Darwin award
- Thread starter Briosafreak
- Start date
Well, that's kinda the whole thing in the movies. Its like having a Highlander game where you die if you get shot.kumquatq3 said:
One of the best examples here is X-Com. They started with Apocalypse, then Intercepter and by the time Enforcer came around there was f-all fans to lose.St P said:
But yeh, the fans are the people who want to buy it. If they don't like it, who's gonna buy it?
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Hell, I knew Gamespy was full of shit when they released their article on the 20 Most Overrated Games.
MGS2? Morrowind? Donkey Kong Country?
Fucking wankers.
Also, for somebody to win a Darwin Award they have to effectively remove themselves from the Gene Pool... unless you guys are planning to do something you're not telling us.
MGS2? Morrowind? Donkey Kong Country?
Fucking wankers.
Also, for somebody to win a Darwin Award they have to effectively remove themselves from the Gene Pool... unless you guys are planning to do something you're not telling us.
The physopathic Polock
Still Mildly Glowing
Theh Spy/Counterspy said:
Of course. Too bad it's neither one of you this time, though, huh?
DarkUnderlord
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Quiet you. We all know you're the only left at BiS.Puuk said:
Talk about feeble reasons to attack an article. The man said: "The best games come from a person or a team with a vision and the guts to bull through marketing weasels and lowest-common denominator thinking." Not small team, just team. Could be 5000 people putting together the greatest game of their careers and it's still included in that statement.
How does his statement at all neglect or leave out anyone involved in the process of brainstorming an idea, running with it, and shouting to the heavens, "Fuck the FO community, we want our deathclaws to have hair!!!"
It doesn't. I'm not sure why everyone's jumping on the man's case other than the fact that he dissed FO fanatics. And some of us deserve to get dissed periodically (Have you been to the boards recently?)
In the case of Zelda, it was one man who pushed through the idea. He sat down one day and said, "You know what, let's screw the Zelda fans and go in the opposite direction of where they want us to go...Zelda the animated series!" Many fans hated him. A man with a plan and a TEAM (note how the writer mentioned the word "team" in the same sentence) created a great game.
Doesn't always...Daikatana...work that way...Daikatana...Black and White....
BTW, MGS2 and Morrowind were overrated. My roommate asking me every half hour, "So...do you play this game or watch it" contributed to my pissiness (if you like Max Payne 2, you won't notice). And Morrowind lost me half an hour into it....
And spy/counterspy isn't a copout. Hannity and Colmes/Crossfire/McClaughlin Group. Sometimes giving a balanced view requires taking both sides of the conflict in order to hold contradictory readers' attentions (note how no one is attacking the side they agree with).
How does his statement at all neglect or leave out anyone involved in the process of brainstorming an idea, running with it, and shouting to the heavens, "Fuck the FO community, we want our deathclaws to have hair!!!"
It doesn't. I'm not sure why everyone's jumping on the man's case other than the fact that he dissed FO fanatics. And some of us deserve to get dissed periodically (Have you been to the boards recently?)
In the case of Zelda, it was one man who pushed through the idea. He sat down one day and said, "You know what, let's screw the Zelda fans and go in the opposite direction of where they want us to go...Zelda the animated series!" Many fans hated him. A man with a plan and a TEAM (note how the writer mentioned the word "team" in the same sentence) created a great game.
Doesn't always...Daikatana...work that way...Daikatana...Black and White....
BTW, MGS2 and Morrowind were overrated. My roommate asking me every half hour, "So...do you play this game or watch it" contributed to my pissiness (if you like Max Payne 2, you won't notice). And Morrowind lost me half an hour into it....
And spy/counterspy isn't a copout. Hannity and Colmes/Crossfire/McClaughlin Group. Sometimes giving a balanced view requires taking both sides of the conflict in order to hold contradictory readers' attentions (note how no one is attacking the side they agree with).
Basil Zen said:
Seeing as how this is your first post here, I don't think you should be using "us" just yet. And that's some strange reasoning no matter what other, if any, FO sites you post on - "deserve to get dissed periodically"? What boards are you talking about?
