Bill Hicks

TheGM said:
I'm live in the states and I don't even know who this fucking guy is?

was he regional act?

He is like a crappy version of George Carlin.
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Funny, most of Carlin's later material was inspired and derived from Hicks. Before the 90's, most of Carlin's humor was observational and tongue-in-cheek. Afterwards, the comedy surge of anti-status quo attacks was behind the Hicks flag.
 
Dopemine Cleric said:
Dutch stand up comedy? The sound of crickets will emerge from groups of Americans.
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And it should. It's very "for our eyes only". Dutch comedy isn't really intended for anyone but the Dutch.

It does free me of the burden of entitlement, tho' :P "Hah, you don't know Theo Maassen, you must be the ignoramus!"

Dopemine Cleric said:
American media and entertainment focuses more on individuals and their perceptions subjectively more than adhering to ideas. That is why Bill Hicks is popular. He does have cerebral content, but most of the time he's elevated to public awareness because of his "Kicking in doors" approach. Also, his material is best absorbed from his albums, which he directs as a composition of music, containing music, which he explains his thesis at the end of the act, punch-lines being crescendos.
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Wait, so he does do song? I couldn't get that clearly from anywhere. Dude really is similar to Dutch comedic tradition. I'd almost say he inspired it except for the fact that we did it first (oh no maybe Hicks ripped off Dutch cabaret?! Oh no he's just a Herman Finkers/Wim Sonneveld rip-off! World collapses!)

I'll try and get a hold of something. But the clips you showed me and I saw on Youtube has him telling me what he thinks and I don't like that. Real social commentary should be more subtle, not telling the audience what to think but showing them a beacon to where your thoughts are, and allowing them to accept or reject it. It is exactly the option to reject that most social commentators forget, and it makes their social comment meaningless - there is no content unless you can reject it. Social commentary is not a didactic artform.

Dopemine Cleric said:
Beyond that, cultural divides aside, Bill Hicks was known best as the "Comic Martyr", and praised for more or less attacking the status quo at the time in an almost suicidal manner. His personal beliefs, although strange compared to most, stood as a flag of the "FUCK YOU IM USING LOGIC FOR ONCE" movement in the U.S.
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Cultural divides aside? This is even more US-centric!

Dopemine Cleric said:
It's sad, but he's a hero over here. Talent of humor aside, his biographical content more than his actual material elevated him. A kind of Nietzsche knock-off figure if you must.
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But I don't like ol' N. Just call him "a kind of Dostoevskii figure" and I'll be satisfied.
 
Dopemine Cleric said:
TheGM said:
I'm live in the states and I don't even know who this fucking guy is?

was he regional act?

He is like a crappy version of George Carlin.
Click to expand...


Funny, most of Carlin's later material was inspired and derived from Hicks. Before the 90's, most of Carlin's humor was observational and tongue-in-cheek. Afterwards, the comedy surge of anti-status quo attacks was behind the Hicks flag.
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Kay Professor.

Well I guess Carlin stole his gimmick tunred it into Gumpy old Carlin and didn't suck at it.
 
Yeah, In England he was praised for the movement he was starting in the U.S.. It is US-centric, but crossed cultural divides at the same time. A semi-paradox when thinking conservatively about the interests of one's own country.

But at the same time, you do have "Roll my dutch penis all over the threshold" attitude that I haven't seen from you before. I don't blame you, Americans do it all the time. Hell, that's an understatement.



*Edit*

Btw, I'm not trying to wave the Bill Hicks flag in front of of other comedians. George Carlin to me will always be for me personally funnier and more likable than Hicks.


I would call Hicks an "acquired taste". But his roll in the evolution of popular American comedy is obvious.
 
Dopemine Cleric said:
Yeah, In England he was praised for the movement he was starting in the U.S.. It is US-centric, but crossed cultural divides at the same time. A semi-paradox when thinking conservatively about the interests of one's own country conservatively.
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Angle-Saxon culture is like one. Man. One. Don't tell the Brits that, tho'

Dopemine Cleric said:
But at the same time, you do have "Roll my dutch penis all over the threshold" attitude that I haven't seen from you before. I don't blame you, Americans do it all the time. Hell, that's an understatement.
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I wish I could comment on that but I have no idea what rolling "my dutch penis all over the threshold" is supposed to entail.
 
Your penis figuratively as your opinions and observation containing the intellectual value of Dutchie comic material over that of other countries.

From your description of Dutch entertainment, It seems like thats what it's suppose to be.

I don't know, maybe one day I'll be enlightened from the all illuminating glow of the dutch penis.

I'm going to spend my night researching Dutch comedy. Thanks Kharn for ruining my evening. "In a good way".
 
Dude sure does like saying Dutch Penis.

I like the Word Pineapple.

Pineapple tee hee tee.
 
Dopemine Cleric said:
Your penis figuratively as your opinions and observation containing the intellectual value of Dutchie comic material over that of other countries.
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Nah, just juxtaposing it with TG's reaction to make a point - especially considering a lot of what Hicks is about is recognisable in the Dutch cabaret-tradition (as Wikipedia puts it: Dutch cabaret is a sort of stand-up comedy often lasting for an hour or two, which has a storyline or theme, and can include songs, music and poetry as opposed to purely stand-up comedy), which I think you guessed correctly.

Dutch comedy really isn't for most so I wouldn't advise chasing after it. It's not "superior" in any overarching way, it often lacks laughs and is often way too sour or too faux-intellectual - overshooting its own mark. As a genre, Dutch stand-up has a more intellectual tradition, tho'.

