Decadent Round up Yet Again

First, the word "apocalypse" is ancient and it fits much better into a pseudo-Roman setting than into anything modern.

apocalypse

noun
1. a cosmic cataclysm in which God destroys the ruling powers of evil
2. the last book of the New Testament; contains visionary descriptions of heaven and of conflicts between good and evil and of the end of the world; attributed to Saint John the Apostle

Second, let's take the Deluge, for example. Wouldn't you agree that a post-Deluge society could be easily described as post-apocalyptic? Same goes for Atlantis, if we stick with the legends and assume that it was a reasonably advanced (comparing to their neighbors) society which was suddenly destroyed in a single night, forcing the locals to flee to nearby continents and start from scratch.
 
Wooz said:
The in-game shots look amazing, especially since that old "mudcrabs" screenshot.
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This game will have mudcrabs!? That's it, I'm not playing it. Also, those graphics look more like Q3 2002 than Q2 2003 to me.
 
VDweller said:
First, the word "apocalypse" is ancient and it fits much better into a pseudo-Roman setting than into anything modern.
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If you were discussing "The Apocalypse", as in the 4 horsemen, then I agree it does fit within the ancient Roman times era. The term post-apocalyptic though brings to mind a post holocaust modern real world environment for me. Probably because I've seen it used that way in books, movies and games. Not to mention that in the Apocolypse (in the biblical sense) I don't think there was meant to be a "Post" environment.

Either way the game does look very good and I'm looking forward to finally seeing an old style RPG again... and hopefully a demo as well.

Mick
 
Mick1965 said:
The term post-apocalyptic though brings to mind a post holocaust modern real world environment for me.
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post-apocalyptic just means that there was a apocalyptic event of some sort (nuclear, made by god, a big comet impact, a volcano eruption with global effects, whatever...) and we're now in the time after this event. what it brings to your mind is not relevant.
 
star said:
what it brings to your mind is not relevant.
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My comment on what I think of when I hear the term "Post-Apocolyptic" is no different to VDweller stating that he feels the term "Apocolyptic" best fits the Roman era. It's an opinion and we're all allowed to have them, if we're discussing it nicely.

On the other hand, you stating that my opinion is irrelevant is not so nice, so you can go and fuck off!

Mick
 
Mick1965 said:
star said:
what it brings to your mind is not relevant.
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My comment on what I think of when I hear the term "Post-Apocolyptic" is no different to VDweller stating that he feels the term "Apocolyptic" best fits the Roman era. It's an opinion and we're all allowed to have them, if we're discussing it nicely.

On the other hand, you stating that my opinion is irrelevant is not so nice, so you can go and fuck off!

Mick
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Somehow, you fail to understand how VDweller's post is an ARGUMENT and your post is a FACT. He said it fits the roman era and showed some arguments. You said the first thing that came to your mind was technology and whatnot. It's not your opinion, it's a FACT that the first thing that comes to your mind is technology and stuff. So don't go all innocent and childish over this, hoping, like everyone else, that it's always a matter of opinion. What it brings to your mind is not relevant AT ALL.
 
Morbus said:
Somehow, you fail to understand how VDweller's post is an ARGUMENT and your post is a FACT. He said it fits the roman era and showed some arguments. You said the first thing that came to your mind was technology and whatnot. It's not your opinion, it's a FACT that the first thing that comes to your mind is technology and stuff. So don't go all innocent and childish over this, hoping, like everyone else, that it's always a matter of opinion. What it brings to your mind is not relevant AT ALL.
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What???

We're discussing games here, not realism. I said that the PA genre leads me think of literature/movies/games in a certain way, which is more your modern society after a some sort of holocaust. I didn't mention any facts at all, just how I felt about the genre. That's a personal opinion, and I'm sure many others would feel differently. VDweller on the other hand mentioned some facts, citing the meaning of the word Apocolypse etc. Interestingly, I wonder how a library would categorise this game if it were a book. I think it would be listed under the Fantasy genre, whereas FO would definately be listed under PA (if there is such a genre listing).

