Chrono Trigger- The best console RPG?

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Howdy fellow wastelanders! Heres the deal. I've been playing Chrono Trigger for the past few days and it dawned on me....why didn't game developers pay attention to this kick ass game ,and copy it like they do everything else. Grand Theft Auto has been copied so many times it's pathetic. Final Fantasy....ditto. EVERY PLATFORM GAME EVER!The same.
Chrono Trigger is unlike any game I have ever played. The combat is fan-fucking-tastic, the story is unique(if not a bit cliche),and it has 20 endings. You travel through time in order to save the world from an Alien called Lavos,who you witnessed destroy the world.Not too original,but it does get better from there. There are so many twists and turns it constantly keeps you on your toes. Anyone else remember this classic RPG?
 
Blast from the past:
chrono.gif


Anyway, copy Chrono Trigger how, exactly? Chrono Trigger did quite a few things very well, but I don't seem to remember it being a major innovation (small improvements, yes, perhaps limited innovations if you want to be generous). It was one of a number of J-RPGs, each trying to break through with various story devices and tweaked combat systems. I think it would be more appropriate to ask why developers were not able to imitate the quality of Chrono Trigger (of course, what other J-RPG had the Dream Team of J-RPGs behind it?).

136953338541f50c06752c9.gif
 
I played Chrono Cross first, then eventually played Trigger on an emulator. It seemed like a good game, certainly much better than the pre-PS1 Final Fantasy games, but I just couldn't get into it and gave up a 1/4th of the way through.
 
Considering console RPG's Chrono Trigger is definately one of the top ten. I think Final Fantasy 6 (released as FF 3 in the USA) is still the best console RPG ever though.

Great link Kotario.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
You HAVE to try to play it a little longer. I felt the same at first, but then it started to really kick ass. It might not be for everybody though....
 
Meh...while Chrono Trigger was good, it was more like a pachinko game in terms of role-playing quality. The diagram above does a good job of illustrating this. It is still a damn good fun game to play, though the sequels are highly uninspiring.

For another of the console RPGs that I consider to have RPG quality, try the MegaTen series, long name Shin Megami Tensei. It is around Japanese folklore, some sci-fi material, but does follow a role-playing aspect not really seen in many console games. You could make decisions that affect not only the story's outcome, but also the progression of events, sometimes causing entirely different events to happen instead. It was a bit disappointing that they didn't expand upon this for the latest in the series, Nocturne, but it still is a pretty good play through.
 
Speaking of final fantasy 3, this is making my mouth water every time i think of it.

http://ds.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=2839

I never played final fantasy 3 the first time around so this graphical update on the go is gettin me esssiteed :)

As for shin Megami, i've been meaning to try them but they're all so darned expensive. The guy across the hall's got em though so one day i'll swipe his for a go through.

Also, continuing my rant... has anyone played valkyrie profile? i've always wanted to try the game but it's used prices are outlandish.
 
Valkryie is a pretty good game. Another good one is Vagrant Story for the PSX. It's a great dungeon crawl/ medeviel espionage tale.
 
TorontRayne said:
Valkryie is a pretty good game. Another good one is Vagrant Story for the PSX. It's a great dungeon crawl/ medeviel espionage tale.

Vagrant is also a lot cheaper :-D. 10 dollars used on amazon versus valkyrie's 100 :x . I'm thinking about at least picking up vagrant though.
 
I wish they would have made a Vagrant story sequel. Square always makes the same old FF sequels, but they should have made a Vagrant sequel. I loved that game so much. I like the fact that you can create your own weapons, and certain weapons only work on certain enemies.
 
mmm Square's a business, they make what they know will be a guaranteed hit. No different than EA... Not that final fantasy's suck... I've had fun with them, whether they're "RPGs" or not, but it is true that the company just plays it safe too darned often.
 
They NEVER change Final Fantasy. EVER! They made FF 7 and 8 a little different from the rest of the series , but then they fall back into the same old bullshit. WHY SQUARE?! To make money? Like they need anymore money. They can afford to risk every now and again. Vagrant story and Chrono trigger were risks, but they don't make any sequels for them. Chrono got one sequel at least.....
 
Actually, that's not true. FF6 was actually already different from the previous Final Fantasy episodes. Then 7 and 8 went along in the same vein. Then they went back to the classic fantasy approach with 9, and after that they continued in the way of 6,7 and 8. So they do take some risks and make some changes.
 
