Child Killing

Kretol said:
I can't understand one thing. Why the hell you need to kill children in this game? Is it so important? Will it change anything or what? Will you feel better when you will kill some children in the game? I don't get it...
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Why do you need to kill any innocent people or animals at all? It's wrong in real life it shouldn't be allowed in video games.


I wouldn't mind so much but there's a main quest that requires you to tapdance to the little ones in lamplight, and if I'm a slaver/murderer/racist who carries a minigun, why would I even bother with a conversation?
 
Kretol said:
I can't understand one thing. Why the hell you need to kill children in this game? Is it so important? Will it change anything or what? Will you feel better when you will kill some children in the game? I don't get it...
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Because invincible kids break any kind of immersion you have? Fighting off megaton and the sheriff's kid happens to run into the middle of it? He's totally fine. Flames flying around him, missiles into him etc. and not a damn scratch.
Saving the slave kids in paradise falls and shoot someone? Kids could happily take every round of ammo in the place with no ill effects.

It's ridiculous.
 
I can't understand one thing. why do people try to pretend that FO3 has taken some kind of moral high ground wrt children when there are actually locked cages full of decomposing bodies of kids in the springvale elementary school
 
oihrebwe said:
I can't understand one thing. why do people try to pretend that FO3 has taken some kind of moral high ground wrt children when there are actually locked cages full of decomposing bodies of kids in the springvale elementary school
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Who said those were kids? Just wondering since by mu guess there has been no teaching in that school for a long while :P
 
spite_nike said:
Who said those were kids? Just wondering since by mu guess there has been no teaching in that school for a long while :P
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because they are smaller than the other skeletons.
 
The skeletons under desks in schools don't appear to be very tall for adults.

In any case, *you* did not do it. The evil governments of the earth did in their war other natural ressources. The evil (and dumb) raiders who only know the words "kick" and "ass" did. The evil slavers up at Paradise's Fall turned them into slaves. Common point here ? They're evil ! Are you evil ? Yes ? Seriously ? Hrrmmm... well no you're not, at least not THAT evil. Just wait for them to grow up THEN kill them, that's evil enough for you.

I love Bethesda's morale in this game. You can kill anyone in the world, EXCEPT :

- children
- people that you can "use" for a reward

Everyone else does not matter. Sure it does lower you karma. Speaking of the matter, we finally know the value of life : 10 caps (choose between scrap metal or donation to a cult) :mrgreen:
 
I want Satan character somewhere in the wasteland who gives you 1000 caps for every children you have killed in exchange of some proof off the childs body.

EDIT: Also, the lowest karma level you can achieve is pathetic: Very Evil, Ne'er Do-Well
I want to be Spawn of Agonizing Screams! Or smth like that.

EDIT2: Or Hellraiser, or Shit From Below
 
I rather see a mod that makes you kill the unkillible "important" characters.

Also would there be any grafics for dead kids ingame?
 
Way I figure it, models are scaled according to age and the animations are universal.

So no moar work needed.
 
Bowyerte said:
The skeletons under desks in schools don't appear to be very tall for adults.

In any case, *you* did not do it. The evil governments of the earth did in their war other natural ressources. The evil (and dumb) raiders who only know the words "kick" and "ass" did. The evil slavers up at Paradise's Fall turned them into slaves. Common point here ? They're evil ! Are you evil ? Yes ? Seriously ? Hrrmmm... well no you're not, at least not THAT evil. Just wait for them to grow up THEN kill them, that's evil enough for you.

I love Bethesda's morale in this game. You can kill anyone in the world, EXCEPT :

- children
- people that you can "use" for a reward

Everyone else does not matter. Sure it does lower you karma. Speaking of the matter, we finally know the value of life : 10 caps (choose between scrap metal or donation to a cult) :mrgreen:
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so wait, suggesting that BS didn't prevent childkilling for legal reasons but because it prevents you from roleplaying as an "excessively" evil character? and you're praising them for this? why should any player be prevented from being the most evil person in the game if they want to be?
 
To me, it seems that the whole child unkillable thing is a semi-hardcoded bunch of stuff that is forced upon certain NPCs if they are flagged as children, technically removing some of their NPC properties (or possibly it's even applied if they just have a certain Agerace value, which would be bad, see my suggestion further down).

@ the guy who TCLLed out of V101: The fact that the player can die and get hurt as a kid might not mean that other NPCs can, depending on how the engine handles the PC contra NPCs. I supposed they had to add this, to make you feel the pain when Butch shakes you down for sweets. But the fact that child models can become ragdolls is a good sign, as opposed to if the whole character model just vanished when you died.

I'm pretty sure that if Bethesda have the balls, they will release the CS in a form that can handle the Child-flag, if there is one. But if it's the Agerace value that makes kiddies unkillable, we could perhaps:
Set the Agerace of every child in the game to the adult value.
Manually create a race that uses the child model (creating the model as well if necessary).
Set all the children to that race. This might make all the children in the game frightfully similar, but that's just making the game more like the originals.

About the child model: I've heard that there aren't really any child models, but that the game scales down the adult ones. That means we have to create child models. Concidering that in the two years since Oblivion has been out, the community has pumped out enough textures and modelling work to populate 3 more Oblivions, this shouldn't be impossible, just very time-consuming.
 
Magnus said:
(or possibly it's even applied if they just have a certain Agerace value, which would be bad, see my suggestion further down).
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Enable essential killing, agerace 1, kill, agerace -1.

Dead child, it's based upon agerace value at least partially.
 
nad02s said:
Is it possible to knock the kids out? Because you can edit the .ini file to allow chars that normally get knocked out to be killed instead.

I tried to shoot a kid but the whole town of Megaton went mad on me and killed me, I will try again when I get a minigun :twisted:
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Afaict there are no animations, it's ragdoll physics.
 
For reasons of the video game 'teen rating'

I'd make Kids essential npcs as in Oblivion, means you can blow them away and knock unconscious but not kill as they will get back up eventually. This would fulfill the 'can't kill kids' policy of the censorship board.

Next, if you mod it you simply erase the 'essential' from the descripion of kids and suddenly they are killable but you have a mod doing this not the shipped by the book game.

Next. You get bad karma for killing a good kid (like the sister of the brother who eats his family). You get a little bad karma for even harming her each time you do so, but not killing her, like negative 1 point if say you loose 10 karma for killing.

For kids like the vampire kids, the brother who ate his family, you get Good Karma and a bonus if you eliminate all of them from the wasteland as you prevented their culture of cannibalism and vampirism from taking root and spreading.

Essentially karma in the game would be "Does it benefit the future society or not". If no then its positive, not not its negative, stopping a cannibal tribe is postive.
 
:\ I don't get it, they allow you to die when you're a 10 year old kid, but they don't let you kill other kids.

Also I think Bethesda made the children unkillable and bratty just to piss off us slaughterer of children.
 
I would assume it's simply a single value under the 4 child races in the ESM.

We're talking about dozens of subvalues though, someone with more experience digging around in FOMM might be able to figure it out.
 
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