CCP snubbed by the Nobel committee

Keep in mind Taiwan is a more of a political feud that the chinese (on both sides never solved), kinda like N and S. Korea.

The nationalists abandoned the mainland and took everything of value with them when it was clear they would lose to the communists. Having to rebuild the war torn mainland after being plundered by nationlist chinese isn't exactly going to put the communists in a fuzzy peace loving mood. Taiwan now being a US ally and itself also claiming "the true china" as well doesn't help things.

If anything I think China jus wants more "face" and so it demands the "one china" policy every chance it gets. Plus they don't like the idea of the US having forward operation bases so close to the mainland while the PRC has nothing close to that (they do not even have a bluewater navy).

In regards to human rights I believe the PRC is in-evitably going to change. The way the U.S. government controls their citizens is so much more efective anyways. I mean, why bother using violence when you can just pacify them with mindless entertainment and goods. Why use censorship when you can just release a shitload of truths and lies. So much to the point where your own population doesn't know whats what.

I think this is the reason China doesn't give a shit about anything except money and goods. If you can keep your populace glued to the tv or their xbox, they won't bother wasting time with things like "politics". Granted it was in the past, exploitation was the easiest way for the old powers to consolidate wealth and power. Would the U.S. be the way it currently is had the robber barons not ruthlessly suppressed any worker dissent with government backing? There are some that insist that it was thanks to these "captains of industry" that the U.S. became the inudstrialized powerhouse that it was.

In the end, all the crap the PRC is pulling right now is because of what the chinese learned from the foreign powers that controlled it and most of the world in the past. Be it right or wrong, it worked for the old powers then and now the PRC hardliners think it will work for them.
 
DarkCorp said:
In the end, all the crap the PRC is pulling right now is because of what the chinese learned from the foreign powers that controlled it and most of the world in the past.
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That's definitely true, which is precisely why they could make the same mistakes Germany did in the 1930s.

Or not.

An economic boom like the one China has had over the past ten years probably has a bust-period coming at some point. That's just the nature of economic reality. The future direction of the country will be decided at that point, I would say.
 
UniversalWolf said:
DarkCorp said:
IThat's definitely true, which is precisely why they could make the same mistakes Germany did in the 1930s.

Or not.

An economic boom like the one China has had over the past ten years probably has a bust-period coming at some point. That's just the nature of economic reality. The future direction of the country will be decided at that point, I would say.
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The thing I don't understand is why people keep thinking the PRC is going to wage some kind of massive war for world domination. Nothing they have done or continues to do indicates this. The only belligerence the country has shown towards another sovreign nation is Taiwan and thats been explained above. They have shown an interest in building a bluewater navy but then again a couple other world powers have them too.

The belligerent attitude the PRC has shown (justified or not), is hardly comparable to the land grabs of the nazis or soviet russia. It is not comparable to the colonization policies of the old world powers either. If anything, the PRC is vocal about past abuses by foreign powers and I think that is within their right. Taiwans alliance with the US and the presence of U.S. military forces in the area, is going to strain relations with the mainland. During their retreat and out of a desire to continue the fight/make their own government/country, the nationalists emptied the remaining national reserves from an already war torn and near bankrupt nation. That as well is not exactly going to help the peace process. Taiwans claim, for a very long time, to be the one true china? Just another bump.

America, Great Britain and other world powers have also adopted these practices at some point in the past (again it doesn't matter whether these countries apologized or not). For those people who say just becaus one does it doesn't mean another should are ignoring the small fact that the benefits have already been reaped. Everything is easier in hindsight.

I agree the economic bust will be the defining moment that will shape future polices of the PRC. But look at the economic bust that the U.S. suffered during the crash. Did America get out of it by dominating other nations? We instead covertly helped our allied though a lend lease policy and only with Pearl Harbor did America actually enter the war.

I agree that the PRC is using strong arm tactics to keep order in its own house but I believe this process is in-evitably going to change. Again, ruling U.S.A. style is much more efficient and a lot less costly in terms of internal cost and international prestige.
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I've got a friend working for a firm in collaboration with Honeywell doing some business with the Chinese. Inspecting parts, quality control, supply chain. He goes to China a few times a year.

