their" Fallout 3 more as a product then anything.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

I am pretty sure that the people at Beth treat "their" Fallout 3 more as a product then anything.

One does not exclude other. Just like I said before in this thread, they may treat it as a product, but nothing can stop them from exploiting the idea of calling FO3 art with all the marketable benefits that come from it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Though its in my eyes a slight change in the "terms". As it is changing the intentions behind what it should achieve. Now art is always a form of comunication between the creator and the specator [If a tree falls in the woods and there’s nobody to hear it does it make a noice. If you create art and nobody ever will see it ...].

Bethesda is very fast with their apply of cenorship on their "art" even if no one calls for it (see Japanese version). Now even if this is a product ... which I am sure the Sixteen Chapel was done for sure with the same purpose, to earn "money" with "artistical work", but now imagine if Michelangelo would have been so "lightly" about censorship who knows how it would have looked like in the end?.

I think for it to be art in my opinion it is important what the artists intentions are and how he wants to comunicate, its not a perfect point of course as I see certain things done by retarded people (with their mind) as well as art in some way. Now someone mentioned here in a bit ridculous way [but has a point]:

It's all about intention in my opinion. I might take a shit today and flush down the toilet and call it disposal of my bodily wastes. But tomorrow I could do the same and call it art. No one has the right to say that what I did was not art.
...

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Something you do everyday can become "art" if your intentions are to make it art. Otherwhise it would be ... a everyday task.

Bethesda in my eyes discredits their own work in a way that it doesnt fitt my view of art anymore. Its a product. Cause they treat it like a product. Thus the "viewer" should see it like a product.

Otherwhise even flushing poo trough the toilet would become art, as long its performed by Michelangelo or Da Vinci (even if they had no intention to make it art), cause "everything hes doing is already art, cause its art by itself"