Big BIG flaw in FO3 (imo)

Makenshi

Makenshi

Ahoy, ye salty dogs!
See, if I never went out of my Vault/Tribe and then I'm sent of a vital mission out there in the dangerous and unknown post-nuclear wasteland, I think I should go ahead with two things in mind:

1. Go to places which locations, at least, are known to me
2. Go to places that fit my misson, not any random place all of a sudden

I know the games are not linear in the "I can go where I choose" aspect, but it IS somewhat linear in the logical sense, as presented above.

That's why in Fallout 1, I don't wander from the blindly to south or west: I head east, to the known location of Vault 15, where I suppose I can find a water chip to save my people; lucky, there is a village on the way, so I stop to know more about the world... etc etc.





Same in Fallout 2: Klamath to find Vic, Den to find Vic, period. Then I have options: in Den I learn that there is Vault City to the east, the most likely place ever to find the Holy GECK, and Redding to the south, where I have absofuckinglutely nothing to do as far as I know. I think you know where I go, for consistence'n logic's sake.





The point here in this long post, as you can guess from the images, is: why the fuck did Beth (bar being a shitty company with shitty developers) put so much places that have ZERO meaning for the plot?

I mean, nothing against having lots of places with nothing directly tied to the plot (find daddy lol), but it's unbearable that they're not even in the middle of my route, like Shady Sands on the way to Vault 15 or Modoc in the way to Vault City.

Sure, I can force my suspension of disbelief or whatever it's called and go to Arefu deliver that girl's letter, and find Big Town on the way... but FUCK! The quest in Big Town is not to beat raiders and save a girl (Tandi anyone?), it's to beat SUPER MUTANTS EARLY GAME and save a girl (Red... what a fantastic name...). Since it's an unbeatable quest, it shouldn't even be located here.

[spoiler:f77430d75f]LOL fact: I cheated with the console to test how tough the Jailor Mutant inside GermantownHQ was... it ALWAYS took two shots from the FatMan; no matter how many times I loaded and tried, one shot was never enough - he always kept at leats 5 of those litthe red HP bars. How can a living being survive a nuclear blast inside a closed enviroment, let alone the building itself, is a joke the universe shares with no one... as Deckard Cain would say: "It's unfathomable", whatever this word means.[/spoiler:f77430d75f]

Every place I visited in Fallout was in search of a water chip, and after I found it, the remaing places were all related to discovering/dealing with the mutant threath. All quests in these places were sort of "well, since I'm here..."

Every place I visited in Fallout 2 was in search for the GECK, and after I get it, all remaining places are related to finding where the hell was my people taken. All quests everywhere where, again, "well, since I'm here".

[spoiler:f77430d75f]Honorable mention: New Reno is a place I barely explored in my first playthrough maaany years ago, because there was no real reason to hang around in such a big place full of crime since my character was a "samurai-tan guy" and only quested in other places to help people, get info and a bit of much needed $$ and equips. I just delivered moore's case, got the purificator for B.Hills mine and bye bye Sin City.[/spoiler:f77430d75f]

In Fallout 3, the moment I discover "dad" went to Galaxy News in DC, it's there that I have to go, one way or another, not necessarily deliver a letter to the oposite side or make fool's errands for a girl who thinks she still lives in the 50's (all is nice to ms. smile ¬¬) and wants to write a guide to the wasteland.





I wish that there was a LOT more plot driven reasons to go to places in Fallout 3, not just a bunch of explorable places with no real logical reason tobeing searched for, plot-wise speaking. AND that DC were between mid-game and end-game location, since it's so fucking dangerous. And don't let me start on the subway-labirinth bullshit...
 
I agree heavily with your statement, if only they were a group of people actually trying to fix that issue, it would make the game a little bit more tolerable.
 
Well, like often said, the story just sucked. Bethesda is just sending you straight over the map to some far away points, so you have to run through the other stuff (with quest marker), while the original games have led you through the world in a logical way from one point to the next. Bethesda wants, that the player explores on his own "here, we give you some main quests, but keep in mind that we would like it more, if you just run around the map and find all the other stuff".

Especially in Fallout 1 it's very clear and easy to find the water chip, you just have to visit every location in your way, talk to everyone and *read* what they have to tell you. The only way to not find the water chip is to not read what the npcs are saying.
 
It's because the plot in FO3 sucks.

In FO1&2, you're looking for objects that are vaguely familiar (at least by name) to pretty much every character you meet:
"Water chip? Sounds like pre-war technology, try looking for a Vault"
"Water chip? Sounds fancy, I bet the Brotherhood would know."
"Water chip? There's water merchants in the Hub, that's all I know..."
"GECK? There's a place called Gecko?"
"GECK? If it's from a Vault, you might wanna try Vault City"
etc etc.