I used to wonder why people got so angry about idiots flaming "fallout fanatics" - until I started reading post after worthless post by people with the writing skills of a 12 year old saying the same thing about FO fans in general or NMA and DAC in specific, with no actual reason given beyond "those guys are assholes". It gets intensely aggrivating when every moron does it, and especially when the majority of them are on the same intellectual level as the BIS forum goers who'll make thread after thread asking "OMG, will I be able to ride a pony in BG3?!??!?! PLEAZ RPLY!!!!" and the always timely "BG3 GOT CANCELLED!!??!!?!!?!??!?".
The bottom line is that this guy wrote a poor article, made some idiotic statements, and threw in a cheap shot at FO fans using the most ridiculous possible ammo of all, "they don't like hairy deathclaws!!!!". As far as the "teams" comment goes, I'd say that Puuk has the reading comprehension skills to accurately infer what the guy was saying in his article, and judging by his posts he's a much better writer than him as well.
I honestly have no clue what the hell you're talking about here. I doubt that "Legend of Zelda" had a fan base before it was actually released as a game, unless time machines were recently invented and no one told me about it. Did the article mention anything about a cartoon series, or did it just say "Legend of Zelda"? Not, "LoZ: Wind Walker", or "LoZ: The Animated Series", but plain old "Legend of Zelda". Who are you refering to when you say "many fans hated him"? I'm sorry, but I don't have the magical version of the internet where Gamespy's articles and your posts are automatically translated into whatever it is you think they're getting across.
NMA's not the only FO board. And I said "some of us" not "every single one of us who has ever posted on an FO board."
Fallout fans do often skew toward the lowest common denominator of fan input. Before I knew both sides of the story (if indeed that's the whole story as it was told to me...until someone comes forward with an article explaining the FO:T wars to me, I'll have to qualify it), I basically wrote off a large chunk of Fallout fans as assholes and even felt guilty myself for blowing off FO:T (I didn't like strategy games or the Brotherhood of Steel was my real reason...after a bit of therapy, the guilt is gone). This was BEFORE I knew that it was a widely-held belief...it was based solely on my personal experiences.
As for the "OMG BG3 got cancelled!?!?!?!?!" folks, it is unfair to create some sort of hierarchical rift between these people and FO fans. FO fans often write the same way, FO fans often have less to say, and while you in particular may be able to voice your opinions clearly without the use of Leetspeak, that does not raise all Fallout fans to your level or lower all Baldur's Gate fans beneath you.
Besides, even some of the most intelligent and articulate writers can come across as whiny control-freaks, as witnessed in the first ever post I read on the BIS forums. Therefore, I tend not to judge a person's opinion by how well they write but by what they actually have to say. Hell, I got an 800 on my SAT II's, does that mean everything I write is beyond question?
Which is why I don't give Puuk the benefit of the doubt just because he's articulate and well-written. Maybe he gets bonus points for usually being fair and open-minded, but he misquoted the writer of that article, a line of people jumped on the bandwagon behind him (including you), and the writer's not getting a fair shake. Not that he would, since he insulted the people who frequent these boards and caused them to infer something about him that was not actually written and does not even fit into the context of his article at all.
It was an interesting, informative, and even-handed article given the deadlines gamespy folks probably have to work with in the internet era. I found myself agreeing with the writer/s that fan input is important to account for but that it can also be a huge thorn in your ass and sometimes you have to say, "Thank you for your time, we'll get back to you."
I get plenty of condescension when I go home for the holidays, so I did not need it here. Fallout had a fanbase before Fallout 2 was released. The same is to be said for The Legend of Zelda. To clarify for those who are unaware of when exactly The Legend of Zelda series was pushed past "marketing weasels" and vocal fans and do not understand what I meant by "Zelda: The Animated Series" ... LoZ (Legend of Zelda): WW (Windwaker) took an oppositional approach to the visual presentation of the game in contrast to what many fans hoped they would see based on LoZ:Ocarina.
In Ocarina (which I only ever played the day I bought WW...go freebies!), we saw more realistically proportioned figures than we saw in the original game and in the Super Nintendo version and in the gameboy games. This was the next gen Zelda, people thought. Suddenly, Miyamoto (I think that's his name) announced that he was going for a different look to make it stand out. He showed images of a very cartoony, disproportionate, unrealistic Zelda. Many fans wanted Soul Calibur II Zelda (complete with an apparently bulging junk???), not Zelda: The Animated Series.
