Battlefield 4

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by BonusWaffle, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    The Red Army was essentially a slave army, driven forward by slave drivers of the NKVD whipping them and ensuring obedience by executing anyone who stepped out of line. They represented a regime just as murderous as the Third Reich, and certainly more destructive, since it was free to destroy for nearly eighty years, whereas Nazism was extinguished in twelve.

    Throwing every German soldier into a bag called EEEVULZ is stupid. There were many patriots among them who believed they were fighting for a strong Germany and wiping off the humiliation Germany suffered after World War I. While it can be argued that knowledge of the extermination programs could've been acquired, Germans weren't widely aware of the genocide perpetrated by the Nazi regime. In fact, the regime went to great lengths to suppress knowledge of it and keep the people in the dark. There's a reason why SS-Totenkopf (the branch of the SS responsible for staffing and running the camps) was composed of really fucked up people.

    Furthermore, there were Germans that fundamentally disagreed with the Nazis and even worked against them. The conspiracy against Hitler is the most well known, but you also had remarkable individuals such as Hauptmann Wilm Hosenfeld, Leutnant Heinz Drossel, or Major Karl Plagge. And there are likely a lot more unsung heroes that will remain forgotten.

    Were there plenty of scumbags in the ranks regardless? That's likely. But the true evil was concentrated in SS formations, especially those under deranged psychos like Erich van dem Bach-Zelewski.
     
  2. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    There were many people in Red Army who were also there to fight for the freedom. When the eastern front opened, you can look at the humongous numbers of voluntary POW on the Soviet Side (hundreds of thousands) within the first months. But afterwards? It stopped. Not because they were threatened by officers, and maybe not to fight for Stalin or 'great mother Russia'. But to defend against the horrible invader.
     
  3. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    What freedom? The Red Army was the single absolute worst organisation to be a member of. You were stuck in the most horrible meat grinder in history, fighting the armies of one megalomaniacal bastard for another megalomaniacal bastard, with a politruk spying on your every step, making sure you toe the party line or else.

    If you want an impression of the "freedom" you claim the Red Army was fighting for, look up Solzhenitsyn. A decorated veteran, he still got the Lubyanka treatment and a trip to the gulags for a private opinion of Stalin.
     
  4. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    I didn't say the Soviet soldiers were not repressed. But stating that many of the Red Army troops were commanded solely by fear is a little stretch. It's well known they hated Stalin, and they fought not for him and his ideas but for the freedom from the Nazi regime.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    did they? It is hard to argue about that, since what you describe is a situation where you have to face the lesser of two evils.

    In fact, if the Nazis-Party would have operated in Russia the same way they did in France for example the situation might have been very different, because they had strict orders to not cause to much collateral damage and deal with the french population in a rather gentle way, relatively speaking of course, the Germans didn't hesitate to fight any resistance or to take what ever they wanted if they saw a need for it, but they didn't applied the total war doctrine on France in the 1940s nor the idea to destroy French as population.

    The east european states and even inside of Russia the population had a somewhat euphoric feeling about the German victories at least in the first months of the war particularly since they literally steam rolled over the defences of the Soviet army. Of course this was not true for every region, but there are a lot of situations where people burned their communistic books they got from their party. And there have been even Soviet Generals which wanted to fight Stalin.

    The people realized rather fast though that the Germans, their leadership have been as bad if not even worse compared to Stalin. Neither Hitler nor Stalin had a problem with looting nations like the Ukraine to feed their armies and accepting the death of millions.

    The Soviet army made a lot of transformations between 1939 and 44/45 where they have literally rebuild their whole military a couple of times. That alone is quite a feat. I am not sure if any other nation, including Germany or the US could have really achieved that if they had to face the same situation. Of course they would not have managed this without the aid by the British and US industry which supported the Soviet forces with military equipment and most importantly logistics, like locomotives, trucks, jeeps and radio communication even by the standards of 1944 a radio was only present in maybe every second Soviet tank and many Soviet tanks had radios manufactured in US factories.

    In the end the difference between Soviet and German troops was not really that huge anyway. The closer the war was to its end German soldiers had to face a lot of pressure and reprisals just like the Soviets that have been constantly pushed by Stalin and his commanders to rush forward getting their hands on Berlin wasting men in many battles that could have been avoided eventually by a more careful planing. Soviet losses have been very high even in the near end of WW2.

    I have a high respect for the Soviet Soldier, the normal rifleman on the front line. I cant or don't want to imagine the terror they had to endure and after the war most of the vets got a kick by the communistic regime if you didn't had the luck to be one of the popular veterans who got several medals. The effects of the war on the Soviet Union have been unbelievable. A lot of the Nation was in ruins, many Soldiers crippled mentally and physically, probably a lot more then others because they had to fight the terror of the front line and the pressure in the back by their commanders which in turn had to deal with the very often unrealistic demands by Stalin and the high command. And it has been even worse for those which have been POWs in German camps. Most of them have been labeled as cowards if not outright as traitors. Yet the streets have been cleaned by the communistic party they simply didn't liked the picture of vets roaming the cities. It was as well forbidden for soldiers to keep a diary or writing letters. It has a reason why there are only very few photos and movies made by the Soviets. No one wanted to see the Soviet army in engagements where they had to retreat or fighting for their lives in pockets. Well not to mention there simply have not been always enough people to make pictures, every man was needed either in the factories or on the front line.
     