Thus the games provided plenty of suggestions for your future trips. FO3, however, has you looking for a indescribable middle-aged man, so all of those mechanics go out the window, except the old "Oh yeah, I remember some guy, sure he went there [add quest marker]"
 
Makenshi said:
The point here in this long post, as you can guess from the images, is: why the fuck did Beth (bar being a shitty company with shitty developers) put so much places that have ZERO meaning for the plot?
Click to expand...

Short answer ? Because its a "sandbox" game neither Fallout 1 or 2 have been such so locations which are not tied to any quest have been seen as a waste of time and resources. In that Fallout is more similar to Planescape, Arcanum or Baldurs Gate if you want so

The long answer ? Play Oblivion, no really do and then read about Todd and his "ideas" about RPGs.

Fantasy, for us, is a knight on horseback running around and killing things
Todd Howard

Well, most good RPGs have action.
Pete Hines

However, with Morrowind I think we saw that our kind of game appeals to a wider audience, given the game’s success among more casual gamers who are neither "hardcore" nor "RPG geeks".
Gavin Carter

Here is a review about Oblivion by the RPG codex which is probably the most honest review you might find. Bethesda has to go with what they think the target audience wants. And thats a huge world with much to explore. If the content makes sense or not is a different question.
 
This reminds me of something that I was discussing with my friend the other day. The fact that even though you can play as however you want, you can't really just avoid your dad. You've got to find him. You can't just be like, "This is an excuse to get the hell out of this creepy underground crazytown", you have to be interested in finding dad. You get outside, learned Dad lied to you, and you can't just demand answers from him, you have to care about him. I can't just say 'fuck it' and make my own way in the world, that isn't cool to Fallout 3.
 
I just want to say I agree with your post, I think almost all of us do.


The reason however (as was previously noted) is that Fallout 3 is a sandbox game where the vast majority of people playing it just wanted to have a magical romp around a post-apoc wasteland, shooting down baddies and making ancient relics of cars explode into a mini mushroom cloud when you shoot them with a pistol.

People who actually want some rhyme to the reason in our games anymore seem to be a bit out of luck these days. I do appreciate this thread though, Fallout 1/2 deserves much praise in this regard. It is so enjoyable to be able to get that immersed in the story without it breaking where each town you run into gives you a logical next place to look with plenty of dialogue if you just take advantage of it.
 
[Lie] Fallout three is one of the best game of all time, and the other game cannot compare to it, you should all buy fallout three and support the all mighty Bethesda.
 
Another flaw is that you only get dialogue options about your father in places he's already been. You can't ask about your dad in Arefu, but you can in Megaton. Apparently you're partially psychic.

In Fallout 2 you could ask about the GECK everywhere and get dicked around by a variety of people in the process. Like the dude in Modoc who claims to know about the GECK and will tell you...if you help him. You can get him to chop off his pinky as part of the bargain.

In FO3, such an option would not exist. You'd probably only get GECK dialogue strings in Vault City and NCR.
 
[lie] Yes you can, I've seen it myself many times trust me, I'm a paladin, and you can trust that I'm a paladin because I'm a paladin.
 
lmao said:
Another flaw is that you only get dialogue options about your father in places he's already been. You can't ask about your dad in Arefu, but you can in Megaton. Apparently you're partially psychic.

In Fallout 2 you could ask about the GECK everywhere and get dicked around by a variety of people in the process. Like the dude in Modoc who claims to know about the GECK and will tell you...if you help him. You can get him to chop off his pinky as part of the bargain.

In FO3, such an option would not exist. You'd probably only get GECK dialogue strings in Vault City and NCR.
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought of that before, but now that you pointed this out, I gotta say that I agree 100%
I was just playing Fallout and got the "Wanderer" random encounter (the guy you can ask directions from etc.) and never even realized that he could help you a lot with finding the water chip (assuming that you are smart enough to listen to what he says and askin the right things)
Anyway, my point is that the originals had these subtle little things that may not help a tiniest bit, or they could be the last clue you needed with a quest, but the always made the games feel complete and the game world alive.
 
Oerjeke said:
[INTELLIGENCE] So you're saying Fallout 3 had a flaw?
Click to expand...

You know that I'm just pointing the one the pisses me the most, among the vast amount of big flaws, medium flaws and other flaws of variable proportions, all of which make Fallout 3 a flaw in itself.

You HAVE to know this.
 
I feel so sorry for Fallout 3 that I think I should lighten the burden it bears (itself, lol) by mentioning one big BIG score in the game: lasers

Man, those lasgun-style-laser-"projectiles" are sweet (if you guys don't know what a lasgun is, move your ass too the Warhammer 40.000 encyclopaedia, the Lexicanum, and bathe in wisdom about the dark grim future in which there is only war)

WH40k_DoW_IG_Lasguns.jpg


Edit: remember now, they're called laser beams. freaking sweet. so much better than star wars style pew pew :twisted:


Oerjeke said:
Yes, I know what you meant and I agree with you. I just wanted to be a smart-ass, that's all :D
Click to expand...

