Did James have to kill himself in Fallout 3?

[Kalasanty11]

"Also who says the Vault didnt have books about disarming nuclear bombs? They have whole holotape archives of Libraries."

Pretty sure that is something they train people for in the military, not precisely the kind of thing you would be able to find in your local library.
Let me guess

Yup, that's what I was thinking about. Not to mention that it would be very specialized branch of military, some kind of elite engineers.

What is Megaton build around anyway? I mean as in some sort of reason to build it?

IIRC, they mentioned something about crater protecting them from dust storms or whatever. Well, I wouldn't expect good reason from guys building their town around nuke.
I actually like the reason Tenpenny gives you when you ask him why he wants to detonate nuke. He tells you about "helping process of natural selection". I couldn't say it better.

 

[Gizmojunk]

"Nuclear Weapons disarming for dummies"

Somehow I don't see a big market for that particular edition.

Oh that thing...



* Not worth the caps if you ask me.

 

[No Man]

Isn't it obvious? Our super special snowflake genius wargod protagonist, the Lone Wanderer didn't learn how to disarm nukes in the Vault! He learnt it on his way there when he was 1. And that was just revision - he knew this stuff when he was born.

 

[TheChosen1]

Or the Wasteland had plenty of nukes and the LW just practiced disarming them while he was invincible.

 

[Yamu]

As stupid as it was, I feel the unfortunate need to point out (as X12 did before me) the Lone Wanderer's not actually arming or (presumably) making any involved repairs to the bomb, he's just installing a "fusion pulse detonator" to... magically disengage the bomb's child safety lock? Whatever. I mean, not much else about the town makes sense, or the quest, and if all he's doing is installing a mechanical component the applicable skill would probably be repair instead of explosives, but at the very least they covered their asses as far as the question of whether your character actually had practical engineering knowledge of one of the rarest and most complex pieces of pre-war weapons tech still in existence.

Of course, if Burke had gotten a good enough look at the inside of the bomb to know exactly what he needed to do to get it to work, he could probably have installed the detonator himself in about two seconds flat at that point. Or gotten one of the crazies at the Church of the Atom to gratefully, gleefully do it for free anytime afterwards. But now we're getting way, waaaay off topic.

 

[No Man]

Back on topic then. Did James have to kill himself? Yes. Why? He's the guy who thinks the best way to solve a water contamination is by building one giant logistical nightmare of a purifier. When it didn't work, he didn't think that maybe a smaller scale solution would be a better idea. No, not James! He's going to pull a GECK into it. The point is, doing something smart or subtle like pretending to agree and then running away or getting help is not what James does. James does the big, emotional thing, because small and subtle might (and likely will) get over the head of the kid playing the game on his glorified NES. This is why people say FO3's final battle is better than Hoover Dam in NV - it's memorable, because giant fucking robot, dude!

 

[X12]

My main point was that the bomb isnt gonna accidentally explode by itself, it would have to be intentional. And whether you like it or not, Megaton is safe. Walled off, protected from the elements, water purification system. Only in that small puddle around the bomb is it radioactive, and most stay out of the puddle. Those cultist arent smart enough to make the bomb explode, and if they were they probably think blowing it up themselves would be "playing god". Megaton just never expected someone to outright want their settlement blown up. And lets be honest, most logical people wouldnt see any reasoning to blow up Megaton. The real fall in logic is why Tenpenny wanted it blown up: he wanted that piece of land. Well, you aint gonna be able to use it for quite a while, as its now a heavily irradiated crater.

Anyway i think its kinda harsh people think Megaton deserves to be blown up because it has a bomb in the center.

 

[H3rw00d1]

Anyway i think its kinda harsh people think Megaton deserves to be blown up because it has a bomb in the center.

It gets even more harsh that those types of people would think such things what with this existing: http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quirkies/Unexploded_bomb_used_as_school_bell

 

[Byzantine]

This is why people say FO3's final battle is better than Hoover Dam in NV - it's memorable, because giant fucking robot, dude!

You know, I actually forgot about the Iron Giant cameo in Fallout 3 until just now.

 

[Gizmojunk]

It's easy to do.

 

[Kalasanty11]

Megaton is safe.

I wouldn't say that town that allows random strangers to tinker with their atomb bomb is ever safe. Not to mention guy sitting in the middle of the bar asking random strangers to blow it up.

Only in that small puddle around the bomb is it radioactive, and most stay out of the puddle.

What about constant poisoning of the ground?

Those cultist arent smart enough to make the bomb explode

Just because they are part of idiotic cult doesn't mean they are all stupid. And we've seen enough people in our history trying to play gods.

