Big Gun rebalance

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by laclongquan, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    We need to limit it usage somewhat or it will be too powerful in the early stages. Player can get access to fuel in New Reno (or farming RE around Redding).

    Most likely usage is the Metzger fight. So five shot (half a catridge) of it should not be enough for that one.

    Another likely candidate is the cleaning up Wanamingoes. But well, five shot will kill maybe two of them.
     
  2. Zorchar

    Zorchar Still Mildly Glowing

    264
    Jun 18, 2018
    You can alternatively have it use tons more regular ammo, causing the same damage. It is a "busted and leaking" flamer..
     
  3. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    Problem is: IIRC, the number of shots in a burst action affect total damage. It's why FNFAL FPFA version is so much more powerful than the normal version, since it burst a whole 30 rounds, triple that of the others.

    So if we raise a flamer's burst to 5 instead of 1, I think damage would be humongous. To compensate for that we would need to lower the gun's damage to about 1/4... it would be very demoralizing to see a gun with puny damage, I assure you.

    It's why I suggest a BG sniper gun based on Bozar model instead of Dragunov. SR's damage is not suitable for a weapon of BG class. Meanwhile, the big damage was cut down in half thanks to 14mm AP ammo.
     
  4. Zorchar

    Zorchar Still Mildly Glowing

    264
    Jun 18, 2018
    I think ammocost hook script can be used to overcome that problem.
    https://sfall.bgforge.net/hook-types/#ammocost

    The flamer is a good idea. Personally, I would love to see this weapon in the game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  5. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    I try modifying Bozar and add it to inventory as a quick and dirty DIY mod.

    At first it work okay, damage and every thing.

    But next time I start the game again, zero damage. Change to YAAM and other mod, still zero damage.

    Why? It worked the 1st time too, why the 2nd time it's not?
     
  6. Zorchar

    Zorchar Still Mildly Glowing

    264
    Jun 18, 2018
    The proto file probably got replaced with the original. Did u make it "read-only" after editing?
     
  7. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    That's a good idea. Let me test it again (since I monkeyed around with them alot after the bugs).

    Nope. Copypasta from the proto editor again and check: yep, readonly.

    Change the ammo minimod in ddrawsini but it doesnt not affect that zero damage. Vic does increase/decrease his damage since he use JHP while Miria use AP
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  8. Zorchar

    Zorchar Still Mildly Glowing

    264
    Jun 18, 2018
    Sorry that I can't help.

    BTW, you keep mixing two things together. If you want to figure out what's wrong with the Bozar edit, then you shouldn't also go messing around with the ammo mod.
    How come then you speak of Vic and Miria? They don't even have the sprites for big guns. Is it because you mean the ammo mod changes damage, regardless of the Bozar edit? Very confusing..
     
  9. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    Oh, that is because Vic use .44 with JHP ammo, so the changes in ammomod show quite well with his damage. Miria use 14mm pistol with 14mmAP.

    Modding is like eating crackers. You cant just mod one thing, right~
    ----
    ATM the bug manifest as this:

    PC and enemies deal "no damage" on everything. PC change any weapon and deal "no damage".
    Vic, Miria, and Sulik can deal damage with their .44 revolver, 14mm pistol, and combat knife respectively.

    (Ammomod setting is at 0, not activating any mode)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  10. Zorchar

    Zorchar Still Mildly Glowing

    264
    Jun 18, 2018
    I hate to be "that guy", but still, it's kinda hard to know what is your goal.

    If your goal is simply to make the bug go away, then simply reinstall the game. Obviously, you messin' with stuff had something to do with it.

    If your goal is to find out why the Bozar edit isn't working, then install a clean Fallout 2 version, and try from the beginning, without changing anything else.

    If your goal is to find out why the damage outcome u expect isn't the same as u actually get, then u must provide with much more data, such as mods made\installed, installed ammo mod, DRs and DTs of critters tested on etc'. Very hard to do..

    EDIT: Keep in mind - If u installed YAAM, then the weapon/ammo protos are not the same as vanilla. Therefore, changing the formula after installation will keep the installed protos, giving wierd results. Combining this with the fact that protos might get overwritten and other stuff.. it's just a mass to figure out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  11. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    Nice advice, particularly the last one. Probbably THAT is the one mess with my recent games.

    It's a head scratching problem when I want the no damage to go away.

    EDIT: Go past that town (Modoc) and enter VC. Then I pop out and check a RE. Now the enemies start making damage, some of them. Not my Chosen though. it might change in a few more state I think...

    I am thinking maybe I will just sell off all my weapons and buy anew. it's like the bug mark my weapons for specific treatment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  12. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    Now it show a few line
    "Friendly Fire disabled, damage set to 0"
    What's the actual fack?
     
  13. Zorchar

    Zorchar Still Mildly Glowing

    264
    Jun 18, 2018
    Were u checking if the bug went away on a SAVED GAME?!?

    The game totally marks your weapon. an item gets the stats of the proto it was created from, and stays that way, even after changing protos. This is also true if u add an item in the mapper on the floor, save the map, then change protos.

    u should really let go of your save game. In fact, just install a fresh version.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  14. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    I've restarted about 4 games recently.... i'd like to treat this one a bit longerrrrrrr T_T
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  15. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Jesus people. Item proto data is saved into the savegame. If you have a weapon in your inventory, then change proto stats, it won't work in that savegame. This is why we are using debug scripts and all that fancy jazz. You can't do modding on a live game and expect everything to work ...
     
  16. NovaRain

    NovaRain Casual Modder Modder

    Mar 10, 2007
    Savegame only has some attributes of items in the inventory saved as object flags, for example the loaded ammo type & current ammo count.
     
  17. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Tell that to the guy from a few months ago who made a weapons mod for ettu and wondered why his changes didn't work. I started a new game and there it was, everything working as intended.

    /Edit: It's about existing items. If the item was newly spawned, it'll work as intended.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  18. NovaRain

    NovaRain Casual Modder Modder

    Mar 10, 2007
    Dunno who's that guy, but I just modified the damage/range/mag size of the assault rifle proto with F2wedit, loaded my existing RP saves and the changes worked for the ones in my inventory.
     
  19. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    570
    Jan 11, 2008
    Okay, I've f12se that bozar into a flamer and it seem to work again, no more zero damage.

    Interessssssssssting~
    -------------
    On a side note, @Lexx, @NovaRain is it normal that town doctors heal take long time? I've been in Gecko and Lenny take 3 days to heal.

    Even if he's free, the time cost is quite substantial.
     
  20. Zorchar

    Zorchar Still Mildly Glowing

    264
    Jun 18, 2018
    Did u try it out on an unarmed critter? DT and DR = 0?
    maybe the critters' fire resistant isn't as high as their normal res.
    maybe the ammo protos are so messed up because of changes u made, they actually add DT or DR to critters. (like YAAM adds DT, I think)