Dishonored 1 and 2

I thought the fact she was a woman with no legitimate husband and a child was part of the reason why she was considered to be too "weak" to rule. The sexism in the society seemed to be coded everywhere so Hiram feeling he should step in felt like it was tied to all the sexism, classicism, and racism in the game.

If you read about Corvo, he was framed for murdering Jessamine and they mention it was because he was a filthy Serkonan.

There's some good essays on the subject.

How the Empress was killed without fridging

Xenophobia and Dishonored

Gender roles in Dishonored

I thought the Empress was killed because
Hiram was afraid she'd find out what he had done, as well as her reluctance to let the poor die off.

Empress: "They're sick people, not criminals."
Hiram Burrows: "We've gone beyond that question, Your Majesty. They're-"
Empress: "They're my citizens, and we will save them from the plague if we can. All of them."
Hiram Burrows: "Very well."
Empress: "We will not speak of this again."

If I explain, then you will see, I am not at fault. My Poverty Eradication Plan was meant to bring prosperity to the City, to rid us of those scoundrels who waste their days in filth and drink, without homes or occupations other than to beg for the coin for which the rest of us toil.

And it was a simple plan – bring the disease bearing rats from the Pandyssian Continent, and let them take care of the poor for us. The plan worked perfectly. At first. But the rats – it was as if they sought to undo me. They hid from the catchers, and bred at a sickening rate. Soon it didn’t matter, rich, poor, all were falling sick.

And then people began to ask questions. The Empress assigned me to investigate whether the rats had been imported by a foreign power. I knew the truth would come out eventually. So there was no other way than to be rid of her, and take power myself. She had to die, you see. SHE HAD TO DIE.

Bringing about the death of an Empress is not an easy thing, but it gave me the chance to attack the plague with some real authority. Quarantines! Deportation of the sick! But there’s always some idiot woman searching for her wretched lost babe, or some sniveling workman searching for his missing wife. And then quarantine is broken!

But you can see how my plan should have worked? Would have worked! If everyone had just followed orders.

EDIT: 2 of your links don't work, but the fridging one was interesting.
 
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I don't think you need to spoiler that since Hiram being the villain is spoiled from the beginning and
his involvement in the plague
isn't really a twist, just further information we find out about what a complete asshat he is.

My interpretation of Hiram Burrows is that he's not only a psychopath in the clinical sense (in that he has no ability to actually empathize with anyone else) but he's also got a super case of OCD. He can't understand why people would want to rescue their wives, children, and other people quarantined to die behind his walls of light and stone. Also, he's an idiot since he doesn't seem to realize poor people are necessary for the rich to actually have stuff o their own--that is a blindingly poor grasp of economics on an Andrew Ryan level.

I do think he's meant to represent the hypothetical apex of Dunwall racism, classicism, and sexism, though. The Empress isn't shown to be a reformer per se, but she is a person who definitely empathizes with the working class and other nations more than other members of the Dunwall aristocracy. By contrast, we have the Pendletons and Lady Boyle who treat the poor as well as immigrants from other nations (even in the Empire) as vermin to be exterminated or enslaved.

Maybe it's reaching but Dishonored 2 makes text the subtext that Corvo is Emily's father and that she's a bastard even if the issue is complicated by the fact the reasons for bastaeds to be disinherited (i.e. you can't prove their parentage) is nonexistent due to the fact she draws her claim through her mother. It's never explicitly mentioned in the text but I think that might well have been a reason.

Ooops, on the essays:

Xenophobia and Dishonored: https://oracleturret.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/102/

Feminine Power in Dunwall: https://oracleturret.wordpress.com/...sdeeds-feminine-power-the-dunwall-underworld/

But Alas She Is a Woman: http://www.themarysue.com/but-alas-she-is-a-woman-how-dishonored-uses-gender-roles-to-tell-a-story/
 
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I don't think you need to spoiler that since Hiram being the villain is spoiled from the beginning and his involvement in the plague isn't really a twist, just further information we find out about what a complete asshat he is.