And lets be honest, most logical people wouldnt see any reasoning to blow up Megaton.

One of the most developed organizations in DC (Talon Company) thinks it's good idea to hunt do-gooders and others to prevent order from returning to wasteland. I'd say that it's pretty good reason (from their point of view) to blow up a Megaton.

Anyway i think its kinda harsh people think Megaton deserves to be blown up because it has a bomb in the center.

No, they deserve to die because they spit in the face of natural selection.

 

[H3rw00d1]

What about constant poisoning of the ground?

Because the ground in the CW is so lush and healthy, surely this small puddle will kill everyone.

Just because they are part of idiotic cult doesn't mean they are all stupid. And we've seen enough people in our history trying to play gods.

Exactly, and TCoA are not one of them, they are not smart enough to do it. This is best seen when you see a splintered group of them in Broken Steel, you can go talk to their leader and say your their messiah. They don't believe you, so you go out get irradiated outside for a couple seconds and then next thing you know... "Oh shit, they really are the messiah, they're glowing!".

Besides, you mind telling me HOW they would know what to do? Because like you said, it would take more effort than 25 Explosives to do it, how would a bunch of crazies get the insight to do it?

One of the most developed organizations in DC (Talon Company) thinks it's good idea to hunt do-gooders and others to prevent order from returning to wasteland. I'd say that it's pretty good reason (from their point of view) to blow up a Megaton.

And I'm sure that Megaton will gladly open the city gates (they have gates, in the event you were going to state they would just bash the door down) to let them in right? "Oh hey, you guys here to destroy the town? Yeah, the bomb's right over there, just thought you'd wanna know".

No, they deserve to die because they spit in the face of natural selection.

People trying to do day to day life in a wasteland need to die because they're just really good at surviving? If anyone should be dying because of natural selection, it should be Tenpenny. He lives in a building with no source of food whatsoever (Megaton gets it's food from caravans) and he's still the richest man in the CW.

 

[Kalasanty11]

Because the ground in the CW is so lush and healthy, surely this small puddle will kill everyone.

Ground constantly poisoned by radiation from nuke will ensure that it will remain so "lush and healthy". Besides, "everything is dead" wasteland doesn't make sense anyway, 200 years after the war. Unless, there still would be some source of radiation poisoning the ground. Go figure.

Besides, you mind telling me HOW they would know what to do? Because like you said, it would take more effort than 25 Explosives to do it, how would a bunch of crazies get the insight to do it?

Hey, you just suggested another way of destroying Megaton easily. Someone from the outside (say, Talon) tells one of those fanatics (say, that one from Broken Steel) to use that little device that he suggests will help him better with his "divine mission". Guess what happens next?

And I'm sure that Megaton will gladly open the city gates (they have gates, in the event you were going to state they would just bash the door down) to let them in right?

Yeah, because taking off their combat armor is apparently some advanced infiltration technique. There are not enough Chinese Army: Special Ops Training Manuals in the world for them to get it.
You must have missed a part about retarded sheriff that allows random strangers not only to enter the town, but also tinker with the bomb.
Also, Megaton has the gates... and Talon Company has missile launchers. Kind of key opening most of the doors.

"Oh hey, you guys here to destroy the town? Yeah, the bomb's right over there, just thought you'd wanna know".

You do realize that you just pretty much summed up entire Power of Atom quest?

People trying to do day to day life in a wasteland need to die because they're just really good at surviving?

Yeah, indeed they are.

If anyone should be dying because of natural selection, it should be Tenpenny. He lives in a building with no source of food whatsoever (Megaton gets it's food from caravans) and he's still the richest man in the CW.

You are right, that doesn't make sense. Just like 90% of stuff in F3.

 

[H3rw00d1]

Ground constantly poisoned by radiation from nuke will ensure that it will remain so "lush and healthy". Besides, "everything is dead" wasteland doesn't make sense anyway, 200 years after the war. Unless, there still would be some source of radiation. Go figure.

The ground hasn't bothered them in 200 years, why should they start worrying now?

Hey, you just suggested another way of destroying Megaton easily. Someone from the outside (say, Talon) tells one of those fanatics (say, that from Broken Steel) to use that little device that he suggest will help him better with his "divine mission". Guess what happens next?

And I guess Lucas Simms would be A-OK with someone just bringing a pulse charge into the town and immediately heading to the bomb. He even states for you to stay away from it (and if Bethesda would bring up actual programming, he would probably chase after you if you did such a thing).

