Can a game's fanbase/over exposure ruin the game itself?

can a bad fanbase ruin a good game?

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    22
Arnust said:
Oops, true. I knew i was forgetting someone.
The In Memoriam in the finale of his DaS3 LP ;-;
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I take ENB over those others any day. He's the original Souls loremonger, and he still makes the best Souls videos. It's sad to see his interest dwindling, but it's hardly surprising. It's clear that he loves Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 so much that he will always be always be overly critical of any sequels. I recognize that from myself when I love something so deeply. And seeing as how he's basically dedicated the last few years of his life to the Souls series, I'd be surprised if he wasn't growing a little sick of it. It was a joy to watch him play DaS 3 blindly while playing it for the first time, always being just one step ahead of him, though. I was so anxiously waiting for him to get to you-know-where and see his reaction. I was also looking forward to the lore videos, but looks like there won't be any for a long while.

I used to enjoy Vaati's videos, but it feels like he's only re-hashing stuff and overproducing for effect. ENB doesn't need all that flair, he can just speak passionately for an hour and it's awesome.
 
aenemic said:
I take ENB over those others any day. He's the original Souls loremonger, and he still makes the best Souls videos. It's sad to see his interest dwindling, but it's hardly surprising. It's clear that he loves Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 so much that he will always be always be overly critical of any sequels. I recognize that from myself when I love something so deeply. And seeing as how he's basically dedicated the last few years of his life to the Souls series, I'd be surprised if he wasn't growing a little sick of it. It was a joy to watch him play DaS 3 blindly while playing it for the first time, always being just one step ahead of him, though. I was so anxiously waiting for him to get to you-know-where and see his reaction. I was also looking forward to the lore videos, but looks like there won't be any for a long while.

I used to enjoy Vaati's videos, but it feels like he's only re-hashing stuff and overproducing for effect. ENB doesn't need all that flair, he can just speak passionately for an hour and it's awesome.
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He talked about it in one of his Poison Arrow podcast. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 was such a breath of fresh air (and unfortunately I didn't get on the earlier days release wagon to feel the pain and glory with them). Back in those days, 'Git Gud' was meant to be a cheering phrase, and people are okay with others using summons and stuffs. Nowadays, though, ENB shared on his Twitter a guy disliking one of his DaS3 video simply because he use summons.
That's why I'm really looking forward to what FromSoft have next up in their sleeves. We still have DLCs for Dark Souls 3 coming, and unlike with Bethesda, I believe From will deliver (The Old Hunters for Bloodborne was so awesome).
On top of that, ENB was also working on a game. He's kind of silent about it nowadays, but I'm looking forward to give him some of my money to support his future endeavor.

Huh, guess that also confirmed this thread need a 5th option: Yes and No.
 
aenemic said:
I take ENB over those others any day. He's the original Souls loremonger, and he still makes the best Souls videos. It's sad to see his interest dwindling, but it's hardly surprising. It's clear that he loves Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 so much that he will always be always be overly critical of any sequels. I recognize that from myself when I love something so deeply. And seeing as how he's basically dedicated the last few years of his life to the Souls series, I'd be surprised if he wasn't growing a little sick of it. It was a joy to watch him play DaS 3 blindly while playing it for the first time, always being just one step ahead of him, though. I was so anxiously waiting for him to get to you-know-where and see his reaction. I was also looking forward to the lore videos, but looks like there won't be any for a long while.

I used to enjoy Vaati's videos, but it feels like he's only re-hashing stuff and overproducing for effect. ENB doesn't need all that flair, he can just speak passionately for an hour and it's awesome.
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The Unt. G area reaction was awesome, he spent a whole 1,5 chapters there.
And i like Vaati almost solely for the Dark Souls 1 content, dat Prepare to Cry trailer ♥
 
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Oh, and about YouTubers and Dark Souls, did anyone watch MATN play it, complain constantly for a while and get bored of it in a special of his?
Odd to see that from him, it's like... -sniff- a casul!?
 
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Arnust said:
Oh, and about YouTubers and Dark Souls, did anyone watch MATN play it, complain constantly for a while and get bored of it in a special of his?
Odd to see that from him, it's like... -sniff- a casul!?
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Well, the kindle part I understand, the game really could've fucking told the player that they can't kindle a fire without the secret rite right from the start before they waste humanity.
 
If a game is good the fanbase can be happily ignored. It's when a game sucks that the idiots who like it come out in force to defend it.
 