Eh, just being considerate I guess. It's more rewarding to discover things in game for yourself and I wouldn't want to spoil the experience. Even if it's established he's an antagonist at the start and you could reasonably think he was ultimately responsible, it's better to discover it later on after having experienced all the oppression and death that has been caused.

My interpretation of Hiram Burrows is that he's not only a psychopath in the clinical sense (in that he has no ability to actually empathize with anyone else) but he's also got a super case of OCD. He can't understand why people would want to rescue their wives, children, and other people quarantined to die behind his walls of light and stone. Also, he's an idiot since he doesn't seem to realize poor people are necessary for the rich to actually have stuff o their own--that is a blindingly poor grasp of economics on an Andrew Ryan level.

I think the Heart pretty much confirms Hiram does in fact have OCD.

Heart said:
He is driven by obsession, like a madness. Order, he must have all things, in order.


I do think he's meant to represent the hypothetical apex of Dunwall racism, classicism, and sexism, though. The Empress isn't shown to be a reformer per se, but she is a person who definitely empathizes with the working class and other nations more than other members of the Dunwall aristocracy. By contrast, we have the Pendletons and Lady Boyle who treat the poor as well as immigrants from other nations (even in the Empire) as vermin to be exterminated or enslaved.
Maybe it's reaching but Dishonored 2 makes text the subtext that Corvo is Emily's father and that she's a bastard even if the issue is complicated by the fact the reasons for bastaeds to be disinherited (i.e. you can't prove their parentage) is nonexistent due to the fact she draws her claim through her mother. It's never explicitly mentioned in the text but I think that might well have been a reason.


The Empress did cause a stir by having Corvo as her bodyguard, as you said he's Serkonan. I do like how there's graffiti reflection some citizens miss the Empress whilst others hated her.
 
Point taken on spoilers.

Honestly, I really enjoy speculating about games which bother to leave mysteries and ideas present in the text so you can draw inferences. It's part of the reason why I have been a Star Wars fan (and still am) for about thirty years. It's easy to read material in there which isn't (same for Fallout) but I do think Dishonored is one of those settings where the story is rich enough you can actually make hypotheses on all the stuff which is going on beneath the surface.

Albeit, a lot of the speculation of Dishonored 1 was confirmed in Dishonored 2.

I will say, I'm rather disappointed with Delilah Copperspoon as an antagonist and actually think she's an inferior villain to both Admiral Havelock and Hiram Burrows despite their rather one-dimensional portrayals. She's basically a classical Evil Queen/Witch and her goal to become God is more suited to a Final Fantasy villain than a Dishonored one. There's some decent backstory with the fact she was a prostitute who was sexually extorted to get her education plus the whole business with being a Bastard Princess but I think that only really works with Emily as the protagonist.

I also felt the non-lethal methods of disposal were weak except for lobotimizing a certain villain.
 
Point taken on spoilers.

Honestly, I really enjoy speculating about games which bother to leave mysteries and ideas present in the text so you can draw inferences. It's part of the reason why I have been a Star Wars fan (and still am) for about thirty years. It's easy to read material in there which isn't (same for Fallout) but I do think Dishonored is one of those settings where the story is rich enough you can actually make hypotheses on all the stuff which is going on beneath the surface.

Albeit, a lot of the speculation of Dishonored 1 was confirmed in Dishonored 2.

I will say, I'm rather disappointed with Delilah Copperspoon as an antagonist and actually think she's an inferior villain to both Admiral Havelock and Hiram Burrows despite their rather one-dimensional portrayals. She's basically a classical Evil Queen/Witch and her goal to become God is more suited to a Final Fantasy villain than a Dishonored one. There's some decent backstory with the fact she was a prostitute who was sexually extorted to get her education plus the whole business with being a Bastard Princess but I think that only really works with Emily as the protagonist.

I also felt the non-lethal methods of disposal were weak except for lobotimizing a certain villain.

I agree. Showing enough to establish the setting, but leaving out enough to allow us to speculate and fill the gaps is very satisfying.