Those guys work 12 hours a day, also weekends. They get up at 6 on Sundays for military training. That happens in almost all workplaces. With this kind of discipline they'll take over the world for sure.
 
Yup either own half of Mongolia by the age of 25 or become the family blacksheep for life.
 
Anyway, if you can't beat them, create your own.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/confucius-peace-prize-china_n_793610.html

BEIJING — Only three weeks after the idea was first publicly floated, China has cobbled together its own peace prize and plans to award it Thursday – the day before the Nobel Committee honors an imprisoned Chinese dissident in a move that has enraged Beijing.

Since Liu Xiaobo's selection, China has vilified the 54-year-old democracy advocate, called the choice an effort by the West to contain its rise, disparaged his supporters as "clowns," and launched a campaign to persuade countries not to attend Friday's ceremony in Oslo. The government is also preventing Liu – who is serving an 11-year sentence for co-authoring a bold appeal for political reforms in the Communist country – and his family members from attending.

Amid the flurry of action came a commentary published on Nov. 17 in a Communist Party-approved tabloid that suggested China create its own award – the "Confucius Peace Prize" – to counter the choice of Liu.

Three weeks later, The Associated Press has learned, China is doing just that.

Named after the famed philosopher, the new prize was created to "interpret the viewpoints of peace of (the) Chinese (people)," the awards committee said in a statement it released to the AP on Tuesday.

Awards committee chairman Tan Changliu said his group was not an official government body, but acknowledged that it worked closely with the Ministry of Culture. He declined to give specifics about the committee, when it was created and how the five judges were chosen, saying it would be disclosed later.

The first honoree is Lien Chan, Taiwan's former vice president and the honorary chairman of its Nationalist Party, for having "built a bridge of peace between the mainland and Taiwan." A staffer in his Taipei office said she could not comment Tuesday because she knew nothing about the prize.
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http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/12/08/who-needs-nobel-china-launches-the-confucius-peace-prize/

Oh, the irony.

And I wonder if any of these Chinese committee members follows any Taiwanese news before awarding this prize. Lien's son just survived an attempted assassination/aggravated assault on the eve before the very important penta-Mayoral elections. There are a lot of theories floating about this seemingly random crime. One of them been that ultra right winged CCP members ordered a hit on Lien's son. Who knows.

Is it childish? For sure, but it's probably no more childish than preventing Norway's Miss Universe contestant from entering China to compete in this year's pageant.
 
DarkCorp said:
The only belligerence the country has shown towards another sovreign nation is Taiwan and thats been explained above.
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There really isn't a single nation bordering China that hasn't at one point been bullied by China. Tibet was bombed heavily and annexed by China, China directly intervened in the Korean War, India and China got into a low-level shooting war with one another in the 60s, and about the only people the Vietnamese hated more than the Americans in the Vietnam War were the Chinese. Suffice it to say they've got their fingers in a lot of pies.

That said, the mere thought that China actually cares what a bunch of continental Europeans think of them is clearly a European conceit. As with all other things, China abides, because, like America, there is nothing Europe can do to materially punish China without shooting themselves in the foot. Mere bluster and positioning from an awards committee in Norway will do little to change that.
 
Historically yes since China WAS an empire. However, I am speaking more about the modern age.

Korea: Korea was not a land grab nor attempt to grab land. It was doing its duty as a fellow communist nation to defend another. Also could be due to soviet pressure.

Vietnam: Border dis-agreements have long been disputed between the two since ancient times. Plus its no different than any other territorial beef that many other nations have. Any military action that resulted was more about the sino-soviet split than anyting else. At the time, china was shying away from soviet style communism to a self styled "maoist" one wheras Vietnam remained loyal. Add the tensions between soviet backed vietnam and chinese backed cambodia conflict and you see a recipe for animosity.

India: Yes more fighting but more related to border dis-agreements than some "world wide takeover" plans akin to Nazi Germany or the British Empirre. Also again politics plays into the role due to India granting the Dalai Lama asylum and subsequent percieved Indian attempts to subvert chinese rule in Tibet. Also the chinese feared a soviet/india/american pact to encircle the country.

