Canadians

[Ugly John]

Quebekers are the terms used by the rest of Canada to describe the people from Québec.

I am by definition a quebeker, but I AM CANADIAN! ...sorry couldn't resist.

You have french canadians pretty much in every province, but in quebec we just call ourselves Canadians.

 

[welsh]

A lot of this US bashing is bullshit. People are blaming the US for things that either their countries have done before, or thing that their country benefits from. Sure the US does evil things but so do a lot of countries.

The beauty of that though, is that it allows people to point the finger at someone else and not look at themselves. Blame the US for all that is evil in the world.

Bah! Stupid and irresponsible.
But I posted this on the Saddam on Trial thread.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7799&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

THat said, we really got to vote that asshole Bush out of office.

 

[Paladin Solo]

Nope, but it warms my heart to see that you care so much about my opinion in Fox polls

Who said I cared? I don't care about you, or your opinions, just was wondering if your anti-American feelings led you to any recent polls.

And I’ve see a lot of American bullshit in the past few years, so?

Ever care to understand why you see so much of this bullshit, and not any ignorance from your POV? Sure, you could say the same about me, but at least I tried to understand the other side, before I got so fucking tired of them having lack of understanding on their behalf.

Dont hate the world, hate yourself

I could give the same advice to you, or how about, killing yourself, that might sovle things much faster you know?

Fox.... no comment

Blind anti-American.... no comment

 

[welsh]

No, actually Paladin- you shouldn't watch Fox. Like crack, it's not good for you brain.

 

[Bradylama]

I agree. I usually levitate to the conservative side of arguments, but at least CNN doesn't claim it's something it's not. "Fair and Balanced" my ass.

 

[John Uskglass]

How about, if it weren't for American protection Israel would've long had to cease their aggressive and idiotic stance towards Palestinians a long time ago.
"What, Palestinians? Ah, who cares about them, I mean.....look at those Israelis....remember WW2?"
ALso nice here is that the article refers to Israelis as Jews, probably to emphasize the whole "They were killed by the millions! Pity them!" bit.

They would've stopped exsisting with the 6 day war and yet another tragic chapter of Jewish history would have been written by survivors. Youre point=non exsistant

Indeed. Although it should be noted that this, again, was not benevolence, but the will to prevent the communists from gaining the upper hand.

The reason behind it is inconsequential. The result is what matters.

UN protection, if you'd please.

Do you honestly believe that the UN had a chance without American help? Hell, when we where there they where about to evacuate Pusan as it was.

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! WHat complete and utter ignorance! Yeah, you know, there was no other country. The USA did it all by themselves....
BWAHAHAHH!!

We where the ones that wanted to go in, we put in the vast majority of troops, we had the air force....it was us, face it.

With an excuse that held no grounds. Instead of telling the people exactly why you were invading Iraq, or trying to convince them with "Saddam is evil" speeches, you tried to play the fears of the post-9/11 Americans to get them to approve of invasion. And now that you're there you ignore that completely, and you're also failing in rebuilding the country. Weeee. GO USA!

Failing in rebuilding is an opinion, and a jack shit one at that, and there where alt of Saddam is evil speeches......WMD was the main reason, granted, but one of a dozen.

Yep, although not by yourselves, and you did turn it into a political shithole, meaning that the USA basically only has control of two or three cities. GO USA!

Not by ourselves?

By that definition, Updike did'nt write Rabbit is Rich 'cause someone wrote that stuff at the beggining about where to put it in a library.

It was us, we where the movers, we put the troops there, yadayadayada....

You dare to speak of Central America? YOU DARE? HAH!
Sure, no, that whole Chili thing was nothing...noooo.....

Again, I find the lack of perspective distressing. Weve put ooogles of money in central and south America and have done everything we can to keep the commies out.

Was it all for humanitarian reasons? Hell no. But we did good.

Yeah, sure, let's completely forget all sorts of historical perspective. To give it some historical perspective:
During these 230 years the USA has only helped when it would serve their own interest. Moreover, it only started to help when the Germans tried to get the Mexicans to invade the USA during World War 2. Here it destroyed one side in favor of the other side, hurray, there were no oppressed people to free.
Afterwards the USA withdrew unto its solitary continent, and did nothing until attacked in World War 2. At that point they helped wipe out the Hitler regime and the Japanese empire, but they did so out of self-defense, not out of benevolence. The Canadians, by the way, were also fighting, and the French were occupied so they couldn't fight.
And, moreover, having freed these peoples, they gave up about half of them to Stalin to satisfy the Stalinist beast. GO USA!
Then they again looked after themselves through a lot of different actions, trying to stop socialism and communism wherever it arose, and installing the odd dictator, while overthrowing some regimes as well.

1) The Free French fought heroically, no matter if Fox New or CNN is writing it,
2) I bet you still can't disagrre that America HAS freed more people over the last 230 years then any other power in history cause it's true, hell, we've even done it for you
3) that whole "giving into the Stalinist beast" shtick is true, but tired, and there wasn’t anything else to do.