FF7 was a lot different from 6. 7 had a completly different magic system which was materia and it was so customizable. I admit 6 did lead the way since it didn't go with the whole job system , but I like 7 more. It was a lot more fun to play too. There is so much to do in FF 7 and 8 for that matter.
 
Chrono Trigger, and via the name but not the spirit, Chrono Cross both had a number of small sequels, mostly uninspiring crap. There was even a hotel room game revolving the Radical Dreamers, though about the same quality as what I could do with a simple text choice game editor and a weekend.

I think DeJap.com has a mention of this on their forums somewhere, and a bit more of a background about the title series.

As for the Final Fantasy series, they had two distinctive character systems. There is the character-based, and then the job-based.

The character-based of surrounding cast is what leads to better gameplay and character development, because it gave them some other flavor than "whine", "snivel", "bitch", and "moan". This was most commonly used in FF4 and FF6. It was also used in FF10, where you decide what to develop on the character, but generally they developed their way, then you could branch out them a bit as you desire.

The job-based or class-based, seen in FF 1-2, expanded upon a LOT in 3, FF5 then carried a lot more of the class-changing ability of FF3 (which, combined with the great combat of Treasure Hunter G - no, seriously, it's almost like Fallout's style in many regards - which later led to Final Fantasy Tactics being developed in its way), and then FF7 came up with some really tragic crap. Some chimp had the idea that all you needed to do is change around the materia to make each character like every other except for limit breaks, so it felt like all you were doing is feeding materia ad infinitum, and the characters didn't really add any personal flavor in common combat. FF8 further removes the character from them, and added in a retarded gunblade, and thus I didn't bother with FF9 so I can't really say. So FF 7 and 8 are pretty much item or widget-based character systems, swappable between characters like a hat. Ugh. Both the character system and the characters themselves were in desperate need of lethal amounts of Prozac.

Squaresoft needs to change this for FF a bit if they want to strike a comfortable medium, since they have been dancing around both with experimental success and a love/hate relationship between the character system preferences. Give the PC choice to develop their character and personality, and create the NPCs as character-based characters. That way, it both immerses the player and offers them choice, like what people enjoyed from FF1-3,5. It also gives the surrounding non-player characters, or rather surrounding party characters (as Square is quite sketchy on the definition), a bit more character in ways that people enjoy from Fallout and other western games.

The SaGa Frontier games have done this to a point several times in the series, and they also allow for a bit of freedom of choice in how you play through them.
 
I liked the materia system in FF7 however, I do agree that you could switch them around on any character ,which effectively eliminates individuality on all the characters in combat. Hmmmm.... I think I'll give Cloud "Matra Magic" for a little while. You have to admit that the FF series did evolve at that point. FF 6 had character development,but FF7 had characters that you truly cared for.

Killing Aeris was a major moment in RPG history. Anyone who plays video games knows about that moment. Sepiroth was a kick ass villian, but I do admit that Kefka is right up there. I honestly can't think of any villians that top the ones in Final Fantasy.....nope I really can't. Kefka poisoning a entire water supply, killing an entire city was classic. Sepiroth summoning a comet to destroy the planet was friggin fantastic. Even the FF villians back on the NES were pretty memorable. FF 5's villian XDOOM reminds me a lot of Sepiroth... or vice versa...

I know lot's of people don't acknowledge FF as RPG, but the old FF games really did have a lot to them. FF 5 had so many sidequests that you didn't have to do, and all of them added so much to the game. One such location was the Phoenix Tower which had SO MANY ROOMS in it, and it would kick your ass so hard, but you would just come back for more.

The bad new is FF isn't fun anymore. I don't plan on playing the series until they revamp:

1) The tired ass combat style that has existed since I was born. :evil:

2) The same old "end of the world" malarky. :shock:

3) The linear gameplay. With games like Baldurs Gate,Morrowind,and Fallout, who wants to play a straight forward story. No story branches, no character development, no multiple endings. :cry:

This must be fixed or I will never play another Square game again. Where have all the good RPG's gone? KOTOR, Jade Empire, FF,Kingdom hearts...... WTF?! These games can be beaten in under 20 hours! Come on. Does anyone feel my plight? :?
 