When I first found out Delilah would be an antagonist again I felt it was a bit lazy. The Brigmore Witches have some cool abilities and all but we've already dealt with them in the Dishonored DLC and trapping Delilah in the painting should have been the end of it, unless of course you chose to kill her. Maybe it's explained in Dishonored 2, so I'll have to play it at some point before too much is spoiled for me.

I actually like Havelock's betrayal because he starts off with good intentions but the further the conspiracy goes the greater his and the other Loyalists' temptations are to grab power. If you read his diary as the missions go on you get hints he's not the same man as he was when the conspiracy began. If you were so close to achieving that kind of power and literally one man stood in your way, would you be able to resist it? I think some people in that situation might think that them taking control would ultimately be best for everyone.

I also like how in High Chaos the Loyalists fight each other and Havelock reasonably argues that Corvo is much worse, has the island's security beefed up to maximum and even goes as far as to hold Emily hostage, whilst in Low Chaos he seems guilt-ridden and resigned to his fate after poisoning his two co-conspirators, knowing that nothing will stop Corvo from reaching him and allows Corvo to take her room key.

Though he does attack if you let him finish talking then take the key, which is either a bug or just Havelock trying to catch you off-guard.

That and I love his fight theme, as short as it is.
 
2. Garrett lives in a clock tower like Batman? Why? Isn't he supposed to be the kind of thief who actually spends his money? He's not a Dark Avenger.
IIRC, Yahtzee, in his appropriately scathing review of Thief 2014, blasted the writers for turning Garrett into fantasy Batman and sandblasting every bit of like-able character from him. In fact, just hearing 2014 not-Garrett speak became eye-rollingly painful with each sentence that dribbled out of his mouth.

How did the writers come to the conclusion that the best way to make players like Garrett is to remove all of the traits that made classic players love true Garrett? I myself came to like Garrett immensely after the first levels of classic Thief (or rather The Metal Age since I played that one first) and regard him as a well-written character.
 
IIRC, Yahtzee, in his appropriately scathing review of Thief 2014, blasted the writers for turning Garrett into fantasy Batman and sandblasting every bit of like-able character from him. In fact, just hearing 2014 not-Garrett speak became eye-rollingly painful with each sentence that dribbled out of his mouth.

How did the writers come to the conclusion that the best way to make players like Garrett is to remove all of the traits that made classic players love true Garrett? I myself came to like Garrett immensely after the first levels of classic Thief (or rather The Metal Age since I played that one first) and regard him as a well-written character.

The game was also seriously hurt by the fact that it basically is a poor man's Dishonored. The plot is the city is being overwhelmed by a supernatural plague which is ravaging the city, the rich snooty nobles are oppressing the poor with technology, and an arrogant noble is planning an uprising through crime w/ you helping them. Except, it's a SHITTY version of Dishonored. Literally everything you can do in Thief is inferior to what you can do in Dishonored. You even have to rescue the plucky heroine you raised, except Erin is a murderous assassin versus an adorable moppet.

But yes, Garrett's appeal is he's a humorous working class hero despite his huge amount of success stealing riches. He's constantly mentioning paying rent and other concerns like getting paid and avoiding getting clobbered.

I drew a lot of inspiration from Thief when making my Supervillainy Saga books.
 
The game was also seriously hurt by the fact that it basically is a poor man's Dishonored. The plot is the city is being overwhelmed by a supernatural plague which is ravaging the city, the rich snooty nobles are oppressing the poor with technology, and an arrogant noble is planning an uprising through crime w/ you helping them. Except, it's a SHITTY version of Dishonored. Literally everything you can do in Thief is inferior to what you can do in Dishonored. You even have to rescue the plucky heroine you raised, except Erin is a murderous assassin versus an adorable moppet.

But yes, Garrett's appeal is he's a humorous working class hero despite his huge amount of success stealing riches. He's constantly mentioning paying rent and other concerns like getting paid and avoiding getting clobbered.

I drew a lot of inspiration from Thief when making my Supervillainy Saga books.

I recall reading an article with the devs of the Thief reboot addressing the similarities between Dishonored. They honestly thought they had a mole in their studio.
 