Haha. Right. This man seems to be unable to see the fact that a lot of people dislike the USA BECAUSE they know the facts. Stupid biased news source.

Sander, do you honestly think there has ever been a dominant empire in the world as benevolent as the US?

 

[Bradylama]

I doubt the Israelis really needed our help. They defeated modern armies on the day of their founding with obsolete weapons. The Israelis had been fighting for their very survival up until 1973 (when they became a nuclear power).

Though, they may not have become a nuclear power without American assistance. In any case, I think their tenacity really speaks for itself.

 

[Sovz]

until 1973 (when they became a nuclear power).

Shhhhh. you are not supposed to talk about it, is a secret


And as for you Solo, I honestly couldn’t care less about US or their retarded citizens. If your government would only keep its nose in their own business instead of policing the world like a school bully I would even like ‘em. I don’t hate America or Americans as you try to imply, I simply dislike their politics and politicians, that’s all. Like most people in the world, each minds his own business, it’s when you try and advice others on how they should do things, things tend to become ugly.

 

[Bradylama]

Well, the thing is that we are minding our own business. World business is American business, and any threat to global stability needs to be squelched if America wants to remain on top, and the Europeans want to live quiet lives.

 

[John Uskglass]

And as for you Solo, I honestly couldn’t care less about US or their retarded citizens. If your government would only keep its nose in their own business instead of policing the world like a school bully I would even like ‘em. I don’t hate America or Americans as you try to imply, I simply dislike their politics and politicians, that’s all. Like most people in the world, each minds his own business, it’s when you try and advice others on how they should do things, things tend to become ugly.

It's the very nature of human relationships. A dominant power attempts to retain dominance. You Euros want our power just as much as we wanted it from you when you had it. There's no diffirence. We tried to pretend we where better then that, but we've turned a dominance in projectiable power into a force that does as much good as stabalization.

 

[KillaKilla]

By Bill O'Reilly

End of discussion.

Though the arguments presented towards/against the response is interesting.

EDITed for coding

 

[Paladin Solo]

The same retarded citizens who introduced computers? The same retarded citizens who linked their computers into a network? The same retarded citizens who researched and/or advanced medicines, genetics, physics, theories, electronics? The same retarded citizens who landed men on the moon? The same retarded citizens who discovered hundreds if not thousands of stars, planets, systems, galaxies, etc, etc...

Sovz, your ignorance shows much more than anyone's here, it fucking glows, just like your own stupidity and lack of understanding. For one, any intelligent person would know, that playing the neutralitity game, if you're a world power, doesn't work. Why? Study your fucking history your ignorant piece of shit. World War 2? Ring any bells moron? You know, as much as I love conservatism, I see my stupidity in lowering myself to your level Sovz. Fuck Fox News, I'm turning back to seeing hatred, just so I can now say I no longer am like you. I don't want you to like me Sovz, I'd much rather be pleased if I were fighting you. I don't care who hates my government and/or it's political leaders, it's people who simply hate Americans because we're Americans. I've asked numerous people to explain their hatred and/or disliking to our government, and various people from not only this site, have stated respectable reasons, but the majority of people who hate us, that I've encountered anyhow, don't know why sometimes. And don't try and play the innocent, "I only hate your government" game when you're calling our citizens retarded you redundant child. And I strongly doubt that most people mind their own business in this world. Even if you meant nations. I know I, my countrymen, and my country are not perfect. We are far from. But that wasn't my argument. My argument was that some people who play the hate game, don't even have a valid reason, or they present hypocritical ones. I once asked someone why they hated America, they replied "that's easy, because you're Americans."

 

[Sovz]

LOL Solo, I must have struck your G-Spot, because you are screaming like a 20$ hooker.

Get it into your thick redneck skull, I don’t care about what you think about me, my country or my political views.

How retarded are you? To get upset by something written in some internet forum, dear god, your stupidity really amazes me.

Dude seriously, just chill out.

 

[Ashmo]

Uhm, one word: CERN.

Anyway. I think arguments like what our dear Solo is attempting are a bit pointless because we'd eventually create a spiral of argumentation leading to somewhere like"Oh, yeah? But the Spanish discovered North America!" or "So? The Romans invented the Christian world religion" or whatever. It's pointless. And it's no different from a "my dog kicks your dog's ass" line of statements.

Patriotism is not an excuse for ignorance. Even patriots can accept the flaws of their country of birth.

That you love something doesn't mean it is perfect. I love certain kinds of music, yet it would be retarded to claim they are superior to everything else and that nothing else is better and that there's only good bands doing that kind of music. Heck, most Gothic/Metal/DarkPop bands suck ass. Most bands of any genre do. That doesn't mean the genre is worse than, say, Hip Hop or Classics (not every Concierto was done by a great artist).