Yeah, because taking off their combat armor is apparently some advanced infiltration technique. There are not enough Chinese Army: Special Ops Training Manuals in the world for them to get it.

And I guess TC would just be able to put their all their armor and guns in their pants or something, also ignoring the town's police force which they'd have to deal with (and before you go "oh, Megaton would all get massacred", the AI in the game is not he best I'd admit, in-universe, Megaton could put up a fight probably).

Yeah, indeed they are.

And yet they managed to survive for 200 years, barely undisturbed...

Clearly they're scrubs at surviving, unlike those hardcore zombie movie survivors who survive for like a day or two, those ZMS's are the real survivors!!!!!!

 

[Kalasanty11]

The ground hasn't bothered them in 200 years, why should they start worrying now?

What, those "hardcore survivors" don't realize that agriculture helps you to survive? Apparently one brahmin is enough for them...

And I guess Lucas Simms would be A-OK with someone just bringing a pulse charge into the town and immediately heading to the bomb. He even states for you to stay away from it (and if Bethesda would bring up actual programming, he would probably chase after you if you did such a thing).

Simms is so incompetent that he didn't search the guy he just had arrested (which results in his death), why would he search someone else? Besides, Children of Atom are denizens of this town, why would he search them everytime they re-enter it?
No, not really, he doesn't tell you to "stay away from it". You can just tell him that you can disarm it and he gives you a free hand. Yup, he is that retarded.

And I guess TC would just be able to put their all their armor and guns in their pants or something, also ignoring the town's police force which they'd have to deal with (and before you go "oh, Megaton would all get massacred", the AI in the game is not he best I'd admit, in-universe, Megaton could put up a fight probably).

Have you even played that game? You can freely enter Megaton with bad intent (insulting sheriff, bad karma which he somehow recognizes) and he still doesn't take your weapon or armor. Obviously, bad design. Just compare it to what Obsidian did with entering casinos. Besides, Talons wouldn't need their weapons inside. Pulse charge would be enough. Even if sheriff for some reason decided to search them, he wouldn'd probably recognize what is it.

And yet they managed to survive for 200 years, barely undisturbed...

Except that Megaton doesn't have 200 years - it was established by father of one of the denizens. The fact that they survived while wasteland is populated by hostile Talons with fat-men and missile launchers and sm behemots is truly a miracle. Though I'd rather bet on crappy writting. Just like Tenpenny Tower... which you pointed out yourself.

 

[No Man]

Megaton gets it's food from caravans

And how do they pay for it? Do the caravaneers deliver food for a smile and a handjob? Because I didn't really see any source of income substaintial enough to keep the entire town on external supplies alone.

And I guess TC would just be able to put their all their armor and guns in their pants or something, also ignoring the town's police force which they'd have to deal with (and before you go "oh, Megaton would all get massacred", the AI in the game is not he best I'd admit, in-universe, Megaton could put up a fight probably).

TC would be able to sent an explosives expert in regular clothing and I'd like to remind you: Simms is known to trust a complete stranger with that bomb. Stranger, was going to have his eyes on, possibly.

And yet they managed to survive for 200 years

They need not to die in the name of natural selection. They need to die in the name of logic. Almost everyone in DC should.

 

[H3rw00d1]

What, those "hardcore survivors" don't realize that agriculture helps you to survive? Apparently one brahmin is enough for them...

Apparently so, considering that they've survived with one brahmin. And what are they going to use to move the bomb anyway, their bare hands? In fact, would YOU want to touch the bomb after it's been sitting there doing nothing for 200 years, since you seem like it would be piss easy to do it.

Simms is so incompetent that he didn't search the guy he just had arrested (which results in his death), why would he search someone else? Besides, Children of Atom are denizens of this town, why would he search them everytime they re-enter it?
No, not really, he doesn't tell you to "stay away from it". You can just tell him that you can disarm it and he gives you a free hand. Yup, he is that retarded.

A better question would be "Why are TCoA leaving the city for no reason?". There's nothing outside for them, they're just going out... just cause. If the LW enters the city for the first time wearing a Vault suit, he acknowledges that your from the vault (and before you state "it could just be a wastelander in a vault uniform", vault suits aren't common in CW, and there's a vault right up the street), like you said, there should be no way a vault dweller should know how to dick around with a bomb.

Have you even played that game? You can freely enter Megaton with bad intent (insulting sheriff, bad karma which he somehow recognizes) and he still doesn't take your weapon or armor. Obviously, bad design. Just compare it to what Obsidian did with entering casinos. Besides, Talons wouldn't need their weapons inside. Pulse charge would be enough. Even if sheriff for some reason decided to search them, he wouldn'd probably recognize what is it.