Tibet: I will give you that one but again its hardly an example of "worldwide" empire building. More of wanting someting that it owned before since ancient times and lost due to its own weakness and foreign influences.
 
DarkCorp said:
Historically yes since China WAS an empire. However, I am speaking more about the modern age.

Korea: Korea was not a land grab nor attempt to grab land. It was doing its duty as a fellow communist nation to defend another. Also could be due to soviet pressure.

Vietnam: Border dis-agreements have long been disputed between the two since ancient times. Plus its no different than any other territorial beef that many other nations have. Any military action that resulted was more about the sino-soviet split than anyting else. At the time, china was shying away from soviet style communism to a self styled "maoist" one wheras Vietnam remained loyal. Add the tensions between soviet backed vietnam and chinese backed cambodia conflict and you see a recipe for animosity.

India: Yes more fighting but more related to border dis-agreements than some "world wide takeover" plans akin to Nazi Germany or the British Empirre. Also again politics plays into the role due to India granting the Dalai Lama asylum and subsequent percieved Indian attempts to subvert chinese rule in Tibet. Also the chinese feared a soviet/india/american pact to encircle the country.

Tibet: I will give you that one but again its hardly an example of "worldwide" empire building. More of wanting someting that it owned before since ancient times and lost due to its own weakness and foreign influences.
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The Korean War - as in China's direct contribution to the Cold War - was not the modern age?

China's military incursion into Vietnam to stop them from messing with China-backed Cambodia wasn't empire-building?

East and Southeast Asia is as much China's as Eastern Europe is Russia's domain as Latin America is the United States' domain.
 
If you mean" belligerant" as in the sense of the occupation/annexing of anothers country then no. Plenty of nations have border clashes and dis-agreements, that is not the same as aspirations of world domination. India and Pakistan have had extensive shootouts but does that make both countries "evil?"

Last I heard Vitenam is still Vietnam, not a chinese puppet state and definitely a sovereign country.

PRC heavily influences the DPRK but thats a direct result of Kim's foolishness. Kim as no real friends besides the PRC. It is by no means a "puppet" state considering its limited nuclear abilities and again, has not been annexed by the PRC and is a soverign nation.

India: China waged a border war, NOT a war of invasion. India is a sovereign nation and NOT a puppet state. Nor has India been annexed along the lines what Nazi Germany and the British did.

Cambodia: It was and still IS a sovereign nation. Again PRC troops neither invaded nor annexed the nation. Maybe had heavy influence like the DPRK but thats it.

Are you sure you don't mean China as an ECONOMIC powerhouse compared to smaller nations? It is true they have a lot of sway as a permanent member of the security council but again if that makes them evil then lump the other 4 in as well.

Sounds like to not be considered belligerant you would have to be a country like Sweden.
 
http://www.economist.com/blogs/asiaview/2010/12/china_and_nobel_peace_prize

CHINESE leaders probably failed to anticipate the battering that China’s image abroad would suffer as a result of the awarding of the Nobel peace prize to an imprisoned Chinese dissident, Liu Xiaobo. They would have expected that their boycott of the award ceremony in Oslo on December 10th would invite comparisons in the West between China and the Soviet Union, which responded with similar fury to the award of the prize to Andrei Sakharov in 1975. It is unlikely they fully realised that their behaviour would be equated even more prominently with that of Nazi Germany.

The empty chair reserved for Mr Liu at Oslo’s town hall, and the absence of any of his family members to receive the award on his behalf, made this the first such ceremony since 1936 when Carl von Ossietzky, a jailed German pacifist, was a similar no-show. Adolf Hitler refused to let him go to the ceremony. Mr Sakharov was not allowed to pick up his prize either, but his wife, Elena Bonner, happened to be abroad at the time and was able to go in his place.

China is extremely prickly about being compared with Nazi Germany. This newspaper got an earful from Chinese officials in 2001 for publishing a leader arguing that China was not suited to host the Olympic Games because “the world has no cause to honour a government that governs in this way with a sporting event intended to promote human dignity”. The Economist reminded readers of the similar position it took on the Nazis’ hosting of the Olympic Games in 1936.
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