But there were important facets of gameplay that required a return to the freaky midget Zelda from the first game and the gameboy games that could not be achieved with a pointy-eared Solid Snake in a tunic. There was a point behind the change in format, and it was actually a return in form to the original. But fans could not look past that and still complain about how cartoony it is, and don't praise it for kicking ass Hell's Angels style.
Fallout fans do often skew toward the lowest common denominator of fan input. Before I knew both sides of the story (if indeed that's the whole story as it was told to me...until someone comes forward with an article explaining the FO:T wars to me, I'll have to qualify it), I basically wrote off a large chunk of Fallout fans as assholes and even felt guilty myself for blowing off FO:T (I didn't like strategy games or the Brotherhood of Steel was my real reason...after a bit of therapy, the guilt is gone). This was BEFORE I knew that it was a widely-held belief...it was based solely on my personal experiences.
As for the "OMG BG3 got cancelled!?!?!?!?!" folks, it is unfair to create some sort of hierarchical rift between these people and FO fans. FO fans often write the same way, FO fans often have less to say, and while you in particular may be able to voice your opinions clearly without the use of Leetspeak, that does not raise all Fallout fans to your level or lower all Baldur's Gate fans beneath you.
Besides, even some of the most intelligent and articulate writers can come across as whiny control-freaks, as witnessed in the first ever post I read on the BIS forums. Therefore, I tend not to judge a person's opinion by how well they write but by what they actually have to say. Hell, I got an 800 on my SAT II's, does that mean everything I write is beyond question?
Which is why I don't give Puuk the benefit of the doubt just because he's articulate and well-written. Maybe he gets bonus points for usually being fair and open-minded, but he misquoted the writer of that article, a line of people jumped on the bandwagon behind him (including you), and the writer's not getting a fair shake. Not that he would, since he insulted the people who frequent these boards and caused them to infer something about him that was not actually written and does not even fit into the context of his article at all.
It was an interesting, informative, and even-handed article given the deadlines gamespy folks probably have to work with in the internet era. I found myself agreeing with the writer/s that fan input is important to account for but that it can also be a huge thorn in your ass and sometimes you have to say, "Thank you for your time, we'll get back to you."
I get plenty of condescension when I go home for the holidays, so I did not need it here. Fallout had a fanbase before Fallout 2 was released. The same is to be said for The Legend of Zelda. To clarify for those who are unaware of when exactly The Legend of Zelda series was pushed past "marketing weasels" and vocal fans and do not understand what I meant by "Zelda: The Animated Series" ... LoZ (Legend of Zelda): WW (Windwaker) took an oppositional approach to the visual presentation of the game in contrast to what many fans hoped they would see based on LoZ:Ocarina.
In Ocarina (which I only ever played the day I bought WW...go freebies!), we saw more realistically proportioned figures than we saw in the original game and in the Super Nintendo version and in the gameboy games. This was the next gen Zelda, people thought. Suddenly, Miyamoto (I think that's his name) announced that he was going for a different look to make it stand out. He showed images of a very cartoony, disproportionate, unrealistic Zelda. Many fans wanted Soul Calibur II Zelda (complete with an apparently bulging junk???), not Zelda: The Animated Series.
But there were important facets of gameplay that required a return to the freaky midget Zelda from the first game and the gameboy games that could not be achieved with a pointy-eared Solid Snake in a tunic. There was a point behind the change in format, and it was actually a return in form to the original. But fans could not look past that and still complain about how cartoony it is, and don't praise it for kicking ass Hell's Angels style.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Basil here is the quote again:
Tell me those games were made by ONE person or a SMALL TEAM.
You`re bound to win the next darwin award if you don`t stop a bit and read things a little better.
Tell me those games were made by ONE person or a SMALL TEAM.
You`re bound to win the next darwin award if you don`t stop a bit and read things a little better.
Jesus, this Rausch guy is an idiot. I make a serious comment of his article and he responds by going on and on about how Fallout fans are angry, insane and hostile, how they are the worst example of fan-feedback and how he gets hate mail from them all the time (notice how he speaks in third person, without addressing me in a single comment - talk about lousy online manners). I made another big post, in which I refrained from calling him a dumb idiot, but I wonder if there is any point in attempting to reason with the fool. Of course, everybody else on the forum agrees with him so blindly and narrow-mindedly that just reading their posts makes me sick. I could really use some backup there. Anybody up for causing a little flame mayhem on Gamespy? 