But yes, Garrett's appeal is he's a humorous working class hero despite his huge amount of success stealing riches. He's constantly mentioning paying rent and other concerns like getting paid and avoiding getting clobbered.

That's precisely the reason why I always loved Garrett as a character. He steals to "pay rent" essentially and lives life for himself and only himself, only being forced to "act" when the greater scheme of things becomes too unbearable to ignore (Constantine-Viktoria betraying, maiming and imprisoning him in Dark Project, or Truart hunting him down in Metal Age), and even then doing so in order to save himself first and foremost, not "the world".

With the Thief Reboot they tried to balance the game between the Deus Ex reboot (thus turning neo-Garrett into a generic crusader of the oppressed, that complains about "the rich stealing money from the poor" in the game's intro) and the success of Dishonored (completely ripping off its plot, as mentioned above), but failed on both accounts for multiple reasons.

I also read somewhere that they scrapped and re-did Thi4f's general plot and ending more than once during the game's long development cycle, but elements of each "re-doing" still found their way into the final product, and that might explain why it is such a mess plot-wise and ending-wise.
 
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It's honestly bizarre because Thief is a game which actually doesn't need a plot the same way Hitman doesn't really need a plot. Yes, you should probably have a plot but the game would have been fine if you'd done it Hitman style.

"There's these twelve douchebags who need to get robbed. Break into their mansions and steal their shit."

Except, instead of assassinating a target, the goal is to find a piece of unique loot somewhere in the level.

Hell, let me sketch out the game now:

"Garrett returns to the city after a few years spending all of his hard earned loot on wine, women, and song. Flat broke, he discovers a new Thieves' Guild controls much of the city as well as the new Baron. After getting in touch with his fence, he agrees to rob all the Guild's major pawns to humiliate them and weaken them. In the Third Act, he's betrayed and discovers the person who hired him is the new Baron who wanted to get out of their thumb. Garret must steal proof of the Baron's collusion with crime as the final level and escape the city."

Or just do Ocean's Eleven with one guy. :)
 
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But yes, Garrett's appeal is he's a humorous working class hero despite his huge amount of success stealing riches. He's constantly mentioning paying rent and other concerns like getting paid and avoiding getting clobbered.
That's a main reason why I think Garrett is well-written. Rather than coming across as some kind of bland rogue stereotype, he comes across as an actual person with real traits and flaws that has to deal with real problems any person in that world would face (rather than being some kind of Batman expy or some kind of cliched rogue). To me, Garrett made the world of Thief feel more alive through his quips and monologues throughout the game (along with the other immersion grabbing aspects of it like hand-drawn maps, large levels and intelligent guards).

That part in The Metal Age where his tone and manner of speaking changes when speaking to a dying Pagan spy in a Mechanist freezer in a respectful and compassionate manner cemented how human Garrett is and that was all done without a cutscene. That part cemented Garrett as one of my favourite protagonists in any game.
 


Dishonored is one of my favorite games of all time. It is an update of everything I loved about the Thief games but with an even richer steampunk setting. I loved the character of Corvo Attano, even if he couldn't speak, and was emotionally invested in his desire to save his daughter Emily. The dark and rat-infested Georgian nightmare of Dunwall combined the Black Death with the worst of the Industrial Revolution. In short, I was all for Dishonored 2 and eager to see what Arkane Studios would do with it.



Choose but choose wisely.

So, what do I think? Well, this is a difficult game to review because I'd very much like to give this game a 10 out of 10 but I can't do to the fact so many little things bug me. There's a lot of things from Dishonored 2 I wanted which the game gave me but there's also places where it zigged instead of zagged that lowered my overall impression of the game.

Overall, I have played the game twice so I don't see a reason not to purchase it but I don't think it's going to be remembered as a classic the way the original should be. Instead, I'm going to summarize my review as, "More Dishonored without much in the way of changes and about as good as the original's DLC content."

