Dark Tower: The Gunslinger

Got it.

Found it, too. It's at the end of the unrevised edition, just like you said.

Anywho, it seems you're partially right, Welsh. The idea of the Dark Tower came to him in college, but he actually wrote the book along the same time that he was writing others. He wrote a chapter at a time, every so often. When he wasn't getting anywhere with Salem's Lot he wrote the chapter where Jake "dies", and it wasn't until he wrote The Stand that he thought about adding Randall Flagg in the mix.

So the Dark Tower was in fact shaped around the other books...the other books weren't shaped around the Dark Tower.
 
You two are way to into this shit. The best way to ruin anything you love is to read into it too much. You two are crossing that line with this nitpicking and analysis.

-so says Murdoch
 
:violent: :moon: To Murdoch-

Yes, we're nitpicking. But this is important more for a discussion of horror and writing craft than for any hokey fictional mythological creation.

Lovecraft did have a mythos. If you read his work he had a structure before he wrote. Even Howard, when writing the Conan stories, took the time to actually write out a history of his world, in a smaller and more readable version of the kind of think Tolkien did. (For those who doubt- check out the appendix of Robert E Howard, The COming of COnan, recently reissued. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-6732704-6195319?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

and it kicks ass!

This is also about the difference in what fans see and what an author writes. My point is simple, the fans are seeing a structure that didn't exist until they created it. In a sense it's a rather post-modern phenomena of fans creating a story that doesn't exist.
 
I don't think I made my point clear enough.
I don't believe that King had the original intention of trying to build a whole mythology off of the Dark Tower. Rather, I believe that over the years, and with the numerous books that he has written, I believe that the Dark Tower mythos has evolved so that it incorporates all of King's stories. King has made the Tower the unifying factor in his works. He has made all of his worlds connected in one, single mythology, unified by the Dark Tower. It wasn't originally meant to be like that, but King has made it so.
 
OK, big guy. Now you have the puzzle in your lap.

When you make an argument that says all Stephen King Books relate to the Dark Tower, then you must prove it.

Like saying all Ravens are Black, get one white Raven and you've blown it. Get one Raven that is ash grey and you're still in trouble.

Based on your evidence proven thus far, your argument doesn't hold water. Both links point to books that have no connection to the Dark Tower mythology.

That said, I think that's a fun challenge.

What is the connection between, say, the Shining and the Dark Tower (it's there if you look for it).
 
Danny/anyone that can "shine" can possibly be considered breakers, no?

Connect Misery and The Dark Tower. Therein lies a challenge.
 
The Shining: Definitely, like Malk said. The "Shine" is the "touch" that Jake is so strong in. It's also what Ted Brautigan had, and why the Crimson King tried to capture him.

As for Misery, I haven't read the book yet, but now that you've challenged me, I'll have to go out and do that now.
 
Actually I don't think there's a connection between Misery and Dark Tower. I was just making a point that there are few King worlds that have nothing to do with DT.
 
Hardly very few. There's actually an official list that King puts in the front pages of the Dark Tower books. I already posted that above:
I said:
Salem's Lot
The Stand
The Talisman
It
The Eyes of the Dragon
Insomnia
Rose Madder
Desperation
Black House
Bag of Bones
From a Buick 8
The Regulators
Skeleton Crew
Hearts in Atlantis
Everything's Eventual
Click to expand...

His other works, he has mentioned in interviews and the like, all connect, or will connect, in some way to the DT series.
 
That link between the Shining and the Dark Towers is pretty damn thin.

This whole thing looks like a 9th Inning ploy to make King look like a literary genius.

Seriously, if you want to look at a creative mythology that was carefully crafted- read Lovecraft. That people are still making Cthulu references only hints at how good some of that stuff was.
 
I mostly agree with welsh here. Some of the links (such as Hearts in Atlantis) were obviously intentional, but others seem to be crowbarred in at the last minute (like 'Salem's Lot).
 
