Canon Is What YOU Make Of It, Not What You're Told.

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by PaxVenire, Apr 13, 2024.

  1. PaxVenire

    PaxVenire Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    841
    Oct 29, 2020
    I wanted to talk about this for a long while now, but with the Fallout TV show out, the topic is at it's most relevant. This is also mostly for newcomers or lurkers who came to discuss canonicity as most of the regulars on here already know this.

    I've noticed in the past few days, from both Bethesda haters and Bethesda lovers, the major discrepancy people are having with the changes to the lore in the new Fallout TV show. I'm not going to spoil the show, but I will say it is a bit crazy to see even the major Bethesda lovers taken aback by this show's decisions. But what I really have been seeing is the rise in complaining about "canon", specifically when it comes to Bethesda's stance that the TV show is canon despite the irreparable lore breaks within the show.
    A lot of people are questioning the canonicity of the Fallout TV show and drawing major mental gymnastic conclusions for the retcons working with the series, but none of that matters because canon is nothing more than a tool. Canon is what you make of it, not what you're told. If you watched the Fallout TV show and found yourself banging your head trying to figure out how it makes sense with a game that came out in the 1990s or 2010, I have something to tell you: You're already doing more work out of passion for the IP than the Hollywood scriptwriters who just got paid millions to confuse you. Bethesda, Amazon, Kilter Films, they're all corporations selling you a product. They don't give a shit if X NPC said Y thing in Z game. They are telling their story and God be damned if they're gonna change course because some fictional event happened differently four games ago.
    Bethesda calls the show canon not because they genuinely scrubbed through every line of dialogue in the series and meticulously crafted the script to fit in with every game. They call it canon because they know they can use that word to manipulate their fans into garnering more hype. The more people interested, the more people watch, the more money they get. But the word has no true meaning.
    If a history book came out tomorrow that inserted World War II in between the First and Second Punic Wars and Stalin as the ruler of Mesopotamia, and the publisher tried convincing you this is how actual history went down, you would tell them to fuck off. So why give that power to these corporations? If the Fallout TV show fundamentally changes something clearly established in a game you like, and Big Brother Bethesda tells you "This show is canon", why waste your time worrying about what people who clearly don't give a shit said. Tell them to fuck off.
    I'm not even trying to be a cunt and say you can't be bitter or disgruntled over the state of the series, of course you can. A lot of people are and a lot of people have been. The lore breaks are insane and you have every right as a passionate fan to be upset and voice your opinion. If you loved the show and personally find it better than something that came out previously, good for you. If you've crossed every dot and found a way to miraculously make it all make sense to you, congrats, you did the work for them. But for the majority who are upset and confused, just stop allowing corporations to tell you what is "canon". If they don't give a shit to ensure consistency, why are you doing it for them?
    I love Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas. That's my canon. Some of you might hate Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas, but love Fallout 3, 4, and 76. That's your canon. Some of you might not have played the games and love the show. That's your canon. Or perhaps you love all Fallouts and consider them all canon, good for you. I can't tell you what to find canon, and you can't tell me what I find canon, and some out of touch corporation pushing products absolutely can't tell any of us what's canon. Fighting over canon is like kindergarteners at recess pointing at each other and crying that their action figure is cooler. When you learn to just stop worrying about that stupid made up tool of a word, and step back and see how it's used to manipulate, you'll finally see that the game was rigged from the start.
     
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  2. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite [REDACTED]

    Oct 13, 2010
    Everyone knows only Fallout Tactics, Brotherhood of Steel on the Xbox and the unproduced Fallout film script are canon.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 9
  3. Hawkwing74

    Hawkwing74 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    136
    Feb 20, 2024
    I'm going to win by not watching the show at all, saving my time and frustration! Instead I'm going to waste that time reading and posting on forums or waiting for youtube reviews.

    Also, I already lost because we pay for Amazon Prime and we utilize the shipping. My wife won't let me cancel that and it's not a hill to die on. So Amazon gets my money anyway.

    I can't vote with my dollars out of this one.

    Agree with OP, my Star Wars canon disallows movies 7-9. I have 1-6 and can watch them whenever I want.

    Unlikely to buy any potential Fallout 5 since I couldn't bother to finish 4. My canon for Fallout ends with New Vegas.
     
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  4. PsychoSniper

    PsychoSniper So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Jun 27, 2003
    Amazon and bethesda just dgaf about consistent storytelling.

    And the show is gona be its own thing seperate from bethesdas storyline much less the prime timeline.

    If you go into the show with that frame of mind, you have a chance to enjoy it.
     
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  5. TheKingofVault14

    TheKingofVault14 Fallout Fan For Life!

    651
    Jul 5, 2022
    Heh heh, BASED TAKE BRO! :ok:

    :roffle: :roffle: :roffle:
     
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  6. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    You forgot to include the scripts for all cancelled Fallout games: Fallout Tactics 2, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel 2, Van Buren (Fallout 3), Fallout Extreme and Project V13 (cancelled MMO).

    Now with all of these, the Fallout canon is perfect!
     