The premise is Empress Emily Kaldwin has been ruling the Empire for the better part of fifteen years. You can see the changes brought about by her reign in the fact there is now a greater egalitarianism in the Empire's city guards, composed now of women and people of color as well as men. However, she is less interested in ruling than late night adventures with her father. Unfortunately, her lack of interest in ruling has resulted in a conspiracy to frame her for executing her political enemies which seems like a strange charge given most rulers do that around the 18th century.



Delilah is a decent villain but feels rehashed.

Delilah Copperspoon, Big Bad of the The Knife of Dunwall as well as Brigmore Witches DLCs, has returned from the dead to menace the throne. Claiming to be Empress Jessamine's bastard sister, she uses clockwork soldiers and spells to overthrow Empress Emily in the span of a few minutes. You are then given a choice between playing Emily or Corvo again. While the game made an excellent choice of getting Stephen Russell to voice Corvo Attano (the one true Garrett from Thief), I think this game is "meant" to be played as Emily since it's all about her learning just how badly she misjudged her responsibilities as Empress.

The majority of the game takes place not in Dunwall but on the island of Serkonos, which is the equatorial island beneath the island of Gristol. It is a very different kind of location than the dark, dank, and cramped streets of Dunwall. This is something I have mixed feelings about because so much of the game takes place in a sunny tropical paradise, which seems an odd choice for a steampunk stealth game. While there's hints about the immense poverty and corruption in the city of Karnaka, you only rarely get to see it. Part of what made Dishonored such a great game was how much of a crapsack hellhole the place was. Here, a lot of the "dark avenger of the night" atmosphere is lost when you're wandering around in broad daylight wearing your skull mask.



Karnaka is a beautiful city. Marred, a bit by Disney trams.

The game's plot is basically a rehash of the original game with Corvo's particularly bad as you have to rescue Emily again and restore her to her rightful place. In Emily's path, at least you're restoring yourself but I think they could have done something a bit different. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't also reassuring the vision of the original game's DLCs too. None of this is done bad and it's all well-handled but it definitely feels like seconds rather than a new meal altogether. I wouldn't be upset if they decided to keep Emily and Corvo as the protagonists for the game series but I hope they can think of better material than another conspiracy against the throne (of which this is the FOURTH in two games).

What the game lacks in story, it makes up in level design, though. Despite my wish all of the levels took place at night, I very much enjoyed exploring the imaginative levels. The Clockwork Mansion is the stand-out level from the game with its parts moving and changing based on what levers are pushed. There's also a level which actually has you go back in time, to and fro, due to the assistance of the Outsider. I liked even the less imaginative levels with the Asylum and Conservatory both being extremely well-designed. All of them contain multiple pathways to reach your goal as well as numerous ways to eliminate your foes. Assassin's Creed could learn a lot from Dishonored just as it has learned from Assassins' Creed.



Emily has the power of the Darkness! Bwhahaha!

The characters in the game are a mixture of standouts and ehhh. The targets of Duke Abele (Vincent D'Onofrio) and Kirine Jindosh (John Gegenhuber) are great while Alexandria Hypatia (Jessica Straus) and Breanna Ashmore (Melendy Britt) feel like they're underused. Then there's targets like Liam Byrne and Paolo (Pedro Pascal) who can literally be skipped. I'm also less than impressed with how plain some of the Low Chaos eliminations are.

In the original game, the non-lethal takedowns of targets were genuinely sadistic and put to lie the idea you were being "merciful" by not killing them. Here, some of them just feel too tame with rare exceptions. I think the only ones which live up to the original game are lobotomizing a man with his own machine and replacing another with their body double as they're dragged off to an asylum. One non-lethal takedown, arguably the most important one, gives the target everything they could ever want and I hated it.



The Clockwork Soldiers are a great Thief homage.

I will give the game credit for having the levels respond to your actions in a lot of interesting ways. At one point, I murdered Delilah's lover, Breanna, in front of her during a magical communication. Delilah reacted to it in disgust in horror. Later, I redid the level and had her disabled before I had the option of calling Delilah up to taunt her about it. Similarly, in the time travel level, there's a number of opportunities to change history which I found to be quite cool. The game doesn't point them out, either, but you have to figure them out for yourself.