I'm not sure that I follow your point. Maybe I reacted a little brashly to Star's comment, but I was annoyed that he said my opinion was irrelevent. I don't know why you're calling me childish, but I'd rather not get into an argument so close to Christmas, so it's probably better just to let it be. Agreed? :)

Mick
 
Mick1965 said:
What???
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No, seriously, you said it modern setting comes to your mind when you think of PA. Nice, that's ok. But what comes to yours or anybody's mind for that fact doesn't matter. What I talk about cheese it comes to mind sweaty feet... So what? Does it matter?

What I mean is that you hiding behind the usual fallacious "opinion" argument. What you said is not an opinion. It's a fact. That has nothing to do with anything, per chance.

Mick1965 said:
I'm not sure that I follow your point. Maybe I reacted a little brashly to Star's comment, but I was annoyed that he said my opinion was irrelevent.
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That's the thing. He didn't say that!

Mick1965 said:
I don't know why you're calling me childish, but I'd rather not get into an argument so close to Christmas, so it's probably better just to let it be. Agreed? :)
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I like arguing. It's like my style of praying. So the more I argue the better I am. Anyway, I didn't mean to call you childish, I said it's childish to expect everything to be a matter of opinion. If you expect that, then I'll call you childish. If not, that's ok.

Once again...

You say the first thing that comes to your mind when you think of a post apocalypse is a modern setting. This is a fact (unless you're lying, which you have no reason to), because it's about what comes to YOUR mind first.

VDweller said his opinion about what is and what's not a post apocalypse. He showed some arguments and stuff. He wasn't talking about what comes to his mind first, because that'd be irrelevant, just as it is irrelevant what comes to your mind. Now, if you want to make an argument out of that fact, you're in for some bashing, I think, because you'd be saying "a post apocalypse has to be in a modern setting because that's the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of a post apocalyptic world". Not a good argument.

So, for the sake of a healthy discussion, let's keep to more logical and civilized arguments, like VDweller's, and talk about what a post apocalypse is, or how AoD should be rated, and that kind of stuff.

For the record, "fantasy" is ANYTHING that is not factual. Any plot that is fictional is passive of being rated as fantasy. The games commonly know as fantasy games, are set in medieval high fantasy (or low fantasy) settings. Medieval fantasy. classical fantasy (although those are rare, because classical settings aren't usually depicted with fantasy) and whatnot. We say a setting is post apocalyptic because there has been a (massive) holocaust and the world is still scared from it. Age of Decadence, as far as I know, features such a setting, so I don't see why it shouldn't be considered a post apocalyptic game. Because it has swords and bows? Save me, please. That's no logic. You could say it's because it has (low) magic, but that wouldn't make a different. It's just a post-apocalyptic low fantasy roman inspired world, so what?
 
Sorry for the slow responses, it's a busy time with all the Christmas stuff.

Morbus said:
So, for the sake of a healthy discussion, let's keep to more logical and civilized arguments, like VDweller's, and talk about what a post apocalypse is, or how AoD should be rated, and that kind of stuff.
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Agreed.

Morbus said:
For the record, "fantasy" is ANYTHING that is not factual. Any plot that is fictional is passive of being rated as fantasy. The games commonly know as fantasy games, are set in medieval high fantasy (or low fantasy) settings. Medieval fantasy. classical fantasy (although those are rare, because classical settings aren't usually depicted with fantasy) and whatnot.
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Well, it's a fictional world, rather than a fictional setting within the real world. And there are swords, castles, knights, thieves etc. So even if the setting is Roman it's not such a stretch that it could be considered a Fantasy game.

A lot fiction crosses genre boundaries, such as War movies with some Romance and vice versa, so AoD could be listed under multiple genres. I'm not saying AoD shouldn't be considered PA at all, just that its elements make it more of a Fantasy game with a PA background story. At the end of the day the creators of the game can label it any way they wish; and I'm not dissing the game because it looks intriguing, not to mention it has some good RPG elements that are missing from games today.