No problem, "we be gettin along just fine mahn" :D
 
DirkGently said:
This reminds me of something that I was discussing with my friend the other day. The fact that even though you can play as however you want, you can't really just avoid your dad. You've got to find him. You can't just be like, "This is an excuse to get the hell out of this creepy underground crazytown", you have to be interested in finding dad. You get outside, learned Dad lied to you, and you can't just demand answers from him, you have to care about him. I can't just say 'fuck it' and make my own way in the world, that isn't cool to Fallout 3.
Click to expand...
you know where the real fun starts ? With the huge inconsistency in the game when you dont follow "exactly" the path as how Bethesda wanted it. Really just try it. Start a new game and head directly for Rivet City without any other location to meet the guard infront of the door with the option to ask for Doc Lee (work mate of the midle aged guy that is your beloved dad ...). I think there are a few more examples as well. People see Fallout 3 as sandbox game and as non linear game but dont realise how f***** straight the storyline and quests are. If that is not linear then I dont know what.
 
Hi there, first time posting on this forum... The first time I played Fallout 3 I wandered around for 3 hours (real human time) before I found that damn megaton (grrr). The stupid subway maze infuriates me too (stupid ("randomized"dungeon maps coming over from Oblivion). The story is so-so compared to crappy games, but falls way short of it's predecessors.

I thought it was stupid how Bethesda made everything dirt ass crappy. I know if I lived in some post Apocalyptic dump, the least I'd do would be build a barricade with the random derbies (thus making my living area at least "livable") You want me to believe you are the total bad-ass of the wastes, well then why can't you clean that small pile of rubble over there, or fill in that puddle?... The super mutants are more organized than the average wastelander (they put their dismembered corpses in bags, in a pile, in the cornor, talk about classy)

Even the brotherhood are bad about that, you would expect them to tidy up a little; this is taking place hundreds of years (unless I am remembering wrong) after the bombs dropped, so no excueses (FO 1&2 were 50-100 years after only, or something like that; so some mess is expected). Also everything is burnt, or dirty is there no paint (because what? homemade paint is no longer feasible; only what, the Indians and Europeans, and others thousands of years before them, were making their own paint... and cleaning up the crap lying around making life better for themselves. All that doesn't matter anymore? ) :?

not to mention the terrible job they did on making the 3d models, and doing the textures, I mean really? most mods are better than the stuff they made. This is a "recent" game, there is no reason to make the models of such low quality (at least for the PC) as who doesn't have (or can't get) more than a few gigs of space for the game to install. If they had even 1GB of "unique" textures and models and npc's it would have made a much better game as it wouldn't all seem the same...Some of that data could have gone towards a superb story line, or at least something more interesting than the drivel they gave us.

Well that is my rant even though I was :falloutonline:
 
:|

Agent 9 said:
Hi there, first time posting on this forum... The first time I played Fallout 3 I wandered around for 3 hours (real human time) before I found that damn megaton (grrr).
Click to expand...

It is a 20 second walk from the entrance of Vault 101... the compass even gives you a quest marker that points toward it.

Agent 9 said:
The stupid subway maze infuriates me too (stupid ("randomized"dungeon maps coming over from Oblivion).
Click to expand...

The subways are not randomized. As far as I am aware, the Oblivion dungeons were not randomized either.

Agent 9 said:
I know if I lived in some post Apocalyptic dump, the least I'd do would be build a barricade with the random derbies (thus making my living area at least "livable") You want me to believe you are the total bad-ass of the wastes, well then why can't you clean that small pile of rubble over there, or fill in that puddle?
Click to expand...

? Pretty much everything in the game is constructed primarily of junk and rubble. Unless you were complaining about how you couldn't clean it up? I couldn't entirely tell... that would be like sweeping a dirt floor.

Agent 9 said:
Even the brotherhood are bad about that, you would expect them to tidy up a little; this is taking place hundreds of years (unless I am remembering wrong) after the bombs dropped, so no excueses (FO 1&2 were 50-100 years after only, or something like that; so some mess is expected). Also everything is burnt, or dirty is there no paint (because what? homemade paint is no longer feasible; only what, the Indians and Europeans, and others thousands of years before them, were making their own paint... and cleaning up the crap lying around making life better for themselves. All that doesn't matter anymore? ) :?
Click to expand...

The inside of the Brotherhood compound is considerably less 'dirty' than many other structures. I would suspect their primary mission isn't cleaning and home decor though. As for paint, I would guess there isn't a lot of material lying around to just make paint. Or maybe that's part of the big question of "Why hasn't anyone endeavoured to clean up the wasteland, repaint the houses and hang up some drapes on the windows?" Probably because it would be really boring from a player point of view if it didn't look like a wasteland anymore.

Timelines are as follows:
2077 - World destroyed
2161 - Fallout 1
2241 - Fallout 2
2277 - Fallout 3

Most logical inconsistencies of why cars explode, things aren't painted and Brotherhood members aren't sweeping around the compound can be explained with: It is a video game

I won't even get into some of the other stuff in this thread :|
 
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