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Ah you`re right, the dumbass is trying to clear his track.
Ok Basil you`re excused this time, since you didn`t knew what he wrote the first time, but still you could have read the rest of the posts in this thread.
Ok Basil you`re excused this time, since you didn`t knew what he wrote the first time, but still you could have read the rest of the posts in this thread.
Sorry for dragging this on, but I still don't know where he got that "Legend of Zelda" stuff from. The article didn't qualify it at all, and when I hear it mentioned without the name of the sequel attached I assume the original one is being referenced. The Zelda series has never attempted much continuity anyway, so it's a poor arguement.
For any BIS posters wondering what the main reason FOT was hated by most Fallout fans was: imagine if for Icewind Dale 3, the developers decided that the Dale was actually in a temperate climate, had very little snow, and was a bustling hive of commerce and activity. Or better yet, imagine Baldur's Gate 3 being made where the Bhaalspawn were called "Tormspawn" for no apparent reason, Baldur's Gate was full of electric machinery and cars, and the events of the previous 2 games were completely ignored. Sounds good, eh? Oh wait, I'm trying to appeal to reason - what was I thinking?
For any BIS posters wondering what the main reason FOT was hated by most Fallout fans was: imagine if for Icewind Dale 3, the developers decided that the Dale was actually in a temperate climate, had very little snow, and was a bustling hive of commerce and activity. Or better yet, imagine Baldur's Gate 3 being made where the Bhaalspawn were called "Tormspawn" for no apparent reason, Baldur's Gate was full of electric machinery and cars, and the events of the previous 2 games were completely ignored. Sounds good, eh? Oh wait, I'm trying to appeal to reason - what was I thinking?
Hey, that sounds pretty cool!Montez said:
Briosafreak said:
Fact of the matter is, I had originally thought they all were being the dumbasses and paraphrasing what he said, not quoting him. But if he edited himself after the fact, then that's just shady.
The last time Zelda hit headlines was for the specific incident mentioned. Miyamoto said, "Screw the fans" and created a better game in the long run. Now, whether or not Zelda's continuity applies, the idea behind occasionally ignoring fan input for a game's vision still does in this case.
Okay, I played FOT. First, you would have to put BG3 before BG2 and separate BG1 + BG2 by 100 years. Second, much of FO:T takes place high in the Rocky Mountains, which are decidedly not Southern California. Had Fallout been called "Ground Zero Anaheim: A Post-Apocalyptic Roleplaying Game," then I would probably be complaining about the change in climate and the perceived difference in populations (actually, I'm not really following the whole bustling city scenario here...as I haven't seen any in FO:T).
And Baldur's Gate goes steampunk? Help me with that one. Technology's pretty much the same between all three games.
Talking deathclaws with hair, brown Nuka-Cola, Brotherhood Advanced Power Armor, and changing the company's name from Vault-Tek to West-Tek (or vice-versa) compose just about all of the continuity flaws in the game. You might say that the use of real-world weapon types does, too, but that ignores the notorious .44 desert eagle from FO1.
FO:T is like Fallout's Icewind Dale...done by a different company with better graphics. Icewind Dale had the benefit of decades of backstory its creators would be afraid to contradict, but it too is pretty much Baldur's Gate's bastard half-brother. It just didn't have the problem of years of anticipation for the next Baldur's Gate installment thanks to expansion packs and really, really long playing times.
Finger Pointing
Finger Pointing
This editing slight of hand implies this critic has a lack of moral clarity.
When the 'end justifies the means', reason and logic, and honesty, become conditional victims to the "need to feed" the emotional sub context.
Maybe he wrote that to impress Jodie Foster........
I am not buying the moral superiority of the anti-FO rhetoric.
4too
Finger Pointing
This editing slight of hand implies this critic has a lack of moral clarity.
When the 'end justifies the means', reason and logic, and honesty, become conditional victims to the "need to feed" the emotional sub context.
Maybe he wrote that to impress Jodie Foster........
I am not buying the moral superiority of the anti-FO rhetoric.
4too