An interesting experiment would be describing all of the elements of AoD's story to someone who classifies books or movies for a living, just to see how they would categorise it.

In retrospect I did respond hastily to Star. I should have pointed out that I was talking about PA in reference to classifying fiction within the genre, not arguing the definition of the word "Apocalypse" or the term "Post Apocalypse".

Mick
 
Mick1965 said:
Well, it's a fictional world, rather than a fictional setting within the real world. And there are swords, castles, knights, thieves etc. So even if the setting is Roman it's not such a stretch that it could be considered a Fantasy game.
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So fantasy equals swords, castles, knights and thieves? The Rome - Total War is fantasy?
 
Morbus said:
So fantasy equals swords, castles, knights and thieves? The Rome - Total War is fantasy?
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Rome - Total War looks like a game set on Earth in the Roman Era, as opposed to AoD, which is set on a fictional world that has similarities to Roman culture. If AoD had been set within the real world in Roman times, but depicting a possible different time line with an apocalyptic event (as FO does) then it probably would belong in the PA genre rather than fantasy. Although this is not cut and dry as Island in the Sea of Time is categorised as fantasy, and that's a real world novel depicting a different time line.

Would you consider the movie Dawn of the Dead to be a PA movie? It depicts an apocalyptic event, and you see people struggling to survive afterwards. I wouldn't. I'd consider this a horror movie with a PA theme. My point is that not everything that includes an apocalytic event is categorised as PA. The Terminator movies for example are listed as Sci-Fi.

Mick
 
Mick1965 said:
Rome - Total War looks like a game set on Earth in the Roman Era, as opposed to AoD, which is set on a fictional world that has similarities to Roman culture. If AoD had been set within the real world in Roman times, but depicting a possible different time line with an apocalyptic event (as FO does) then it probably would belong in the PA genre rather than fantasy.
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So, then again, according to your definition, a Post Apocalyptic setting becomes fantasy if it's a fictional world. What about Gears of War, then? Is it not PA? Or any other setting with modern technology BUT set in a different world?

Mick1965 said:
Would you consider the movie Dawn of the Dead to be a PA movie? It depicts an apocalyptic event, and you see people struggling to survive afterwards. I wouldn't. I'd consider this a horror movie with a PA theme.
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Then I would consider AoD a role-playing game with a PA theme. Don't mix genres with settings...

Mick1965 said:
My point is that not everything that includes an apocalytic event is categorised as PA. The Terminator movies for example are listed as Sci-Fi.
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Well, actually, no movie that I know of is listed as "post apocalyptic". The setting may be, but then again, if the terminator movies' setting is classified as sci-fi, so could Fallout's setting. There are priorities, yes, but when we're talking about the setting, there are things to say, and you don't describe AoD's setting as PA (or terminator's for that matter), then you'll be missing something. What you are saying is that there is no "PA genre". According to you "post apocalyptic" is just a specification which will come AFTER the genre. For instance, Fallout is sci-fi in a post-apocalyptic setting. Fair enough. And what if AoD is fantasy in a post-apocalyptic setting? It doesn't mean it's not fantasy, so as it doesn't mean it's not PA.

When you first posted you said something like (I'm too lazy to check) "it's not PA, it's fantasy". Or something. I don't remember, but it was something of the sort. I answered to the PA part, not to the fantasy... Well, it's PA, that's for sure, it's probable that it's also fantasy, yes.
 
Morbus said:
For the record, "fantasy" is ANYTHING that is not factual.
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What? No. Fiction is anything that is not factual.

That said, this discussions is asinine. Are you guys even trying to make a point or just arguing for the sake of it?
 
Mostly because as an RPG game, it's a lot closer to what we're interested in then PA titles like Borderlands or Hellgate: London.

Any excuse to support a good indie effort. We did the same for The Omega Syndrome, before it tumbled.
 
WS, just take a look at AoD's combat video- it shows that AoD will be closer to our FOs than FO3 will ever be ~~
 
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