I think Germans are no different. We do not admit patriotism because we mistake it for nationalism, which for us is synonymous with nazi-ism. However I know enough people who, while not stating that Germany is superior, state every other country was inferior. More importantly, I know enough people who love Germany as a whole but do not publically state tho because they fear to be mistaken for the previously mentioned kind: ignorant nationalists.
The latter is patriotism, the former is what most people call patriotism.
You are not patriotic by saying your country is great, you are ignorant.

Germany had its rock bottom moments in history (yes, I remember WW2, yes, I fell sorry for the people who died during the Third Reich, but no, I do not think the German people at that time were evil and that it or its ascendants should be ashamed -- I'm not justifying anything, I'm just saying the vast majority of the people who lived during that time didn't do anything wrong and those born later didn't have anything to do with the whole mess in the first place), but I feel comfortable being German, I like the language (and like what you can do with it) and I kinda like what's left of our severly violated national anthem (whoever thought it was a good idea to cut two thirds of it anyway?), also, I support the ideals our nation stands for, nevermind the idiotic means it uses to accomplish them (*cough* beuarocracy, censorship, capitalism *cough*).
That is a moderate level of patriotism.

What's dangerous is blind patriotism of the "I'd die for my country" type. These days you don't die for any ideals or greater thing anymore. You die for capitalism. No war is waged without the industry in mind and nobody would be stupid enough to start a war if it wouldn't help the economy or bring any monetary benefits.
The only exception is terrorism, but that's not exactly a good way to fight for your ideals and if you are asked to fight that way, it is very likely you are not fighting for the ideals you really want but for the narrow-minded brainfart you think of as a solution to your problems.

If you don't give any thought to the ideals you support, you are not a patriot but a mindless fanboi cheering for "his" team.


Anyway. I think the majority of the world civilisation which has an oppinion on foreign politics either hates or dislikes America. That is not related to the American ideals -- heck, everyone likes to be free, right? -- but to the outward appearance of the nation as a whole.
America, for them, is synonymous with GW Bush, with military interventions in countries which didn't ask for any help (and temporarily suffer more under war, no matter how great they'd do in the long term with the former oppressors gone), with slaughter of civilians in Vietnam, with obese chicks at McDonald's, and so on.

However, I know enough Americans who are open-minded and I know enough Americans who actually follow ideals I respect under the mask of patriotism to know that America doesn't equal what "anti-Americans" (not many people are truely anti-American, they are only against what they see in America, which is what many Americans are against as well) associate with it.

We don't live in a world of black and white. We live in a world of shades of grey with some concentrations of very dark grey and a few sprinkles of bright grey here and there.



And if you just don't care, rember this:
Ignorance is binary, apathy is unary. Neither is a good choice, but at least apathy doesn't hurt anybody else.

 

[Sovz]

Great post Ashmo, I couldn’t agree with you more.

 

[Paladin Solo]

LOL Solo, I must have struck your G-Spot, because you are screaming like a 20$ hooker.

Get it into your thick redneck skull, I don’t care about what you think about me, my country or my political views.

How retarded are you? To get upset by something written in some internet forum, dear god, your stupidity really amazes me.

Get it into your thick, ignorant skull, that just because someone makes a point, and disagrees with you doesn't make them retarded. You sit there, and call America retarded, just because you don't like the government? What the fuck is your problem? Get a little rough anal penetration this morning? And I didn't get upset, just telling you for what you are. But of course, you wouldn't know that because you claim everything different from you stupid and redneck.

And Ashmo, patriotism and nationalism are two different things. Although they can be confused with one another, a patriot has the ability, and right to disagree with the country he or she loves. A nationalist sees everything that he and his country stands for to be greater than all others. And don't forget, capitalism allows free enterprise, and competition.

 

[Big T]

Get it into your thick, ignorant skull, that just because someone makes a point, and disagrees with you doesn't make them retarded. You sit there, and call America retarded, just because you don't like the government? What the fuck is your problem? Get a little rough anal penetration this morning? And I didn't get upset, just telling you for what you are. But of course, you wouldn't know that because you claim everything different from you stupid and redneck.

That's a pretty poor post Solo. You berate him for calling you retarded, then proceed to call him: Thick, ignorant, gay ("rough anal penetration"), stupid and a redneck.
Pots and Kettles anyone?

 

[Paladin Solo]

I didn't call him stupid and redneck, calling America retarded just because you disagree with the political government and or system, then calling someone redneck and stupid just for setting you straight. We could play the blame game all night here T, I could point to him, you could point to me.

 

[Ugly John]

All i know is that this thread is not becoming a flamefest .

am i right or what?

 

[victor]

Patriotism was just invented because Nationalism started sounding bad. It's basically the same, you know.

Capitalism allows free enterprise and competition, sure, but capitalist society works like a wolfpack. You're weaker than the others, you get left behind. I'm not saying it's inherently bad, but it shouldn't be applied to matters that have to do with people's health (i.e healthcare).