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  7. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Nah, you're all wrong.

    All games break the canon of Fallout Shelter, but Fallout Shelter never breaks canon of other games.

    Therefore only Fallout Shelter is canon.
     
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  8. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    canon is finnicky. getting into comic books has changed my perspective on it a lot. when you publish about 50 books a month for 70 years its gonna be hard to make sure everything lines up and no contradictions or wierd shit pops up. future writers will ignore things they didnt like or go out of their way to undo them or be told they cant undo certain things and so on. in a situation like this where something is that big sure canon is what you make of it. dont like what a writer is doing? wait em out in a few years it wont really matter in all likely-hood you can just pick up the book later. but when we're talking about what like 6 or seven games over a period of 25 years? youre not getting 12 new stories a week. every entry MATTERS because its gonna be a long time before youre getting another one. so if it breaks canon its gonna take a whole lot longer for that to fade into the rearview and makes it much more likely to influence the next entry. and not for nothing but not being able to get 7 (now 8 including the tv show) stories to line up even a little bit is fucking CRAZY and really just speaks to how little concern they have for continuity.
     
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  9. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    At least Marvel comics explain breaking canon by making those stories happen in different universes and having the Multiversal Cycle (the death and renewal of a particular universe). And they have proper canon and history for why those things happen too. :lmao:
     
  10. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite [REDACTED]

    Oct 13, 2010
    I remember when Mark Waid tried to explain away the numerous retcons made to Iron Man’s backstory by saying “we’re just going to refer to it as The War” and People lost their shit.

    Anyway, one of the things I love about comics is their rich history and massive retcons.

    When a writer can so so cleverly, it honestly reads like a masterpiece.

    Also I love how everything is canon. That weird early 00’s alt universe book you read, that comes back due to multiverse stuff.
     
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  11. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Slippy sloppy, The

    Sep 11, 2010
    Canon is the original and the principles that went into making it or the intent thereof. Sometimes the intent cannot be met with the technology at the time or the budget and so you have to make do with what you have which allows a little bit of wiggle room in redefining those things in the future. The question is who is redefining it, for what reason and does it hold up to the principles that the OG creators set out to create the IP with? Canon is a guide rail to make sure that the IP does not fall off the path that was set out for it and to make sure that it is as internally consistent as it can be as it can otherwise create a lot of confusion for both new writers and fans alike when things are contradicted.

    It doesn't matter what the IP holder says is canon, what matters is the work that they produce and whether it has stayed within those guide railings of principles that it was set out to accomplish. If they fuck it up, then they fuck it up and nothing they say means differently. It is not up to the fans to 'make up' the canon either. That's silly. If that was the case then I'd make a bunch of Rule 34 deathclaw gay porn canon.

    What is up to the fans, the "real" fans, is to hold anything that comes out after the original to those principles set out for it and to hold their feet to the fire and grill them proper when they fuck it up. The OG creators can say or not say whatever they want to. Doesn't matter if it appeases the fans or is a death of the author moment, they are no longer in charge of the IP and even if they were people change and that change can be for the worse.

    But that original idea, those principles that were used to create it, that never goes away. That is the canon that everything that comes after has to adhere to. Whether you create new lore or just circle the drain doesn't matter, you do not break past the guard railing without tumbling off the side into India's corpsepoop-river.
     
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  12. Homer2137

    Homer2137 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    154
    Jan 11, 2024
    That's head canon you're talking about, the rightful owners of IP do tell us what's canon and what's not. That's just how canon works, sorry.
     
  13. Homer2137

    Homer2137 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    154
    Jan 11, 2024
    You can pirate stuff you know, I watched Fallout TV show for free on a site, the show is great, but it has woke stuff and massive retcons. Also about Star Wars, I like to pretend Prequels never happenned, because of how much stuff they retcon from Originals.
     
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  14. PaxVenire

    PaxVenire Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    841
    Oct 29, 2020
    Canon that doesn't care to be consistent with itself in the slightest defies the logic of canon entirely. That's just how canon works, sorry. Also no one tells me what's canon and what isn't because I don't put my stock in what product pushers say, I put it in what's sensical. Canon, headcanon, my canon, your canon, call it whatever you want, it's a made up word anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2024
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  15. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Slippy sloppy, The

    Sep 11, 2010


    If Bethesda said this number is canonically an 8 it doesn't matter what they say it is canonically because I have a brain and can critically think for myself and know that this number is not an 8.
    It is clearly a 4.
     
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  16. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
     
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  17. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    It's kind of weird we still don't know a lot of what's in the East Coast, weird that they haven't made a game in the there yet.
     
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  18. PaxVenire

    PaxVenire Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    841
    Oct 29, 2020
    Someone should do something there, that would be cool.
     
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  19. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    New factions, new mutants, new locations and so on. Hope someone doesn't just transport everything from the West Coast to the East Coast, that would be lame as hell and make the setting feel much smaller and narrower than it should be.
     
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  20. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Too bad Water World bombed because Fallout Pirates would be a sick faction.
    also turns out they were the Enclave the entire time.
     
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