Gameplay wise, things have been tweaked rather than changed, if that makes sense. There are more non-lethal attacks and there's an option for a limited parkour-like movement which I never used because I was more interested in sneaking softly. There's also a lot more methods of non-lethally disabling opponents but a lot fewer sleep darts you can carry with you. So, you have to be somewhat smarter than just darting everyone like I ended up doing. Also, you need to find black markets to restore your stash rather than just refilling in-between missions.



The villains have a lot of cool relationships.

Still, I absolutely loved playing Empress Emily Kaldwin and think she's a great video game protagonist. She reminded me a great deal of Assassin's Creed: Syndicate's Evie in appearance but had a much more likable personality even if I think she overstated how important the Empire was to her. I didn't really buy she cared one way or the other about save basic human sympathy. Even so, I'd happily have her be the protagonist of the next game and wouldn't at all mind her father being one too, even if he's getting a bit long in the tooth.

So what did I think, overall? Well it was fun and perfectly serviceable as a video game. None of the flaws are particularly bad and I've had a lot of games I just couldn't finish lately but this has been one I've done twice. On the other hand, I think the game is very much a sequel. It's very much more of the same and doesn't do the dark, grimy, Industrial Revolution atmosphere of before. In short, it's basically a much lighter and softer version of a game I really enjoyed for how dark it was. Still, I'm glad I played it and think this is a game which isn't remotely disappointing, unlike most of 2016's offerings.

8/10
 
I can't recall you giving a game any other rating than 8/10.

Still, I might grab Dishonored 2 at some point when it's cheaper.
 
I can't recall you giving a game any other rating than 8/10.

Still, I might grab Dishonored 2 at some point when it's cheaper.
I've said it before: "Well, that hooker in Vegas gave me chlamydia and it took me an hour of drunken thrusting, but in the end I jizzed a bit. 9/10 I had my fun"
 
I mean when a game has problems and you even say they have problems you still give 8/10 because fun.

Also why not review games you don't like?

Why would I waste time talking about them? Let them fall into the bins of obscurity. Reviews take time and if I'm going to distract myself from my writing and real life, I feel like I should do that for works I actually enjoy. I try and think of myself as an indie alternative site to the people who are paid to review books and games.

Take, Army of Two, which I hated. I could talk all about how it was boring, poorly optimized, and had bland characters but what would be the point?

That's just my .02 at least.
 
Why would I waste time talking about them? Let them fall into the bins of obscurity. Reviews take time and if I'm going to distract myself from my writing and real life, I feel like I should do that for works I actually enjoy.

Alright fair enough I get that, but other people might value what your thoughts on that particular game are. You can point out what you feel makes it a bad game or at least why you dislike it and a game you dislike may still hold some positives. Fallout 4, as much as I can't stand it now, does still have a few good points to it. I don't think offering criticism (if it's constructive of course) is a waste of time.

Completely unrelated to the above, but did you know Carrie Fisher is in Dishonored 1 (albeit in a tiny role)?
 
Alright fair enough I get that, but other people might value what your thoughts on that particular game are. You can point out what you feel makes it a bad game or at least why you dislike it and a game you dislike may still hold some positives. Fallout 4, as much as I can't stand it now, does still have a few good points to it. I don't think offering criticism (if it's constructive of course) is a waste of time.

Yeah, that's part of the reason why I try and make sure I point out every criticism I can in games I do like. Even if I liked Mafia III (which I did until it started crashing repeatedly toward the end), I would definitely want to point out the repetitiveness and things which I think people would dislike. I have been known to get some criticism as a reviewer that I give high scores even to games I think which are flawed.

One example is V:TM: Bloodlines which is one of my all time favorite video games. The final third of the game is complete pants but the first 2 thirds are sublime. How does one rate that? It's an interesting question which is part of why I try to do my talking through text more than mere numbers.

Completely unrelated to the above, but did you know Carrie Fisher is in Dishonored 1 (albeit in a tiny role)?

I saw that on Reddit. It makes me even sadder but also makes me love Dishonored a bit more.
 
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