  6. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    But this was, exact, careful planning. Stalin was hoping to exterminate as many Soviet people as possible in this war (some sources say he aimed at 7.85 million troop deaths annually) as his plans extended into a Stalinist Europe. This is why I argue soldiers who fought for freedom (and yes, they did) could not have defended Stalin or his country, they defended their country, even if it was a small village in the wood. It seems some here believe Russian people are cowards - not really, they fear for their life much like any other, but they still have sense of patriotism, for their family and for the other common Russian people.
     
  7. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    I came here to talk about the game and this discussion is up again? -.-

    Anyway, the game is nice, reminds much more of BF2 again which is a good thing. Movement is slower and it is in general much more team oriented again. Graphics are amazing, so is the sound.

    It has some problems though. The netcode is beyond terrible and I hope they fix this ASAP. It wasn't good in BF3, but miles better than this. The server crashes seem to be fixed though.
     
  8. Dienan

    Dienan It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    Aug 22, 2013
    Derailed threads, derailed threads everywhere..
     
  9. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    It isn't a stretch. I highly recommend reading up on the conditions in the Red Army. The Soviet soldier was screwed, because he was fighting for an even worse regime than the Nazis and should he be taken prisoner, he could expect either death in a POW camp for Soviet soldiers, or death in a gulag upon "liberation" by his comrades.

    There really wasn't any place for lofty goals, such as "freedom." All a Red Armist could do was to survive.
     
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    a worse regime? I dont think the German soldier of 1944/45 was much better off then a Soviet Infantry men. Comparing the Nazis and the Soviets is to decide if it is better to have malaria or cholera
     
  11. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    How about this: Being in either army was bad. The exact nature of it depended on what position you were in, the circumstances and how lucky you were.

    I bet an elite german soldier had better luxuries than a lowly russian conscript, and vice versa.

    Now how about we stop this sillyness unless someone actually brings up a source/facts?

    Okay, now that that's over with. . .

    How about that battlefield 4? I have no knowledge of any of the content of the game, but as far as aesthethics go it seems like they just slapped a 4 over that 3. It's literally the same logo. The difference between 2 and 3 was at least something. How lazy.
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    you are right, there is not much to talk about really.
     
  13. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    You complain.... about the logo? :/

    The actual game changes and tons of new stuff are enough for me to warrant it as a new title.
     
  14. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    Well I had to say something battlefield related, since you guys wouldn't. :)

    So what did they change?
     
  15. Dienan

    Dienan It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    Aug 22, 2013
    Compaired to older Battlefield games, this time the scripted injuries of the PC is at a normal rate. I hated how you could survive an otherwise fatal fall or a hammer to the face. Still, the cover system (made me give up Battlefield 3) works great. I can deploy bipods and shoot in cover for a second or two. Anyway, bullet drop is crap. You never get that feeling no matter how hard you try. I just used that *spoiler* sniper rifle with a centered scope the entire game. No need to compensate for bullet drop too much. IMO crosshairs was a bad move on pc. We don't even have a little option to turn in off. Colorblind option was great. Although the term colorblind is a kind of an insault for a person with a color deficiency. Something that makes me mad when I hear it.
     
  16. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    I bet the saying that colorblind people see everything in grey is even worse.
     
  17. Dienan

    Dienan It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    Aug 22, 2013
    ^It's not a choice. You're born with it, my friend. I have a slight color deficiency, to be honest. I've never f*cked anything up because of it. Although it prevents you from applying for certain career paths. Don't let it disencourage you. There's always a job if you can work hard and honest.
    Anyway, I've read somewhere that 'they' gave a 'friendly threat' to those who fixed COD's FOV case (65 degs locked) and have the fix shutted down. That 6GB requirment was fake, I knew it the first day they said it. Not even Battlefield 4 use more than 3gigs of RAM and 2gigs of VRAM most of the time. They have fallen so low to hard code a false ram check into the game. A desparate move to show off their game is next gen'y in terms of hardware requirments..
     
  18. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
     
  19. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    I never said it was a choice. That would be extremely odd. And I've known quite a number of people with colorblindness who have explained it quite well to me. In fact, one of them was a 3d modeller and he was doing quite well.

    No. This is virtuality.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu6gxljHXJM[/youtube]
     
  20. Dienan

    Dienan It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    Aug 22, 2013
    ^Might be good for a laugh, though I don't understand what you meant by that image
    http://www.cinemablend.com/m/games/...quirement-Fake-Modders-Offer-Patch-60336.html
    and here,
    http://www.incgamers.com/2013/11/call-duty-ghosts-pc-fov-fix-taken-following-activision-threats

    I bet you did and if you knew the difference between color deficency and total color blindness, you wouldn't be referring to a person with a slight deuteranopia a colorblind. As far as I know, total color blindness is the only real case that would cause life-breaking problems. Still makes me laugh in The Hangover 3. Most casese don't prevent you from seeing a color totally as reffered in the term colorblindness. Isn't it a bit too harsh?