Mr Fish said:
Well, the kindle part I understand, the game really could've fucking told the player that they can't kindle a fire without the secret rite right from the start before they waste humanity.
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You can kindle a "Level 1"-5 Estus bonfire to get to "Level 2"-10 Estus. If you try kindling further, i recall that the prompt reads: "You require the secret rite".
It can pop up on loading screens, too
Usually, that's the only extra humanity you should waste by the game's fault.
Extra humanities on your counter can be recovered like souls anyway, and give some nice boosts to stats, especially Curse resis and the chance to get drops.
By the way, 15/20 estus is only needed on mid-endgame, and that is the time when the game tells you to go past the area where it is located, which can be accesed and completed in the early game anyway.
AND actually, now that i remember, the second NPC you meet right at the start, if you talk to him and join his covenant, and then bribe him, he openly tells you that he and his buds are going to recover the Rite, that acts somehow like a Holy Grail of their religion, where it is and vaguely what it does.
Reading item descriptions and talking to NPC's really is the way the game tells you where to go, why, what happens/ed there and often reward you for doing so.
In conclusion, if you play it like Skyrim, not listening to NPC's, just spamming the attack button on every enemy on combat and hoping the game to babysit you...
It's natural that you have a bad time

By the way, i Ctrl C +Ctrl V from my reply to an exact same YouTube comment, hope it makes it less personal xD
 
Mr Fish said:
Well, the kindle part I understand, the game really could've fucking told the player that they can't kindle a fire without the secret rite right from the start before they waste humanity.
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You need the game to hold your hand? :P Joking aside, I know it's been said again and again, but it's those little things that made discovering the game so fun. Learning how things worked by trial and error. But also, realizing that wasting items, humanity and souls, and losing thousands upon thousands of souls by dying, is ok. It's not a big deal. Once you get over that, everything will seem much less frustrating.
 
Well, I gotta disagree with whoever you copy pasted then, cause just cause NPC's start blabbling on about something it doesn't mean that you automatically know what that is. It's not like you can go back in their dialogue and talk with them about prior topics so what if you talk to the guy before you try to kindle? What if you don't know what the "rite of passage" is and so your brain doesn't store it as important data? And this is right near the start of the game, how many loading screens will the player have seen by then? What if the one about kindling didn't pop up? And extra humanities can be recovered, yes. But we're talking early game here when the player is going in blind trying to learn the ropes, that extra humanity is going to be lost.

The game should inform the player about the rite of passage before they waste two humanity, it didn't.

(with only this comment as a context) That fucker sounds like the kind of Dark Souls player I can't stand; the smug condescending asshat who thinks that just cause he's got it figured out it means that everyone should have it figured out and if not then you're nothing but a dumb-dumb who should go back to Skyrim.

I didn't play it like Skyrim and I still wasted 2 humanity trying to kindle the fucking thing. It wouldn't be that difficult to simply give a prompt the first time you try to kindle (while hollowed or human) the game pops up with that message and if you try to do it anyway and waste 2 humanities then that's on you at that point. I love Dark Souls but I can't stand people like this who make shitty excuses for some of its flaws and try to ridicule others when they bring up their issues about the game.
 
Mr Fish said:
Well, I gotta disagree with whoever you copy pasted then, cause just cause NPC's start blabbling on about something it doesn't mean that you automatically know what that is. It's not like you can go back in their dialogue and talk with them about prior topics so what if you talk to the guy before you try to kindle? What if you don't know what the "rite of passage" is and so your brain doesn't store it as important data? And this is right near the start of the game, how many loading screens will the player have seen by then? What if the one about kindling didn't pop up? And extra humanities can be recovered, yes. But we're talking early game here when the player is going in blind trying to learn the ropes, that extra humanity is going to be lost.

The game should inform the player about the rite of passage before they waste two humanity, it didn't.

(with only this comment as a context) That fucker sounds like the kind of Dark Souls player I can't stand; the smug condescending asshat who thinks that just cause he's got it figured out it means that everyone should have it figured out and if not then you're nothing but a dumb-dumb who should go back to Skyrim.

I didn't play it like Skyrim and I still wasted 2 humanity trying to kindle the fucking thing. It wouldn't be that difficult to simply give a prompt the first time you try to kindle (while hollowed or human) the game pops up with that message and if you try to do it anyway and waste 2 humanities then that's on you at that point. I love Dark Souls but I can't stand people like this who make shitty excuses for some of its flaws and try to ridicule others when they bring up their issues about the game.
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I phrased it wrong, i repeated my own comment.
:hide:
In no means i tried (purposefully) to ridicule anybody, i was mentioning as many ways they (try?) tell you this information without recurring to a popup, taking away from you the glorious AAAAAH moment you get so many times in this games.