Like you said, bad design. Probably not what would happen in-universe, do you think Fallout 1's graphics just changed into F3's over time in-universe? Nope, it was the game design, Gameplay/Story Segregation. As for the casino's, their only smarter by a bit seeing as with the right know-how, you can sneak weapons that you wear on your hand in. What, does the Courier put his hand in his pocket or something? Must be a pretty wide pocket seeing how big some of the unarmed weapons can be. Clearly the casino's don't think to pat anyone down, because I'd love to know how the Courier can sneak in a Sawn-off shotgun, a Power Fist or a Compliance Regulator in.

Except that Megaton doesn't have 200 years - it was established by father of one of the denizens. The fact that they survived while wasteland is populated by hostile Talons with fat-men and missile launchers and sm behemots is truly a miracle. Though I'd rather bet on crappy writting. Just like Tenpenny Tower... which you pointed out yourself.

The same way Shady Sands surviving despite a clusterfuck of raider attacks, radscorpion invasions, loosing manpower and loosing some of their valuable crops was a "miracle".

And how do they pay for it? Do the caravaneers deliver food for a smile and a handjob? Because I didn't really see any source of income substaintial enough to keep the entire town on external supplies alone.

It's a hub. Wastelanders go there, buy supplies, get a drink, use the common house for sleep. It'd be like asking "how does a trucker restaurant on the side of a highway get the funds to buy more food?" Equally, what did Nipton in New Vegas have to offer for caravans? They didn't have anything and they were established as being assholes, why would they survive for so long?

They need not to die in the name of natural selection. They need to die in the name of logic. Almost everyone in DC should.

Because places like New Reno made more sense as such are allowed to live.

 

[Walpknut]

H3rwood1, nobody is saying that they haven't survived, everybody is saying that their survival makes 0 sense in universe and logically speaking.
Also New Reno was a shithole that mostly ran on drug manufacturing, prostitution and gambling, and it itself only worked because the envirorment of their region allowed for people to indulge in expensive vices. They also didn't build their town out of scrap in a crater with a bomb in the middle, they occupied old buildings and restored them to working condition. Not to mention that we do know where the caravans of the Core reagion get their supplies from, and the source of income of New Reno. The discussion is on New Reno is more from a thematic consistency stand point, not so much that it is a town build on air that has survived for 200 years without farming...

 

[H3rw00d1]

The discussion is on New Reno is more from a thematic consistency stand point, not so much that it is a town build on air that has survived for 200 years without farming...

Megaton gets it's food from caravans, which it pays for by being a hub. The caravans probably get their food from outside the CW, in land where farms would be able to exist and grow crops unlike the CW where the ground is too bad.

In the case of Nipton, it still survived 200 years despite not being a hub (I don't think it's one liquor store the town has would make it "hubish"), being assholes to pretty much everyone, and having no farms or brahmin. The only thing they got going is their lottery, which I highly doubt caravans would get paid with.

Nipton's survival for so long makes even less sense to me honestly and I can just not get my head around them.

 

[Walpknut]

First of all. you need to pay more attention to the game.
Nipton is directly stated to be a rather recent settlement, most of New Vegas towns are recent settlements. Nipton didn't survive 200 years, it was a town founded by convicts that mostly dealed in prostitution and similar things altho in smaller scale, and they survived off that because they are in the middle of the safest road to get to the Strip and back. Also, what? dud the Lottery? Did you pay any attention? that thing was set up by the Legion to drawn out their destruction. Do all Fallout 3 fans have such short attention spans?

Now back to Megaton, they are a hub, okay, a hub for what? Were are people going to that they need to go to Megaton? What services do they provide aside from 1 bar and 1 hooker? The caravans "probably get their food from outside" okay, from where? Why do they traverse such a shitty region with no economy to sell their supplies? And again, if they can't grow crops, raise animals or produce anythign for themselves, how have they survived other than for the fact that fallout 3's writters are idiots? Why do people stay in that region if they can't even grow crops? People left the Mojave and the only reason they are back there is because of the NCR's campaign bringing in Traders and travelers to exploit or rob, all of the original inhabitants of the Mojave were tribes, most of them nomadic so they weren't gonna stay for long, you know because when there is no resources for survival humans tend to look for other places, that's how we even got to cover so much territory as a species, the Mojave didn't have big settlements before, and Hopeville /The Divide similarly only grew because their trading with outside factions that also produced their own resources.