I dunno about crowbarred in at the last minute. The entire fifth book involves Father Callahan, one of the main characters in 'Salem's Lot, and he joins the ka-tet. That doesn't seem to me to be a last minute attempt to jam something in. That connection is obviously clear, even going so far as to have the book 'Salem's Lot appear in the book collection that they brought back through the door. King almost definitely didn't intend originally for all of these connections to happen, but he has made a point to bridge all of his works to the Dark Tower series, in one way or another. And while the stories may not seem like they have anything to do with the Dark Tower (like the Shining), there are certain elements that are very related (the touch).
 
King of Creation said:
I dunno about crowbarred in at the last minute. The entire fifth book involves Father Callahan, one of the main characters in 'Salem's Lot, and he joins the ka-tet.
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Yeah, but it just didn't seem to fit for me. Almost as if King decided to bring him in to make it seem like it all was connected, rather than as a part of a coherent plot.

I also think that the Shining wasn't originally anything to do with the Touch. They just happen to have similarities, so the could be connected if you so desired to.
 
I feel like I'm repeating myself here.
As for the Touch and the Shine not originally being connected, that's most likely true. As I've been trying to explain, I believe that King had no real original intention of connecting all of his works like its turning into. However, he has written his stories since in such a way that one can draw connections between them all in some way, with his point being to try and craft a semblance of a coherent Dark Tower mythology throughout his stories. He's trying to do this now, though, after the fact. I think he just finds it interesting that he's able to do something like this, because he's written so many different stories, and he has so many elements to draw from.
 
I love the Dark Tower series. But I didn't even know that there were more books after Wizard and Glass! I'll have to look for them.
 
King of Creation said:
I feel like I'm repeating myself here.
As for the Touch and the Shine not originally being connected, that's most likely true. As I've been trying to explain, I believe that King had no real original intention of connecting all of his works like its turning into. However, he has written his stories since in such a way that one can draw connections between them all in some way, with his point being to try and craft a semblance of a coherent Dark Tower mythology throughout his stories. He's trying to do this now, though, after the fact. I think he just finds it interesting that he's able to do something like this, because he's written so many different stories, and he has so many elements to draw from.
Click to expand...

Ok King, but that's the point.


It's one thing to have a character like Father Callahan who leaves Salem's Lot as a priest who has had his faith tested and lost. Now that was a great way to deal with a character. Not only was he not killed, he just fades away.

Then the author thinks, "hmmm... where is this story going now, let's throw in this great character that is a spare part from a left over story."

Ok, it's his story, he can do what he wants with it- but it smells of sequels and sequels are mostly there just to make money, I think.

But it's quite another to have intended that all along and has carefully crafted a book. So this is after-the-fact reasoning. What I am puzzled with is what is behind this notion and what is it's intent?

What would annoy more is the fans saying that they are all connected. Only in their mind.

This is after-the-fact reasoning, a desire to super-impose a sense of order on a fictional universe where perhaps none really existed or really should exist. The only way I see this as working, and the way I think it will, is that the stories really are just about Stephen King himself.

A final plug before retirement to read his books. Personally I am glad Blaine the Mono died. That idea was just silly. To be honest, the books seem to have gone downhill since the first one.
 
I have read 1-4 and am currently going through V. I would say its pretty good and well done for a non horror story.
 
Karkow said:
Dark Tower: The Gunslinger

I’ve bought this Stephen Kings’ book today. I’ve wanted to read all the books of the Dark Tower for awhile now. I’ve read a few books of Stephen King, I own about 8 of them and probably re-read Eyes of the Dragon, Insomnia and Bag of Bones about 3 or 4 times already, so when I knew about this epic I was naturally curious.

My question is to anyone who has read this book or even the collection of Dark Tower:

What did you though about it?

Please no spoilers.
Click to expand...

It started out well, pacey and it packed a punch. Every book since the first one has been worse, as King fleshes out the characters and the series becomes bogged down and repetitive. Now I buy the new ones out of a morbid fascination to see how King can possibly make it worse. The Song of Susannah, apart from being deeply boring in most parts, is a direct assault upon rationality. King wastes no opportunity to pour scorn on the rational stance, and his hatred for science and scientists is all too apparent.

Voila, there is my review, and I stand by it. Mark my words, King is suffering from the affliction that strikes most ageing ex-alcoholics - a spiralling descent into pretty rigid christian belief. I think it's a bit of a shame...
 
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