Sub-Human said:
To clarify, Crni. I'm not against playing for Afghan farmers, Vietcong locals, Iraqi military - because, indeed, the story here is complicated, with Americans acting as aggressors.
But Nazi Germans? No, sir. Yes, Soviets raped many European women, but in the end they fought against invaders, a war machine that has sworn to exterminate or enslave all other nations in the world. How can a Wehrmacht soldier be forgiven for this? I would be honored to meet people who have resisted joining the Nazi army, even openly fight against them. Many Soviet recruits were teenagers, fighting against trained men (who were well aware of what they were doing). How can I play for a side which fought against young soldiers who then suffered back home (repressions, families falling apart)? I feel pity for Soviet soldiers.
Please. You seem like some form of inteligent person. Do you really, REALLY believe that all of the German people between 1933 and 1945 actually have been "Nazis"? Not to mention to compare "crimes" like, but the Germans did this and the Russians raped females etc. is relativism. It was after the war used on both sides to fuel agression. Nothing more. And that is very unprofessional. Its not about who was worse. History always tries to find out what was actually leading to it. How something happend. Why it happend is an entirely different question.
Another question. Do you believe every member of Russia was a stalinist? Or Communist? Should we not make every member of the former Sovietunion responsible for all the crimes that happend under the Soviet regime? No? Thought so.
Its easy to blame the loosers of history. Thats what the western nations did with the communistic area as well when the cold war ended and they even today use "its communism!" in the US to stop eveything that is more social. That is what everyone did for more then 40 years, blaming Germans for everything and making everyone some kind of die hard Nazi, before historians tried to actually really do some serious research - not just in Germany, but actually in the US and Russia too.
There are more and more critical historians out there today, young people that have no conection with that time what so ever and which try to actually see things in an unbiased manner. Asking questions, digging out facts not judgements.
Neither history nor people are really black an white, yes terrible things happen. All the time. And you can blame Germany for the wars they started. But its about the context that matters. Its not about blaming the GERMAN but the German politics of that time. There is a difference. How responsible are the people for such actions? That is an very difficult question. Some are for sure more responsible then others, some chose to fight Germany even, either passively (people hidding jews in their apartments for example) or even directly, by attacking the politics, like how Hans and Sophie Scholl did. And both, have been menbers of the Hitheryouth and League of German Girls, national socialistic groups. Both have been latter excuted for fighting the system. Curious if that fitts the typical picture about the Germans of that time. And there have been many moar citizend which actually didnt agreed with the system, but they keept silent, becaues of fear, which is if you think about it only natural. Would you, or anyone of us around here stand up in such an situation? While you have your children, and family at home? As I said in another post. Its very very easy to condemn people for what they did, or what they didnt do. But how about we just try to imagine how it is to be in such an situation?
If you really are interested in the topic, then I suggest to search for John Rabe on google. I will not provide you with an link now, if you are REALLY interested in the topic and actually care enough you will search for articles about him. He was a Nazi. He believed in the party and Hitler. Yet. He is called in China the German Buddha because he saved many chinese people form the japanese army despite the fact that Japan was on good terms with Germany. How does that work? Find it out by your self.
Sub-Human said:
I feel pity for Soviet soldiers.
I feel pity for every human beeing that has to suffer trough the conditions of war. Be it a German, Russian, Croat or Serbian. Becaues in such situations, like war, the common soldier or man has never a chance to decide anything. All he does is suffer.
I sadly do not remember the name of that German Wehrmacht General anymore, so you have to take my word for it. But there is a situation where the Germans attacked an Russian city in the winter of the early years of the war between the Sovietunion and Germany. The Russians had to leave the place so fast that they have been forced to leave their wounded soldiers behind or they would have risked to be surrounded. The German General was shocked about the conditions in the town and ordered all of his men to share their combat rations with the population and the wounded soldiers. When the Germans had to retreated latter, it was not that friendly. Some of the wounded German soldiers have been thrown in to the wather of the nearby river and left in the snow to freeze to death.
But there are as well stories about Russians soldiers which actually did something similar, feeling remorse or pity for the "other" side. But usually the war on the east front was not leaving much room for that, on both sides and thus such situations are rather rare. The war in the east was a totall war. Since the first day.
As said its not about to show who was worse. Its about to just make clear that a situation can be more then just black and white.
Makta said:
It's more of a "correcting wrong information" kind of thing. People should learn right and wrong and not listen to propaganda
well doing something like this isnt great either though:
Makta said:
Keep in mind i do love Russia and it's people but i really hope that the red plauge of the soviet Union never comes back!
It's a well known fact that Stalin was worse than Hitler but in recent year you can read about stuff like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
Because it seems that Mao was worse then Hitler and Stalin together, killing more people then both did eventually.
But, this kind of thinking is relativism. It is very disrespectful regarding the veterans and the many people which died in all of those events. The dead, dont care if it was Mao, Stalin or Hitler that killed them. It will not give the dead back to the relatives by declaring Stalin or Mao as worse. In the end all of them have been assholes.
The only sad part is that the big and small stalins, maos and hitlers still come and go. Maybe not here but in other places. Africa, or South America. Is it important who killed more in the end? Its always terrible.
Anyway ... this was about battle field 4 >_>