5:20 - 5:35 :P

Edit: Sorry about the attitude, this comment on spanish would be super friendly and passive, it's hard to get the language registers right :sad:
 
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Mr Fish said:
Well, I gotta disagree with whoever you copy pasted then, cause just cause NPC's start blabbling on about something it doesn't mean that you automatically know what that is. It's not like you can go back in their dialogue and talk with them about prior topics so what if you talk to the guy before you try to kindle? What if you don't know what the "rite of passage" is and so your brain doesn't store it as important data? And this is right near the start of the game, how many loading screens will the player have seen by then? What if the one about kindling didn't pop up? And extra humanities can be recovered, yes. But we're talking early game here when the player is going in blind trying to learn the ropes, that extra humanity is going to be lost.

The game should inform the player about the rite of passage before they waste two humanity, it didn't.

(with only this comment as a context) That fucker sounds like the kind of Dark Souls player I can't stand; the smug condescending asshat who thinks that just cause he's got it figured out it means that everyone should have it figured out and if not then you're nothing but a dumb-dumb who should go back to Skyrim.

I didn't play it like Skyrim and I still wasted 2 humanity trying to kindle the fucking thing. It wouldn't be that difficult to simply give a prompt the first time you try to kindle (while hollowed or human) the game pops up with that message and if you try to do it anyway and waste 2 humanities then that's on you at that point. I love Dark Souls but I can't stand people like this who make shitty excuses for some of its flaws and try to ridicule others when they bring up their issues about the game.
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I agree about the condescending attitude, which is part of why I brought up the Souls series in this thread to begin with. The fanbase if full of idiots and elitists.

There's a huge difference between being a condescending prick and pointing out why you like parts of a game that others don't like, however. And personally, I don't see it at all as a flaw that the game doesn't tell you these things in some sort of tutorial or hint pop-up. It might seem trivial, but it's part of the design philosophy of the game. It runs through every little thing in the game. I had a great time playing it blind because I got to make a lot of mistakes and learn that way. And when I point these things out, I try to encourage people to see it from that perspective. It's not about telling someone that they're wrong, or that I'm better and they need to "git gud", in the end I just want people to get over some of the frustrations so that they can enjoy the game. But people enjoy different things, and there's no real right or wrong. One of the best things about the Souls games is that they can be played in so many different ways. And by trial and error, you find out how you want to play the game. You say you wasted two humanity. I say you figured out how something works, and in the process you took human form and might just learn several new things: you might discover a summoning sign you didn't see before, your drop chance increases so you might get a new item from an enemy, you might get invaded for the first time, etc. You're supposed to be in this cloud of uncertainty, always weighing your options and considering if a risk is worth taking or not.
 
Actually, I played Dark Souls way after it was released so I saw no summon signs and didn't even know that they existed or how to use them. Same thing with getting invaded, wasn't until I was down in the lava section of the game that someone finally decided to invade me while in human form. And as to increased drop rate? I didn't realize that was a thing until I looked up what Humanity did on the wiki.

So no, all I did was waste two humanity. That's it. Nothing else. Maybe I got an additional Hollow Shield or whatever, whoop whoop...

I'm fine with a game being vague about things and punishing the player for making mistakes and I love finding out about little secrets but there comes a point when a game is just vague for the sake of being vague and at that point I feel compelled to just alt+tab out to read up on the wiki and I personally don't think that is good game design.

IMO Dark Souls did some of those things right and it also did some of those things really badly.

There's other things that could've been added or been more plentiful of to add to that "cloud of uncertainty" (more kinds of mimics, more traps, more puzzles), I don't think that not informing the player of base game mechanics adds to that. It just makes it irritating aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I've alt+tabbed again to wiki the damn thing. And it ain't the only thing I had to alt+tab to figure out either.

So I agree up to a point, but everything has a line that can be crossed and Dark Souls did just that for me several times when it came to informing me about base game mechanics. Ultimately I did enjoy the game though, a lot. And while I don't want a tutorial that spoonfeeds you information I at the very least think that the game could've been more descriptive about certain things. One of the worst parts is wasting souls on stats you don't know if you'll need or not only to find out that you gimped yourself. (Didn't happen to me as I focused on just going Zweihander + heavy shield)

On a completely different note, I blocked more than I rolled. The only time I rolled was in boss fights where I literally had to in order to beat the boss. Could never get the hang of rolling without enemies fucking me up.
 
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I totally agree dark souls is way to vague imo. I'm fine with not handholding the player,but dark souls takes vagueness to a ridiculous degree.
 
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