I think the most appeal/easiest for foreigners to get to would be Theo Maassen (kinda Hicks-like but more subdued - Maassen actually does not do songs, which is really unusual for Dutch comedians) or Hans Teeuwen (energetic, absurdist and offensive). I think this response shows how hard it can be to get in the groove with the Dutch tone of humour, especially Teeuwen's absurdist's tone, Nostradamus isn't exactly one of his more superficially appealing pieces - especially translated.
 
Dutch Penis Dutch Penis Dutch Penis....

Shit....

Anyways, late response.

Brother None said:
I'll try and get a hold of something. But the clips you showed me and I saw on Youtube has him telling me what he thinks and I don't like that. Real social commentary should be more subtle, not telling the audience what to think but showing them a beacon to where your thoughts are, and allowing them to accept or reject it. It is exactly the option to reject that most social commentators forget, and it makes their social comment meaningless - there is no content unless you can reject it. Social commentary is not a didactic artform.
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Social commentary has a history of being subtle, right, but that doesn't mean it "Has" to be. {US-Centric agian} Those methods don't work here in the U.S.. No artist or comedian will ever be noticed for subtlety in this grand country of ours. "Kicking in doors" Is a way of "Waking up peoples thought processes" here in the states. Thats why vulgarity and punkish material is prevalent here. Anything not falmboyant enough will just fade into the ocean of millions of aspiring artists and marketed artforms.

Watch the Diet-Coke bit by him. Kinda explains my point. Like I said, it's an aquired taste because the holes from Hick's work need to be filled by the observer.

*Edit* And, you make an interesting point by observing that Dutch comedy is for Dutchies. Bill Hicks is popular here because it is a form of "American"comedy. In no way is his comedy universal. Alot of his ideas point toward a goal of Universal thinking, which is most admired by the Brits, but still stem from being something out of the states. If you lived here, you would understand his appeal like I would like Dutchie material if I was raised there.
 
Dopemine Cleric said:
Social commentary has a history of being subtle, right, but that doesn't mean it "Has" to be.
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I started my explanation with "and I don't like that", dude. I realise it works better for some people. It just doesn't appeal to me.

Dopemine Cleric said:
"Kicking in doors"
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Open doors.

Dopemine Cleric said:
Is a way of "Waking up peoples thought processes" here in the states. Thats why vulgarity and punkish material is prevalent here. Anything not falmboyant enough will just fade into the ocean of millions of aspiring artists and marketed artforms.

Watch the Diet-Coke bit by him. Kinda explains my point. Like I said, it's an aquired taste because the holes from Hick's work need to be filled by the observer.
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Oui oui. Point taken.

Making points explicitly isn't unknown to Dutch comedians. See Hans Teeuwen at the Meiden van Halal

Also you people keep replying while I'm still editing my previous post.
 
Brother None said:
I started my explanation with "and I don't like that", dude. I realise it works better for some people. It just doesn't appeal to me.


Open doors.





Oui oui. Point taken.

Making points explicitly isn't unknown to Dutch comedians. See Hans Teeuwen at the Meiden van Halal

Also you people keep replying while I'm still editing my previous post.
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1. Understood.

2.My error

3.Orly?

4. GODDAMNIT IM EDITING TOO ARRRGGGGG
 
Dopemine Cleric said:
And, you make an interesting point by observing that Dutch comedy is for Dutchies. Bill Hicks is popular here because it is a form of "American"comedy. In no way is his comedy universal. Alot of his ideas point toward a goal of Universal thinking, which is most admired by the Brits, but still stem from being something out of the states. If you lived here, you would understand his appeal like I would like Dutchie material if I was raised there.
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*punches Dope*

Dude, that was the whole reason I brought up Dutch comedy, to make a point to TG about specific local importance to culture satire can have without being cross-border necessarily.

So yes, that was what I was saying.
 
My CPU is a neural net processor; A learning computer.

*Sparks*

Yeah, I have a habit of talking to myself while talking to someone else. I'm alittle slow, and I'm also dyslexic.

So yes thats what you were saying.

Punch me again, that kinda felt good. (Saying this so you can end the conversation, If you want to.)


*edit* actually, I changed my mind. Fuck you for punching me! :P
 
I remember seeing Eddie Murphy's "Raw" and "Delerious" many years ago and that is how I discovered stand up comedy.

To make a long story short I grew more and more fond of the stand up comedy as an entertainment form and started watching more and more, both live and on DVDs etc.

I discovered Bill Hicks by listening to other comedians who claimed he was great and how he had inspired them (like Richard Pryor inspired Eddie Murphy), so subsequently I got hold of a DVD with one of his shows. (this is a great way to discover new (old) music, books, games, stand up comedy, movies etc - follow what you like and then look up what the ones you like like)

My impression is that he ended up as an idol to quite a few of his peers and so has gone on to achieve cult status in a way. (This status is of course strengthened by his untimely demise)

Personally I like the guy a lot, but he is not a favourite of mine.
 
Daimyo said:
Personally I like the guy a lot, but he is not a favourite of mine.
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That's exactly what I would say. I think George Carlin did social commentary way better and funnier than Hicks. He was a master of wording and timing. Still I can somewhat see, even living far from US, how Hicks was truly NEEDED at that time.. Comedians like him and Carlin are to continue to be needed, even more-so these days I think.
 
In the US, Hicks is to comedy what JFK is to politics. Because he died tragically, he's been elevated to a status his actual accomplishments can't sustain. Hicks was good - a real comedian's comedian - but he's not the Second Coming. He was good enough that I feel no need to criticize him at all beyond what I've already said, and I wouldn't criticize anyone for liking him.

Because if I did they'd get mad. 8-)
 
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