TorontRayne said:
I liked the materia system in FF7 however, I do agree that you could switch them around on any character ,which effectively eliminates individuality on all the characters in combat. Hmmmm.... I think I'll give Cloud "Matra Magic" for a little while. You have to admit that the FF series did evolve at that point. FF 6 had character development,but FF7 had characters that you truly cared for.

Ever since Final Fantasy 7, angsty has been "in" for Square, especially in FF8. Because of that, I have wanted to personally put a bullet in each and every one of the characters' useless heads.

It is the contrary for FF6's characters, which I find to have some personal character than "bitch", "whine", and "racial stereotype". Character development is replaced with developing irritation when ithe script is regurgitated whining and posturing rewritten for each location, it got predictable and quite a bit boring for me. I really didn't care about many of the characters, because they were so stereotypical, with the materia system it led to most of them becoming faceless in terms of gameplay.

Killing Aeris was a major moment in RPG history. Anyone who plays video games knows about that moment.

I disagree, it was a major point for console RPG history, and because FF was about the only thing translated for American audiences then (as Treasure Hunter G and many other titles were not translated, and THG was known for the first open lesbian love interest clearly written into the game). Killing off a heroine has been staple fare from Japan writing for some time, and there have been far better deaths in RPG history. A few of note in Ultima, and other storylines, and MegaTen has points that sneer at the killing of Aeris. Truly, they sneer.

Outside of FF7 fanboys, nobody really cares about killing Aeris.

Sepiroth was a kick ass villian, but I do admit that Kefka is right up there.

Sorry, I wasn't impressed with either of them. They tended to be a bit shallow compared to FF4 or, well, quite a few other enemies around the Enix and Square history. Both were nuts, one was just goth kid nuts.

I honestly can't think of any villians that top the ones in Final Fantasy.....nope I really can't. Kefka poisoning a entire water supply, killing an entire city was classic. Sepiroth summoning a comet to destroy the planet was friggin fantastic. Even the FF villians back on the NES were pretty memorable. FF 5's villian XDOOM reminds me a lot of Sepiroth... or vice versa...

All they did were a few evil deeds and were insane bent on destroying the world. Nothing complex, nor too imaginative. OMG, here comes a killer instersteller plague wiping out entire planets! CT had enemies that had class, style, and not just a cool haircut and sword. THG, Seiken Densetsu 3, Dragon Quest V, VII, and a few others you should check out. Phantasy Star, for example, and also the Star Oceans. Really, the FF enemies are a bit cliché, and thus they had to spawn out the boss for FF10 with a few twists.

I know lot's of people don't acknowledge FF as RPG, but the old FF games really did have a lot to them. FF 5 had so many sidequests that you didn't have to do, and all of them added so much to the game. One such location was the Phoenix Tower which had SO MANY ROOMS in it, and it would kick your ass so hard, but you would just come back for more.

As dungeon crawlers, they have my utmost respect. They are fun, beautiful, entertaining in that regard, at least the old ones.

The bad new is FF isn't fun anymore. I don't plan on playing the series until they revamp:

1) The tired ass combat style that has existed since I was born. :evil:

2) The same old "end of the world" malarky. :shock:

3) The linear gameplay. With games like Baldurs Gate,Morrowind,and Fallout, who wants to play a straight forward story. No story branches, no character development, no multiple endings. :cry:

Exactly. Final Fantasy was an all-or-nothing venture initially for Squaresoft. When they were making games like Adventues of 3d World Runner, they were soon going down the shitter. Then, someone decided to come up with a game concept that rivaled the Wizardry and Dragon Quest like games currently out for the Nintendo. So they went to do better than anything else, and had a LOT of success.

Now, they really aren't even trying. Pity, and with all that money and talent.

This must be fixed or I will never play another Square game again. Where have all the good RPG's gone? KOTOR, Jade Empire, FF,Kingdom hearts...... WTF?! These games can be beaten in under 20 hours! Come on. Does anyone feel my plight? :?

Indeed. Really, I am shaking my head at the play time a lot of games have lately. The lack of effort is starting to really show.
 
Per said:
Who's Aeris?
Beats me. I have always considered console RPGs to be the lower echelon of gaming. I remember playing a PC demo of FF8 and rolling my eyes at piss-poor graphics and soap opera characters. So Aeris, whoever she is, will need to come to terms with the fact that I have no interest in meeting her.
 
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